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To clarify, I BELIEVE this was a premeditated murder!

What I was attempting to postulate but seemingly failed to do :banghead: -

1. Did Dina come to the mansion with the intent to both interrogate and murder Rebecca? Did Dina have the rope and paint in her black bag? All with the sole intent to murder Rebecca even before she stepped foot in the mansion?
-OR-​

2. Did Dina come to the mansion to interrogate Rebecca and because of her uncontrollable rage caused by not getting the answers she wanted, the interrogation ended in murdering Rebecca? Was the rope and paint found inside the home rather than Dina bringing them in her black bag?

Either way, Rebecca's murder was premeditated. I attempted earlier to opine on Dina's intent before she entered the house. Next time I will be much clearer.

Have a good day everyone!
 
*Lash* said:
To clarify, I BELIEVE this was a premeditated murder!

What I was attempting to postulate but seemingly failed to do :banghead: -

1. Did Dina come to the mansion with the intent to both interrogate and murder Rebecca? Did Dina have the rope and paint in her black bag? All with the sole intent to murder Rebecca even before she stepped foot in the mansion?
-OR-​

2. Did Dina come to the mansion to interrogate Rebecca and because of her uncontrollable rage caused by not getting the answers she wanted, the interrogation ended in murdering Rebecca? Was the rope and paint found inside the home rather than Dina bringing them in her black bag?

Either way, Rebecca's murder was premeditated. I attempted earlier to opine on Dina's intent before she entered the house. Next time I will be much clearer.

Have a good day everyone!
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Adam did not tell anyone where he was going when he flew to Spreckels. I find that significant. JMO
 
time said:
I don't think it is always quite this simple. Although I do not think Dina went with any idea to simply interrogate Rebecca, she could have gone with all kinds of thoughts, working herself into a rage. After getting there, she could have physically assaulted her and knew then there was no way out... that could be when the planning began.

We have a pretty wide time period Anywhere from ~ 10 pm -3am. Too bad they didn't peg down time of death, but all of this could be why the crime scene clues don't add up. Rebecca could have been basically unconscious or tied up while further plans were made. After being physically assaulted, if she were left alive, somebody was going to jail or prison.

I'm not saying this is the scenario I would stand by, just that it's possible.

It doesn't take much to have premeditated murder.

One thing for sure, that message on the door doesn't speak to anyone writing it but Dina. And, was she careless, arrogant, or just plain ragefull when she wrote it. Or did she make Rebecca do it.
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Drunk, perhaps? What a stupid thing to do sober. I do not think for one minute that Dina is stupid.
 
Gilgamesh said:
Drunk, perhaps? What a stupid thing to do sober. I do not think for one minute that Dina is stupid.
Click to expand...

I think it's possible to be of average or above average intelligence and also have difficulty controlling impulses. Jumping on the hood of a moving vehicle while caring for your young son is another example.

Additionally, the message on the door served to punish the person reading it. It's an abusive gesture.

All of the above is just my opinion.
 
Gilgamesh said:
Adam did not tell anyone where he was going when he flew to Spreckels. I find that significant. JMO
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Has Adam's use of a sleeping aid been investigated? I seem to recall reports of individuals taking Ambien performing bizarre behaviors under its influence.
 
Tink56 said:
Has Adam's use of a sleeping aid been investigated? I seem to recall reports of individuals taking Ambien performing bizarre behaviors under its influence.
Click to expand...

Guess it will be now, ad nauseum. (Ambien defense aka Zombie defense...)
1)not valid if you are taking it illegally w/o an Rx 2) Have had bad experience, reaction or situation in which a prudent person would stop taking the drug. 3) Took it with alcohol or any illegal substance.....
as I stated earlier, ad nauseum.
IMO in my opinion, there is too much detail and time involved in the crime scene for that defense. Then again if one of the Three Musketeers, ("all for one, one for all") is going to draw the short straw...Paul Pfingst is probably still on retainer.
 
bourne said:
Either the murder was premeditated or it wasn't. There's no in-betweens. Either Dina came to the Spreckels mansion that night to murder Rebecca or she came to only interrogate.

