The case for murder

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it's almost like she brought a hit man with her...who ever killed her ( if this was a murder) I feel they enjoyed it.

I agree with you here. My best guess is there was premeditation to harm Becky or at the very least interrogate her. And sadly, there does seem to be some level of enjoyment at humiliating her, and reducing her to "garbage". Someone who enjoys degradation I imagine.

My guess is that the people staying at the G Street house that night know much more about the circumstances that Tuesday day and evening leading up to and after Dina (or Nina) were seen late at night suspiciously stalking the Spreckles grounds. I hope these people realize that by keeping quiet they too are comitting a crime that could land them in prison. We know Nina has lied to the police Day 1 by insinuating to law enforcement that her son was incapable of being alone for her to go to the crime lab to give DNA samples. This not only was an outright lie, there is a incredible level of arrogance to it. Her son is an adult, has a job, drives and goes to college: Really? He suddenly can't be alone? I think she didn't want him to be alone with police in case they asked him some questions.
 
I agree with you here. My best guess is there was premeditation to harm Becky or at the very least interrogate her. And sadly, there does seem to be some level of enjoyment at humiliating her, and reducing her to "garbage". Someone who enjoys degradation I imagine.

My guess is that the people staying at the G Street house that night know much more about the circumstances that Tuesday day and evening leading up to and after Dina (or Nina) were seen late at night suspiciously stalking the Spreckles grounds. I hope these people realize that by keeping quiet they too are comitting a crime that could land them in prison. We know Nina has lied to the police Day 1 by insinuating to law enforcement that her son was incapable of being alone for her to go to the crime lab to give DNA samples. This not only was an outright lie, there is a incredible level of arrogance to it. Her son is an adult, has a job, drives and goes to college: Really? He suddenly can't be alone? I think she didn't want him to be alone with police in case they asked him some questions.

BBM. Well said.
 
I agree with you here. My best guess is there was premeditation to harm Becky or at the very least interrogate her. And sadly, there does seem to be some level of enjoyment at humiliating her, and reducing her to "garbage". Someone who enjoys degradation I imagine.

My guess is that the people staying at the G Street house that night know much more about the circumstances that Tuesday day and evening leading up to and after Dina (or Nina) were seen late at night suspiciously stalking the Spreckles grounds. I hope these people realize that by keeping quiet they too are comitting a crime that could land them in prison. We know Nina has lied to the police Day 1 by insinuating to law enforcement that her son was incapable of being alone for her to go to the crime lab to give DNA samples. This not only was an outright lie, there is a incredible level of arrogance to it. Her son is an adult, has a job, drives and goes to college: Really? He suddenly can't be alone? I think she didn't want him to be alone with police in case they asked him some questions.

As always, very LOGICAL Mr. Spock!
 
I agree with you here. My best guess is there was premeditation to harm Becky or at the very least interrogate her. And sadly, there does seem to be some level of enjoyment at humiliating her, and reducing her to "garbage". Someone who enjoys degradation I imagine.

My guess is that the people staying at the G Street house that night know much more about the circumstances that Tuesday day and evening leading up to and after Dina (or Nina) were seen late at night suspiciously stalking the Spreckles grounds. I hope these people realize that by keeping quiet they too are comitting a crime that could land them in prison. We know Nina has lied to the police Day 1 by insinuating to law enforcement that her son was incapable of being alone for her to go to the crime lab to give DNA samples. This not only was an outright lie, there is a incredible level of arrogance to it. Her son is an adult, has a job, drives and goes to college: Really? He suddenly can't be alone? I think she didn't want him to be alone with police in case they asked him some questions.

I agree. There are only two people whom I can think of who would have the intensity of hate and jealousy towards Becky to want to publicly flog and degrade Becky -- in her last day of life and continuing to do so in death.

Where is Dina's then bf nowadays? Is he in hiding, along with his daughter who had posted online on 7/11/2011 that Max was in a coma but they were still holding out hope for his survival?
 
