The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Good question. I used to think JR didn't have the time to groom him enough. I did read somewhere that Patsy's dad used to babysit them. If it's true he possibly abused Patsy's sister's, then I could see the cycle continuing. JMOO

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

That also leaves a whole other level to all of this, if PR's father was molesting one or both of JBR and BR..
It gives JR to feel all "guilty about not protecting" his kids, and PR may have compartmentalized her own sexual abuse per her father and for all kinds of possible reasons needed to "sweep that under the rug"..:gaah:
 
Can someone refresh my memory as to when and to whom JAR said the killer should be forgiven? That's a pretty clear statement to me.
 
That also leaves a whole other level to all of this, if PR's father was molesting one or both of JBR and BR..
It gives JR to feel all "guilty about not protecting" his kids, and PR may have compartmentalized her own sexual abuse per her father and for all kinds of possible reasons needed to "sweep that under the rug"..:gaah:
Which might also explain Patsy's mamas "only molested a little" comment. Sounds like a lot of sweeping under the rug occurred. MOO

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
ThinkHard,
An alternative to someone assaulting BR is two things: peer group pressure, i.e. other older boys, and an attachment disorder brought on by PR simply neglecting him, in favor of JonBenet.

With JR away at work and PR concentrating on JonBenet, BR was left to his own devices, I'll just mention sleepovers and leave it at that.

.

I'm not sure I understand what you're implying? How would a peer group have pressured him to molest his sister?

If you mean older boys exposing him to innapropriate materials, that is still considered sexual abuse.

Lastly I don't see how you're connecting an attachment disorder to sexually aggressive behavior in a small child, targeted at his sister.

There very well could be an attachment disorder, but you still need to combine that with some kind of exposure.
 
Thanks to Jonjay for posting this excerpt from Kolar's book


Foreign Faction, pp 367-370
The second important event to occur that winter involved additional discoveries that were related to the behavioral symptoms of a childhood disorder.
While working on the written case outline that was completed in October 2006, I became aware of a childhood behavioral disorder that revolved around the issue of sexually aggressive children. I learned about clinical research that had been conducted on the topic of children with a behavioral disorder commonly referred to as “Sexual Behavior Problems”, or “SBP.”
I had obtained a copy of the book, Sexually Aggressive Children, Coming to Understand Them, and other research materials on that topic late that fall and began to review them in my spare time. Araji’s book, in particular, provided a comprehensive overview of national research that had studied sexual abuse perpetrated by children 12 years of age and younger.
Approximately two months had passed since the mailing of my letter to the D.A.’s office, and I had finished my study of the SBP text book. It was incredibly enlightening, and the case studies only served to strengthen my belief that developed from my analysis of the case that indicated some form of family cover-up.
This information is not all-inclusive but provides an overview of the behavioral symptoms seen with this childhood disorder:

Research into sexually aggressive children was described as being in its “infancy” in the mid1990s. (It appears that the earliest studies on this topic only dated to 1980.)
The average onset of preadolescent sexual behavior problems (SBP) are between the ages of 6-9 years.
Although the term “sexual” is used, the children’s intentions and motivations for these behaviors may be unrelated to sexual gratification.
Children act out for many varied reasons. Some may have been the prior victims of sexual abuse. Some may act out due to other behavioral problems related to PTSD, anger, fear, or emotional detachment. Sexual acting out has been linked to anger, rage, loneliness, and fear.
FBI UCR reports in 1979 revealed 249 rape arrests for children less than 12 years of age. Sixty-six of those children were under the age of 10.
Early research conducted in the 1980s provided evidence that preadolescent children’s behaviors can be as aggressive and violent as those of adolescents and adults.
FBI UCR discontinued reporting the age of offenders in 1980, but the National Center for Juvenile Justice reported a forcible rape rate of .02 per 1000 for 10 and 11 year olds in 1988.
1990 FBI and media reports in this time period indicate that among adults convicted of sex crimes, approximately 30% said they began offending before they were 9 years old.
A 1991 study revealed that some children engaged in behaviors that involved fire-setting, bed-wetting, animal mutilation, and scatological behaviors- (disturbed bodily functions related to urination and elimination).

A 1993 nationwide survey of SBP therapists identified preadolescent behaviors in 222 children that ranged from voyeurism to coercion: The more serious offenses involved digital penetration, penile intercourse, anal intercourse, bestiality, and ritualistic or sadistic sexual abuse.
Another 1993 survey conducted in the Northwest revealed that some offenders used physical coercion that included tying up their victims.
Offenders lack compassion, empathy, and exhibit inadequate social skills.
A victim may be the object of revenge or anger and could be viewed as the parent’s “favored child” by the perpetrator.
Families frequently attempt to portray themselves to the world as the “perfect” family.
Co-morbidity: SBP patients have a higher incidence of psychiatric disorders that include, but are not limited to, attachment disorder and separation anxiety.