The question is, would a reasonable person believe that Dina, in a sudden fit of rage, upon interrogating Rebecca, suddenly come up with a meticulously elaborate, detailed, step-by-step, torture/assault/hanging off a balcony scenario that so closely matches the falling off indoor balcony scenario of Dina's one and only son Max's?
Click to expand...

I agree with the first paragraph, you cannot have it both ways. What I don't understand is the convoluted and seemingly flawed logic behind the second paragraph.

What you appear to be saying, and please elaborate and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it is unreasonable to believe that Dina could've gone to the house intending only to interrogate Rebecca. Unreasonable to belive that she impulsively sneaked into the house only after Rebecca failed to come to the door because she was in the shower. Unreasonable to believe that Dina whacked Rebecca over the head in a fit of anger when Rebecca tried to run for the phone she had left in the murder room before her shower. Unreasonable to believe that she then could've spent from two to possibly as many as five hours thinking about how best to dispose of the body, only to arrive at the conclusion that the best she could do at that time was to make it look like a suicide. How does that constitute planning and premeditation?
 
IQuestion said:
Guess it will be now, ad nauseum. (Ambien defense aka Zombie defense...)
1)not valid if you are taking it illegally w/o an Rx 2) Have had bad experience, reaction or situation in which a prudent person would stop taking the drug. 3) Took it with alcohol or any illegal substance.....
as I stated earlier, ad nauseum.
IMO in my opinion, there is too much detail and time involved in the crime scene for that defense. Then again if one of the Three Musketeers, ("all for one, one for all") is going to draw the short straw...Paul Pfingst is probably still on retainer.
Click to expand...

IQuestion, do you know you give a lot of good investigative info but that sometimes you seem to write in code? lol

The only times I've heard of the Ambien "Zombie" defense is for DWI cases and some drivers were able to escape conviction with this defense.

I very much doubt, as you do, that the elaborate, detailed, organized manner in which Rebecca was tortured and killed -- her being bound wrists and ankles, t-shirt wrapped 3x stuffed down her throat, noose, rope tied to bed, etc. plus the enormous amount of effort in staging the crime scene -- with the taunting message aimed at Jonah painted on the bedroom door, etc. -- would allow even the possibility of an Ambien defense to be used by the defendants in Rebecca's case.

If and when this case gets reopened, reinvestigated and there's a Murder One conviction, "Sayonara" :seeya: to Dina et al. behind bars. :jail: Justice and good riddance.
 
Betty P said:
Yes, both knives were confirmed as coming from the mansion kitchen. The rope is still questionable. They only stated there was a space on a shelf in the garage where it could have been stored.
Click to expand...

What about the paintbrushes and paint tubes? Did LE ever say where these items came from? As I recall, according to an insider, they're NOT Rebecca's...
 
bourne said:
IQuestion, do you know you give a lot of good investigative info but that sometimes you seem to write in code? lol
Ma cheri, Moi? Speaking in code...yep, I had to laugh with ya' kiddo. I wish I had the excuse of English being my second language....well technically it is..but that is a long story.[COLOR="Red"][/COLOR]
The only times I've heard of the Ambien "Zombie" defense is for DWI cases and some drivers were able to escape conviction with this defense.
No one should ever "escape" conviction, but should it be a mitigating circumstance in their sentencing, IMO. For instance the famous golfer who said he took Ambien, then got in an argument with his wife, and crashed his car just a few yards from his home.....DON'T AMBIEN AND DRIVE!!I very much doubt, as you do, that the elaborate, detailed, organized manner in which Rebecca was tortured and killed -- her being bound wrists and ankles, t-shirt wrapped 3x stuffed down her throat, noose, rope tied to bed, etc. plus the enormous amount of effort in staging the crime scene -- with the taunting message aimed at Jonah painted on the bedroom door, etc. -- would allow even the possibility of an Ambien defense to be used by the defendants in Rebecca's case.
BOURNE, agreed...the defense will be a shocker, though.
If and when this case gets reopened, reinvestigated and there's a Murder One conviction, "Sayonara" :seeya: to Dina et al. behind bars. :jail: Justice and good riddance.
Click to expand...
Do you think this is a "Crime de deux ou trois?" I think there had to be at least one accomplice, too. At the end of each day, I still see a grieving Mother, who for a brief 6 years thought she was the luckiest, in all the universes. Losing a child, especially so young...how can I not have some sadness for her loss? Inside, I don't want her to be there, but no reason for a passerby to lie about WHO/WHEN/WHERE/WHAT he saw, either.
 