I agree. There are only two people whom I can think of who would have the intensity of hate and jealousy towards Becky to want to publicly flog and degrade Becky -- in her last day of life and continuing to do so in death.

Where is Dina's then bf nowadays? Is he in hiding, along with his daughter who had posted online on 7/11/2011 that Max was in a coma but they were still holding out hope for his survival?

No idea where the "then" bf is.....but the daughter is still at PCDS..........
 
Prayers that RZ & MS's family have peace tonight. I'm thinking about them both on Christmas Eve (I realize I'm a week or so late for MS' holiday, but thinking of him just the same).

I know their families are hurting without them.

They deserve justice.

It's time to reopen these cases so all these wounds can be healed.

:heartbeat: :heartbeat:

Also--to all the WSer's out there with people you never knew but care about anyway, on your minds and in your hearts tonight :heartbeat: :heartbeat:
 
Today being Christmas, my thoughts went to JonBenet Ramsey, the beautiful 6 year old girl killed inside her home on Christmas day 16 years ago. I recently read "Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?" by James Kolar, the former lead investigator in the case (I strongly recommend this book!!), and also listened to his interview with Tricia here at WS this past Sunday night. If interested in the case and Kolar's book, here's the link to the WS thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179143"]James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

The parallels between Rebecca's case and JonBenet's case are mind boggling, but won't go into that at the moment. Just wanted to share this screen shot from video footage taken at the JonBenet crime scene from the Daily Beast article:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

Yes, there is an elephant in the room, but what is that can of Dr. Pepper doing there? Sorry, not wanting to diverge from the topic by inserting another case. But the similarities are worth noting... (will list them later)

drpepper_zps1855cc6f.jpg
 
Today being Christmas, my thoughts went to JonBenet Ramsey, the beautiful 6 year old girl killed inside her home on Christmas day 16 years ago. I recently read "Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?" by James Kolar, the former lead investigator in the case (I strongly recommend this book!!), and also listened to his interview with Tricia here at WS this past Sunday night. If interested in the case and Kolar's book, here's the link to the WS thread:
James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The parallels between Rebecca's case and JonBenet's case are mind boggling, but won't go into that at the moment. Just wanted to share this screen shot from video footage taken at the JonBenet crime scene from the Daily Beast article:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

Yes, there is an elephant in the room, but what is that can of Dr. Pepper doing there? Sorry, not wanting to diverge from the topic by inserting another case. But the similarities are worth noting... (will list them later)

drpepper_zps1855cc6f.jpg


I read the James Kolar book. While I found it to be too dry and wordy, the parallels between the power that the ( wealthy) Ramseys had and the (wealthy) Shacknai had were mind boggling. Each HAD, and each USED their political connections and their wealth to direct the investigation away from themselves. For that reason alone, the book was worth reading.
 
No, Becky's journal did NOT "showed JS was never that into her". All we have is one or two paragraphs in her journal speaking of one isolated incident. That doesn't mean JS was not into her or that she believed he wasn't into her. Don't exaggerate.

What we do know is that Becky did consider leaving JS, that she felt she was not being treated with the kind of respect she'd like and expect from a man. That is all we know. Not that "JS was NEVER that into her".

If JS thought Becky suffocated Max, he would have publicly joined Dina on Dina's continual vengeful PR campaign about Max's assault and homicide against Becky. The fact is, Js, did NOT. That speaks volume that he did not believe Dina's crazy, hateful, unsubstantiated talk in an effort to slander posthumously an innocent woman.

I don't think her journal only talked about an isolated incident. Her journal clearly showed JS did not love her as much she hoped. She wrote "There is a fire within my heart that rages with such burning desire...to have my hands held in two loving hands as i am told how much I am loved... someone so speical....these will never come true as long as I'm with him...Is this the curse for leaving Evan (fake name for Neil in the book)? Is this why I feel this incredible emptiness?"