Revelation of these clinical case studies and the emerging national recognition of this childhood behavioral disorder was in its infancy at the time of JonBenét’s death, but confirmed what I had occasionally witnessed in the District Attorneys’ weekly SART meetings: Children of Burke’s age had been proven capable of sexually abusing their siblings and others.
Moreover, these studies confirmed that children of his age were capable of committing horrendous acts of physical violence typically thought to have been reserved to adults.
It had been stated repeatedly that there had been no prior recorded history / incidents of abuse that would have suggested parental involvement in JonBenét’s death. As I pointed out in the case analysis report and Power Point outline completed in the fall of 2006, Burke had already exhibited one prior incident of violence against JonBenét.
The incident that involved a blow to the head with a golf club that took place in Michigan was claimed to be an “accident” by the Ramsey family, but it is interesting to note that this incident took place within a day or two of JonBenét’s birthday in August 1994.
One can only wonder whether sibling jealousy or envy may have played any part in that instance, and whether these feelings spilled over into the events of the Christmas holidays in 1996.
I had also found it interesting that the Paugh’s had reportedly purchased several books on childhood behavior for the Ramsey family. The titles of the books were intriguing:

The Hurried Child – Growing Up Too Fast, by David Elkind;
Children at Risk, Dobson / Bruer;
Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right From Wrong, Kilpatrick.

When exploring the nature of the content of these three books, I wondered what might have been taking place in the home that prompted the grandparents to purchase these types of childhood behavioral books for the family.
I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.
I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP.
I also contemplated the reasons why a box of JonBenét’s candy would have been smeared with human excrement.
As noted previously, Linda Hoffman-Pugh had also mentioned finding fecal material in JonBenét’s bed sheets. It raised the question as to who may have been responsible for the deposit of that material in her bed – had it been JonBenét or was it Burke?
I readily admit that I am not a trained psychologist – psychiatrist, having taken only the most basic of courses during my college studies. But these observations pointed to indicia of some type of behavioral issue that had been taking place in the Ramsey household, and they appeared to have been taking place over some period of time. Incidents like these would not likely have become known to those outside the family, but could have been an underlying reason for the grandparent’s purchase of the childhood behavioral books discussed previously.
 
Thanks to Jonjay for posting this excerpt from Kolar's book


Foreign Faction, pp 367-370
The second important event to occur that winter involved additional discoveries that were related to the behavioral symptoms of a childhood disorder.
While working on the written case outline that was completed in October 2006, I became aware of a childhood behavioral disorder that revolved around the issue of sexually aggressive children. I learned about clinical research that had been conducted on the topic of children with a behavioral disorder commonly referred to as “Sexual Behavior Problems”, or “SBP.”
I had obtained a copy of the book, Sexually Aggressive Children, Coming to Understand Them, and other research materials on that topic late that fall and began to review them in my spare time. Araji’s book, in particular, provided a comprehensive overview of national research that had studied sexual abuse perpetrated by children 12 years of age and younger.
Approximately two months had passed since the mailing of my letter to the D.A.’s office, and I had finished my study of the SBP text book. It was incredibly enlightening, and the case studies only served to strengthen my belief that developed from my analysis of the case that indicated some form of family cover-up.
This information is not all-inclusive but provides an overview of the behavioral symptoms seen with this childhood disorder:

Research into sexually aggressive children was described as being in its “infancy” in the mid1990s. (It appears that the earliest studies on this topic only dated to 1980.)
The average onset of preadolescent sexual behavior problems (SBP) are between the ages of 6-9 years.
Although the term “sexual” is used, the children’s intentions and motivations for these behaviors may be unrelated to sexual gratification.
Children act out for many varied reasons. Some may have been the prior victims of sexual abuse. Some may act out due to other behavioral problems related to PTSD, anger, fear, or emotional detachment. Sexual acting out has been linked to anger, rage, loneliness, and fear.
FBI UCR reports in 1979 revealed 249 rape arrests for children less than 12 years of age. Sixty-six of those children were under the age of 10.
Early research conducted in the 1980s provided evidence that preadolescent children’s behaviors can be as aggressive and violent as those of adolescents and adults.
FBI UCR discontinued reporting the age of offenders in 1980, but the National Center for Juvenile Justice reported a forcible rape rate of .02 per 1000 for 10 and 11 year olds in 1988.
1990 FBI and media reports in this time period indicate that among adults convicted of sex crimes, approximately 30% said they began offending before they were 9 years old.
A 1991 study revealed that some children engaged in behaviors that involved fire-setting, bed-wetting, animal mutilation, and scatological behaviors- (disturbed bodily functions related to urination and elimination).