IQuestion said:
Do you think this is a "Crime de deux ou trois?" I think there had to be at least one accomplice, too. At the end of each day, I still see a grieving Mother, who for a brief 6 years thought she was the luckiest, in all the universes. Losing a child, especially so young...how can I not have some sadness for her loss? Inside, I don't want her to be there, but no reason for a passerby to lie about WHO/WHEN/WHERE/WHAT he saw, either.
Click to expand...

Kiddo, my view has always been that there were definitely more than one murderer. Dina the psycho ex-wife was definitely one of them.

I've said this before in other threads, one can have sympathy and great compassion for someone's experiences, e.g., a parent who lost a child, but yet abhor the heinous, depraved actions of this person as a result of the loss.
 
bourne said:
Hey Time, I think you posted in the wrong thread. lol

Isn't this the Dr. Autumn Marie Klein case? Glad to hear her sick husband is finally getting arrested for poisoning her. Another psycho caught. One down. I can't wait till Zahau case gets reopened and the sick murderers of Rebecca go to prison for life. Oh wait, isn't there the death penalty in CA? Can't wait...
Click to expand...

Ack, yes I did... I thought I deleted them all. It is about Klein and her husband getting arrest for the cyanide poisoning.
 
IQuestion said:
as+DS

It took me a long time to find this interview...http://www.azfamily.com/good-mornin...ai-seeks-answers-in-sons-death-166125956.html (and y'all know I really take a lot of time, watching and looking for details)
Gilgamesh...you are a friggin' genius. IMO that combination AS+DS is the most likely...especially if you watch the aforementioned link. @ 1min 26 seconds the interview asks DS a very "point blank" question, "Do you believe it was a suicide?" She totally avoids the entire question and says she was "focusing" on other issues. "to lose a sister and daughter is horrible, just like I know it is horrible to lose a son"!!!![/B] Every interview, written or video, she can NEVER say suicide...IT IS ALWAYS...I KNOW WHAT IT IS TO LOSE A CHILD, TOO.
It goes without saying, the loss of your beautiful young child is devastating...and for that reason I can understand launching an independent investigation. She deserves the truth.
But, she is the ONLY one who never jumps in with "Yes, absolutely!" And of course I have always wondered about the end of the Dr. Phil interview, where he lowers his head (the skeptical stare attached) and basically ends it with, "Do you have anything else you want to add?" I know Dr. P made every effort to be impartial, but....that was one of the best "poker stares" ever!
Click to expand...


Hmmm... Interesting video indeed... Why would I consistently avoid answering the question if it was me? Perhaps because I was aware and/or afraid that my body language might give me away while answering the questions and/or aware of readily available voice stress analysis software and techniques.

On a related note, do you or anyone else know where I can find the actual photos of the banister depicted in the video with the unexplained damage allegedly caused by the scooter? It's extremely time consuming to find all these things yourself and I'd be truly grateful if someone could please post them or point me in their direction.