Maybe I misused the word "that into her". I meant to say JS never loved her enough to consider marrying her. This was shown in her journal which said she had no idea whether they would ever be engaged, let alone getting married. RZ's sister in a TV interview also echoed this. Also, for RZ's death, JS only has two possibilities. He was either involved or not involved. If he was involved, there really is no point to discuss how much he loved RZ. If he was not invovled, the fact he did not even stop by his house for one minute after hearing about her death spoke volume of how much RZ weighed in his heart.

Anyway, my opinion is if AS was involved in the murder, JS must be. Without JS' approval, AS in a million years would never dare to harm his brother's girlfriend while JS stayed at his dying son's hospital bed. He also would not work with his brother's estranged ex wife Dina behind JS's back. And based on AS's behavior, it's very possible he's invovled. He said he cut down Rebecca from the rope. Why did he not leave any finger prints and hand print on the knife, rope, and RZ's body? Did he search for a pair of surgical gloves before he cut her down? This question was raised by RZ's sister and attorney too. His job as a tub boat captain means he must be familiar with the boating knots found on RZ. His strange comment of his bedside manner and his inconclusive lie detection test are all very suspicous.

True. JS did not join DS's continual vengeful PR campaign about Max's assault and homicide against Becky. To me, this does not speak anything about his opinion on MS's death. If he believed RZ had something to do with MS's death and ordered RZ's murder, he already got the justice he thought due to MS. Why would he want to campaign against RZ to make the whole world know he had a motive to kill RZ?

MOO.
 
There appears to be two separate cover ups. One is the cover up of the murder at the crime scene. The second is the cover up done by LE.

The first cover-up, IMO, is either done by the twins or with Adam, though I tend towards Adam not being involved as he doesn't appear smart enough to not divulge the truth, no matter what remunerations he was given.

The second cover-up by LE was initiated by Dina likely having shown up on Wed morn at crime scene behind crime barricade tapes, setting the false story into motion that Becky killed her son and out of guilt killed herself. Adam's "she hung herself" certainly added to that scenario. Then Jonah stepping in with Pfingst as Adam's lawyer sealed the deal. Jonah wanted no bad PR and he paid Pfingst to close down the investigation ASAP. But I don't believe Jonah premeditated Becky's murder. IDK if he were involved with crime scene cover-up but he may have inadvertently set into motion LE's cover-up of Becky's homicide.

Interesting. Maybe in someways three cover ups involving many people.
1. MS's accident
2. Rz 's - crime scene
3. LE 's role possible tampering conflict of interest and or misconduct

JMO...that would be 3 separate RE-investigations to launch. :banghead:
 
I don't think her journal only talked about an isolated incident. Her journal clearly showed JS did not love her as much she hoped. She wrote "There is a fire within my heart that rages with such burning desire...to have my hands held in two loving hands as i am told how much I am loved... someone so speical....these will never come true as long as I'm with him...Is this the curse for leaving Evan (fake name for Neil in the book)? Is this why I feel this incredible emptiness?"

Maybe I misused the word "that into her". I meant to say JS never loved her enough to consider marrying her. This was shown in her journal which said she had no idea whether they would ever be engaged, let alone getting married. RZ's sister in a TV interview also echoed this. Also, for RZ's death, JS only has two possibilities. He was either involved or not involved. If he was involved, there really is no point to discuss how much he loved RZ. If he was not invovled, the fact he did not even stop by his house for one minute after hearing about her death spoke volume of how much RZ weighed in his heart.

Anyway, my opinion is if AS was involved in the murder, JS must be. Without JS' approval, AS in a million years would never dare to harm his brother's girlfriend while JS stayed at his dying son's hospital bed. He also would not work with his brother's estranged ex wife Dina behind JS's back. And based on AS's behavior, it's very possible he's invovled. He said he cut down Rebecca from the rope. Why did he not leave any finger prints and hand print on the knife, rope, and RZ's body? Did he search for a pair of surgical gloves before he cut her down? This question was raised by RZ's sister and attorney too. His job as a tub boat captain means he must be familiar with the boating knots found on RZ. His strange comment of his bedside manner and his inconclusive lie detection test are all very suspicous.