A 1993 nationwide survey of SBP therapists identified preadolescent behaviors in 222 children that ranged from voyeurism to coercion: The more serious offenses involved digital penetration, penile intercourse, anal intercourse, bestiality, and ritualistic or sadistic sexual abuse.
Another 1993 survey conducted in the Northwest revealed that some offenders used physical coercion that included tying up their victims.
Offenders lack compassion, empathy, and exhibit inadequate social skills.
A victim may be the object of revenge or anger and could be viewed as the parent’s “favored child” by the perpetrator.
Families frequently attempt to portray themselves to the world as the “perfect” family.
Co-morbidity: SBP patients have a higher incidence of psychiatric disorders that include, but are not limited to, attachment disorder and separation anxiety.

Revelation of these clinical case studies and the emerging national recognition of this childhood behavioral disorder was in its infancy at the time of JonBenét’s death, but confirmed what I had occasionally witnessed in the District Attorneys’ weekly SART meetings: Children of Burke’s age had been proven capable of sexually abusing their siblings and others.
Moreover, these studies confirmed that children of his age were capable of committing horrendous acts of physical violence typically thought to have been reserved to adults.
It had been stated repeatedly that there had been no prior recorded history / incidents of abuse that would have suggested parental involvement in JonBenét’s death. As I pointed out in the case analysis report and Power Point outline completed in the fall of 2006, Burke had already exhibited one prior incident of violence against JonBenét.
The incident that involved a blow to the head with a golf club that took place in Michigan was claimed to be an “accident” by the Ramsey family, but it is interesting to note that this incident took place within a day or two of JonBenét’s birthday in August 1994.
One can only wonder whether sibling jealousy or envy may have played any part in that instance, and whether these feelings spilled over into the events of the Christmas holidays in 1996.
I had also found it interesting that the Paugh’s had reportedly purchased several books on childhood behavior for the Ramsey family. The titles of the books were intriguing:

The Hurried Child – Growing Up Too Fast, by David Elkind;
Children at Risk, Dobson / Bruer;
Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right From Wrong, Kilpatrick.

When exploring the nature of the content of these three books, I wondered what might have been taking place in the home that prompted the grandparents to purchase these types of childhood behavioral books for the family.
I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.
I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP.
I also contemplated the reasons why a box of JonBenét’s candy would have been smeared with human excrement.
As noted previously, Linda Hoffman-Pugh had also mentioned finding fecal material in JonBenét’s bed sheets. It raised the question as to who may have been responsible for the deposit of that material in her bed – had it been JonBenét or was it Burke?
I readily admit that I am not a trained psychologist – psychiatrist, having taken only the most basic of courses during my college studies. But these observations pointed to indicia of some type of behavioral issue that had been taking place in the Ramsey household, and they appeared to have been taking place over some period of time. Incidents like these would not likely have become known to those outside the family, but could have been an underlying reason for the grandparent’s purchase of the childhood behavioral books discussed previously.
Thank you for posting this Tex! Very eye opening.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Perhaps no one harmed Burke. Perhaps Burke was just ill, and gravely misunderstood. And it was the perfect storm.

I really think he could have done it all.

If he did it all so much of the oddities and disjunctions, and deceitfulness, and half truths, all of a sudden make so much sense.

Having a child like that is hard, you blame yourself; your genes, your nuture, your fault. So it makes sense the parents would be shocked and confused and grief stricken and also feeling the need to hide things all at the same time.

I think they felt like failures as parents, because if people knew what he did, even if Burke wasn't being abused himself, everyone would think otherwise
 
If JR and PR were covering for BR when he was 9 (which I think they were) and now PR is gone, what is the relationship between JR and BR now? If BR knows that he can never be tried for this does anyone think he will ever throw JR under the bus if their relationship goes south or when he passes?
 
The most likely suspects are always the people who had acces to time alone with Burke. The "usual suspects" in no particular order would be; teachers, coaches, clergy, anyone who worked in the home regularly, immediate family, extended family, family friends.

In this case, ultimately either his father, or an extended family member would be my guess. It's possible JAR did it to him also, but in that case, someone would have done it to JAR or unless JaR had age innapropriate issues in that regard, but to my knowledge we have heard no such thing. If JAR did know that Butke was ill and/or bring molestated....his forgiveness statement would make a lot of sense. Perhaps he understood what drove Burke more then anyone.