:please:
 
IQuestion said:
as+DS

It took me a long time to find this interview...http://www.azfamily.com/good-mornin...ai-seeks-answers-in-sons-death-166125956.html (and y'all know I really take a lot of time, watching and looking for details)
Gilgamesh...you are a friggin' genius. IMO that combination AS+DS is the most likely...especially if you watch the aforementioned link. @ 1min 26 seconds the interview asks DS a very "point blank" question, "Do you believe it was a suicide?" She totally avoids the entire question and says she was "focusing" on other issues. "to lose a sister and daughter is horrible, just like I know it is horrible to lose a son"!!!![/B] Every interview, written or video, she can NEVER say suicide...IT IS ALWAYS...I KNOW WHAT IT IS TO LOSE A CHILD, TOO.
It goes without saying, the loss of your beautiful young child is devastating...and for that reason I can understand launching an independent investigation. She deserves the truth.
But, she is the ONLY one who never jumps in with "Yes, absolutely!" And of course I have always wondered about the end of the Dr. Phil interview, where he lowers his head (the skeptical stare attached) and basically ends it with, "Do you have anything else you want to add?" I know Dr. P made every effort to be impartial, but....that was one of the best "poker stares" ever!
Click to expand...



BTW, when he says "daughter" at 3:07, Nina immediately turns to look at the anchorwoman as if expecting a reaction or a follow-up question; but it goes completely unnoticed.

And, while on the subject, was XZ's father really 66 when she was born? His obituary states that he was born in 1932 if I remember correctly. How much younger is his wife?

Please forgive me if you don't feel that the nature of their relationship is relevant. I happen to think that it could be, at least in Maxie's case; and what self-respecting investigator working Rebecca's case would not also want to know as much as possible about Maxie's case - and vice versa?

:truce:
 
IQuestion said:
I was reading comments @ LATimes article that was referenced on this forum early yesterday. One "harried" poster kept referring to the remake of a movie called the Housemaid, made in South Korea. For the record...it is a movie that is our American equivalent of FATAL ATTRACTION. (IE Successful business man messes around/ with disasterous outcome) If one was doing business in South Korea during the time it came out on screen or viewed it in their South Korean hotel room....you couldn't miss it! http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00950664 All I am saying, is that many, many people could have purchased that video...especially if they had business travel in South Korea or the pacific rim. I own the movie Fatal Attraction, but it doesn't mean my life or death is a reflection of one movie found on a book shelf. The thought is preposterous!
And LASH, as always...you complete my thoughts. There was no mental health history for RZ...thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...

On this one I beg to differ, Detective. The subtitled version of the movie was released in the US in early 2011. IMO, it was purchased in San Diego that summer. But thank you for reminding me that I have yet to watch it in English (subtitled). BTW, watching it in Korean gave me the chills. Not sure why yet. But it was the only version I could hastily find that night.
 
STS-135 said:
Hmmm... Interesting video indeed... Why would I consistently avoid answering the question if it was me? Perhaps because I was aware and/or afraid that my body language might give me away while answering the questions and/or aware of readily available voice stress analysis software and techniques.

On a related note, do you or anyone else know where I can find the actual photos of the banister depicted in the video with the unexplained damage allegedly caused by the scooter? It's extremely time consuming to find all these things yourself and I'd be truly grateful if someone could please post them or point me in their direction.

:please:
Click to expand...

Hi STS-135!

BBM - you can find the photos and discussion in this thread

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188466"]Max's Scooter - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
STS-135 said:
BTW, when he says "daughter" at 3:07, Nina immediately turns to look at the anchorwoman as if expecting a reaction or a follow-up question; but it goes completely unnoticed.

And, while on the subject, was XZ's father really 66 when she was born? His obituary states that he was born in 1932 if I remember correctly. How much younger is his wife?

Please forgive me if you don't feel that the nature of their relationship is relevant. I happen to think that it could be, at least in Maxie's case; and what self-respecting investigator working Rebecca's case would not also want to know as much as possible about Maxie's case - and vice versa?

:truce:
Click to expand...

BBM - No apology needed and it has nothing to do with your opinion, here at Websleuths it is against TOS to sleuth minors. Many posters believe BOTH cases should be reopened.
 
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