True. JS did not join DS's continual vengeful PR campaign about Max's assault and homicide against Becky. To me, this does not speak anything about his opinion on MS's death. If he believed RZ had something to do with MS's death and ordered RZ's murder, he already got the justice he thought due to MS. Why would he want to campaign against RZ to make the whole world know he had a motive to kill RZ?

MOO.

Thanks for explaining your view. But even as you say now, that Becky wrote that Jonah did not love her as much as she hoped, does not mean he NEVER loved her. That is what you originally wrote, and that was what I found lacking in evidence and exaggerated. The word you overstated was "NEVER", not the phrase "that into her".

We don't know that Jonah never intended to marry her either. Again from one or two excerpts of Becky's journal entries from Ann Rule's book, you cannot infer that. Maybe on that particular day Becky questioned whether Jonah was right for her, whether he was worthy of her hand in marriage. Maybe in other journal entries, she spoke of how happy she was with Jonah -- how Jonah was kind and loving and supportive of her, how she couldn't wait to marry him. We just don't know because her entire journal was not published for us to read. Ann Rule only chose to publish one or two short blurbs from Becky's journal. So we just don't know enough to draw solid conclusions about Becky and Jonah's relationship.

Also, there have been MSM articles that stated that Becky and/or Jonah's friends said Jonah gave Becky an engagement ring, and that Becky even wore that lovely engagement ring. For all intents and purposes, that sounds like he intended to marry her at some point in their relationship.

I think we can all relate to inequitable romantic relationships -- where one partner feels more for the other. Relationships are not always 50/50, and partners within relationships do not love equally or in the same way. Some partners need or expect more from the other; some partners are more independent and need/expect less, etc. Relationships are complex and multifaceted, depending on the individuals and the circumstances.

I agree that either Jonah was involved in her murder or he wasn't. I lean towards his non-involvement. But just because he did not stop by the mansion to get a cheap thrill looking at her dead body (as opposed to a murdering someone who looked like Dina who just had to show up and ogle at Becky's dead body that Wed morning) doesn't mean he didn't love her.

Some people are the squeamish type who don't want to look at someone they love who's now a cold, dead, naked body having been strung up in a noose in their own home. I know I'm not squeamish and yet, I am certain I would not drive home after being in the hospital with a child braindead in ICU to see another loved one whom I was told by someone I trusted -- i.e., Jonah was told by his brother Adam whose veracity he had no reason to doubt at the time -- that the person I loved and was hoping to marry -- is now nude and had hung herself.

Additionally, after Jonah had called Pfingst to act as defense lawyer to Adam, Pfingst and Jonah's PR firm likely instructed Jonah to stay as far away from the crime scene as possible. And that's what Jonah did. So no, Jonah not driving home to see Becky's dead body for himself does not mean he never loved or intended to marry her.

What is most apparent in Jonah's not joining forces with Dina in her continual harangue of a dead woman post-mortem is that he wants Dina out of his life permanently. He wants nothing to do with Dina. Period. If Jonah believed Dina's diatribe about Becky or her younger sis XZ harming his little boy Max, don't you think he would turn over every stone to find out if that were the case? I'd think irrespective of whether he had been involved in Becky's murder, he'd still want to know the truth about his little boy being "assaulted" and possibly being "thrown over the balcony" in a "homicidal rage" as is alleged in Dina's "expert reports". After all, Max was his son too. What parent doesn't want to know the truth about the cause of their son's death, unless the parent believes in his heart that his son's death was an accident? So I believe Jonah believes Max's death was a tragic accident, and that Becky was not responsible for Max's accident.
 