I wonder if when Burke started acting out, they would punish him, and keep JBR closet. Dotting on her, giving her more attention, all in an attempt to make up for the abuse she suffered at the hands of her brother. Much like parents often over compensate to keep their children happy during a divorce.

The problem was Burke was likely acting out for attention in large part. He saw the attention once focused only on him, get taken away and directed at JBR. He acts out, because he lacks strong expressive language skills. But when he does it back fires, and JBR just gets more attention....he doesn't get why, and gets more frustrated, and he still can't expressive so he acts out. I think the animosity was building for a while, and I think the parents efforts to "comfort" JBR after such incidents may have added to his increased rage.

In his head he might have truly thought he could just get rid of her, and it would all get back to normal.

Didn't BR say in the interview with the detective something to the effect "just going to get along with his life"? I thought this odd coming from a 9 year old.
 
If JR and PR were covering for BR when he was 9 (which I think they were) and now PR is gone, what is the relationship between JR and BR now? If BR knows that he can never be tried for this does anyone think he will ever throw JR under the bus if their relationship goes south or when he passes?

I'd like to think that if there is any happy end to this story, is that BR's issues did receive the help he needs, and that he continues to receive any help. That as a family, behind closed doors they tried to treat this illness and heal from the tragedy it caused. That they viewed it as a private family matter, and try to focus on getting Burke healthy. Perhaps between that, and PR's death, they have developed a healthy family partnership where they have each other's backs in a supportive way.

Wouldn't satisfy our curiousity, but....would probably be the best outcome possible.

However it's also possible, he still remain terrified of his father, and continues to experience a dis functional relationship. It could be that a fear of disappointing his father has stunted his sense of self worth, and by this his father is able to control him with a tight leash. Which his immaturity and appearing to behave much younger then his age on Dr Phil could be associated with.
 
Didn't BR say in the interview with the detective something to the effect "just going to get along with his life"? I thought this odd coming from a 9 year old.

One of the most chilling things he said in that interview, with the psychiatrist, 13 days after his sister had been murdered..."I know what happened!" he said....And said he was "going on with my life." That interview would have had the hair standing up on my head if I were the psych.
 
Bumping this comment to answer a query that you posted earlier on thread #2.



Brendon, perhaps you have confused the two different kinds of rope found in the home. One was used for strangling JonBenet. Those rope or cord fibers were not found on her bed. The rope fibers found on JBs bed were from the rope found in JARs room in the brown paper bag. It is a thicker, stronger rope used for rock climbing. Thus, it is a totally different rope than the white cording that was used to asphyxiate JonBenet.

BTW ~ Tricia Griffith, the owner of this website, does not allow Intruder theories on the JonBenet Ramsey forum any longer and hasn't in a while. She has documented that fact for a reason. There was No Intruder in the Ramsey home the night JonBenet died.
OH, OK. I'm fine with that. Did not know that. I seriously wish the owner would also ban theories on prepubescent bondage, and excrement. Makes this thread very hard to read. There is no evidence tying in either directly, other than fantasy. Yuck.

Different cord? God, its hard to keep up. I'm looking at what I read again about the fibers, and it is from a Judge Carnes in a libel case.

PS I had no idea if there is some background politics here.
 
[clipped for space]

Having a child like that is hard, you blame yourself; your genes, your nuture, your fault. So it makes sense the parents would be shocked and confused and grief stricken and also feeling the need to hide things all at the same time.

I think they felt like failures as parents, because if people knew what he did, even if Burke wasn't being abused himself, everyone would think otherwise

I have a hard time imagining either JR or PR blaming themselves for anything.
 
OH, OK. I'm fine with that. Did not know that. I seriously wish the owner would also ban theories on prepubescent bondage, and excrement. Makes this thread very hard to read. There is no evidence tying in either directly, other than fantasy. Yuck.

Different cord? God, its hard to keep up. I'm looking at what I read again about the fibers, and it is from a Judge Carnes in a libel case.

PS I had no idea if there is some background politics here.

The things you protest are in evidence. Which says a lot.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OH, OK. I'm fine with that. Did not know that. I seriously wish the owner would also ban theories on prepubescent bondage, and excrement. Makes this thread very hard to read. There is no evidence tying in either directly, other than fantasy. Yuck.

Different cord? God, its hard to keep up. I'm looking at what I read again about the fibers, and it is from a Judge Carnes in a libel case.

PS I had no idea if there is some background politics here.
The excrement is well documented. 2 house keepers witnessed it. Plus it was found smeared in JBR bedroom on her chocolate box.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
62
Guests online
2,611
Total visitors
2,673

Forum statistics

Threads
603,299
Messages
18,154,576
Members
231,702
Latest member
Rav17en
Back
Top