Today being Christmas, my thoughts went to JonBenet Ramsey, the beautiful 6 year old girl killed inside her home on Christmas day 16 years ago. I recently read "Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?" by James Kolar, the former lead investigator in the case (I strongly recommend this book!!), and also listened to his interview with Tricia here at WS this past Sunday night. If interested in the case and Kolar's book, here's the link to the WS thread:
James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The parallels between Rebecca's case and JonBenet's case are mind boggling, but won't go into that at the moment. Just wanted to share this screen shot from video footage taken at the JonBenet crime scene from the Daily Beast article:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

Yes, there is an elephant in the room, but what is that can of Dr. Pepper doing there? Sorry, not wanting to diverge from the topic by inserting another case. But the similarities are worth noting... (will list them later)

drpepper_zps1855cc6f.jpg

Would like to know what your take on the parallels between the two cases are.
 
bourne said:
Also, there have been MSM articles that stated that Becky and/or Jonah's friends said Jonah gave Becky an engagement ring, and that Becky even wore that lovely engagement ring. For all intents and purposes, that sounds like he intended to marry her at some point in their relationship.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. RZ's sister Mary specifically refuted the engagement rumor in a TV interview. RZ was not engaged.
 
Thank you for sharing your opinion. RZ's sister Mary specifically refuted the engagement rumor in a TV interview. RZ was not engaged.

I agree......the "engagement" was nothing but PR SPIN to make their relationship look like something it wasn't.
 
I agree......the "engagement" was nothing but PR SPIN to make their relationship look like something it wasn't.

Hi Ip
What do you mean??? more than ________ but definitely more than DS and NR seem to marginalize her as a "babysitter" though?

Would JS have made more of their relationship to sound more committed and harmonious than it was at the time? as part of a PR cover?

OT hey speaking of PR cover....you know site that shall not be named?
I noticed that they think I am " somebody" to " find out about" hahahaaaaa
Maybe I 've struck a chord- but oops, alas I am definitely just me-
a concerned citizen looking out for RZ even if I'm in CT.
 
Thank you for sharing your opinion. RZ's sister Mary specifically refuted the engagement rumor in a TV interview. RZ was not engaged.

"A friend revealed that he was planning on proposing to her.

The friend, who is close to Mr Shacknai, told Radar: 'It was a very serious relationship. There was a lot of love there.

'Jonah had every intention of proposing to Rebecca. Jonah wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.''


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Shacknais-son-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahau.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahaus-memorial-service.html
 
I agree......the "engagement" was nothing but PR SPIN to make their relationship look like something it wasn't.

I assume you're talking about Jonah (and not Dina's) PR? Why do you think they would spin Jonah's relationship like that? For what purpose?

We know Dina's PR evidently "spinned" the info the opposite direction: that Becky was nothing more than a golddigging babysitter.
 
I assume you're talking about Jonah (and not Dina's) PR? Why do you think they would spin Jonah's relationship like that? For what purpose?

We know Dina's PR evidently "spinned" the info the opposite direction: that Becky was nothing more than a golddigging babysitter.

I think that it is kind of obvious why Jonah's relationship would be spun: so that the general public would not consider him a suspect because he loved her so much that he had intended to propose to her......Remember, perception (of the public) is extremely important to Jonah........and to many, perception becomes reality.
 
"A friend revealed that he was planning on proposing to her.

The friend, who is close to Mr Shacknai, told Radar: 'It was a very serious relationship. There was a lot of love there.

'Jonah had every intention of proposing to Rebecca. Jonah wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.''


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Shacknais-son-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahau.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahaus-memorial-service.html
Hi bourne ~ I'd bet you a fiver that "that friend" is a doctor who is a neighbor of JS' in AZ, and also happened to have arrived in San Diego - Coronado the day before RZ met her violent suspicious death. IMO painting a picture that JS was devoted and madly in love with RZ would make it seem close to impossible to fathom that he could be directly or indirectly involved in her murder, at least in the public's eye. Mr. Machiavelli himself..

As to my thoughts on parallels between JonBenet and RZ case, I will get back to you on that ASAP. Am up to my ears in work at the moment...
 
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