The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[PositiveLight]

I am pretty sure she also graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude, so if Patsy was the writer of the note, my thoughts are that those words were misspelled on purpose.

It is interesting to note the writer of the RN used a specific editing symbol that was taught in Journalism schools at the time Patsy was in college.

What are the odds that a "kidnapper/murderer" would use Patsy's paper and pen to write the RN, and that their handwriting would bear such a strong resemblance to Patsy's, and the writer would use a Journalism school editing symbol in the note?

Molly I agree totally. I think that they can't rule her out 100% because it's hard to do that with handwriting. So many variables. S they couldn't rule her out tells me she's the one.

 

[PositiveLight]

So many people get caught up in the ransom notes and fibers and all the possibilies they could suggest and that is important I believe as supporting a case but IMO its not as significant as " Opportunity " in this case. Every crime like this has to have an opportunity for the killer to commit the crime. CBS suggested this very well I thought. The pineapple is the key. They mentioned the bowl of pineapple with BR prints on it and the contents of JBR's small intestine as well as the condition of those contents. The pineapple makes BR the last known person to see her alive and the condition of the pineapple in her small intestine along with other things gives you time of death. So now you have a very small window for opportunity for the killing to occur. Put all other theories into this window of opportunity and you can eliminate a lot.

I am curious is there has been a report released estimating the time of digestion on that pineapple. would be interesting to see how long after she at it death occurred. I do know fruit metabolizes much faster then protiens such as meat.

Plus you also have to remember if she lay unconscious for 45 min - 2 hours it would make a difference. I do know that when the body is in severe distress, like a head injury for example, the body naturally tries to keep the vital organs functioning. That's why the blood circulation to arms and legs becomes almost non-existent because the blood is being shunted to the most vital organs. So Not sure if the digestion would be considered vital.
Honestly, I think Burke had bad intentions after she possibly stole a piece of pineapple. He was probably angry all day too. So he just snapped. It was probably not the first time either. I feel like he got a thrill out of getting the competition for his mothers affection, out of the way. I also think he got a thrill out of seeing his parents sad and distraught. IMHO he was a selfish little brat that was probably abused sexually. That night he had had enough. I think he did all the injuries inflicted on JonBenet. Whether it was an accident or intentional we may never know. But I do believe PR wrote the note and covered up the scene as much as ;possible. Including wrapping her in the blanket. MOO
and I also feel that the CBS show didn't want to say the sexual abuse was on purpose. I think they meant it wasn't the only reason it occurred. I think it was his way of torturing her or trying to revive her.

 

[PositiveLight]

PositiveLight: Thank you. :great: :great: :great:

You are very welcome!!!!!! :loveyou:

 

[PositiveLight]

O/T but I'm off to bed now. I am leaving for a trip this morning. I may or may not be able to check in. But if I don't, I will be back Monday. Not looking forward to the trip due to illness. Hugs and love to all!
Praying for JonBenet!

 

[BBB167893]

Thanks dave. read my post on the CBS thread about " Opportunity " for the killing to have happened and tell me what you think.

This is what you said, for those who haven't seen it.

So many people get caught up in the ransom notes and fibers and all the possibilies they could suggest and that is important I believe as supporting a case but IMO its not as significant as " Opportunity " in this case. Every crime like this has to have an opportunity for the killer to commit the crime. CBS suggested this very well I thought. The pineapple is the key. They mentioned the bowl of pineapple with BR prints on it and the contents of JBR's small intestine as well as the condition of those contents. The pineapple makes BR the last known person to see her alive and the condition of the pineapple in her small intestine along with other things gives you time of death. So now you have a very small window for opportunity for the killing to occur. Put all other theories into this window of opportunity and you can eliminate a lot.

Maybe we should make a timeline.

I am curious is there has been a report released estimating the time of digestion on that pineapple. would be interesting to see how long after she at it death occurred. I do know fruit metabolizes much faster then protiens such as meat.

The general consensus is two hours.

 

[BBB167893]

O/T but I'm off to bed now. I am leaving for a trip this morning. I may or may not be able to check in. But if I don't, I will be back Monday. Not looking forward to the trip due to illness. Hugs and love to all!
Praying for JonBenet!

PL, THAT was some posting! I am in awe of the effort you were willing to go to for everyone here. Much love to you.

And JonBenet, of course. We love our little angel girl.

 

[BoldBear]

Didn't they also have a fireplace? Wonder if that was checked?

There was a fireplace in the living room and master bedroom. In Steve Thomas' book, Steve and Lou sifted through the ash box. Oddly enough, he says that an intruder wouldn't probably wouldn't have used the fireplace in an occupied home.

 

[BoldBear]

It is interesting to note the writer of the RN used a specific editing symbol that was taught in Journalism schools at the time Patsy was in college.

I was taught the editing symbols in junior high and throughout high school. They're used when teachers correct papers.

 

[Tortoise]

I am pretty sure she also graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude, so if Patsy was the writer of the note, my thoughts are that those words were misspelled on purpose.

It is interesting to note the writer of the RN used a specific editing symbol that was taught in Journalism schools at the time Patsy was in college.

What are the odds that a "kidnapper/murderer" would use Patsy's paper and pen to write the RN, and that their handwriting would bear such a strong resemblance to Patsy's, and the writer would use a Journalism school editing symbol in the note?

What was the editing symbol she used?

 

[Tortoise]

So many people get caught up in the ransom notes and fibers and all the possibilies they could suggest and that is important I believe as supporting a case but IMO its not as significant as " Opportunity " in this case. Every crime like this has to have an opportunity for the killer to commit the crime. CBS suggested this very well I thought. The pineapple is the key. They mentioned the bowl of pineapple with BR prints on it and the contents of JBR's small intestine as well as the condition of those contents. The pineapple makes BR the last known person to see her alive and the condition of the pineapple in her small intestine along with other things gives you time of death. So now you have a very small window for opportunity for the killing to occur. Put all other theories into this window of opportunity and you can eliminate a lot.

I am curious is there has been a report released estimating the time of digestion on that pineapple. would be interesting to see how long after she at it death occurred. I do know fruit metabolizes much faster then protiens such as meat.

I would agree if I thought Patsy had been to bed that night, but I don't think she did go to bed. So then we have Patsy awake at the same time as her two children. I think that affects Burke's window of opportunity significantly and the CBS special didn't address that at all. Why are her children creeping around by flashlight if Patsy is not in bed and still milling about the house with lights on? What were her stress levels like, and was she even slightly intoxicated after the White's?

The pineapple hasn't been eaten, so we know something interrupted that but it might not have been an act of violence. It could be something as simple as not wanting to eat that much and picking out a piece or two before being distracted by a new toy or being told by a parent to get to bed now. Then one sneaks into the other's bedroom without the parents knowing. Or there is an incident in the bedroom involving a parent while getting JonBenet ready for bed, or even a short while later.

I doubt this head blow occurred in the basement because I don't think the children would have been in the basement with Patsy awake - and their new presents were upstairs, a far stronger lure, if they were awake and playing because they were about to leave on a trip and had to leave their presents at home. So that suggests to me it occurred on the ground floor or the bedroom floor, while Patsy was moving around. It could have been Burke but the others can't be eliminated that simply.

If it comes down to Burke's known history of disturbing behaviour that's one thing, but this family has a secret and I think it's bigger than Burke's behaviour, that is the symptom, and I believe it involves all of them.

 

[dizzychick]

Is it true that JR and PR never woke BR up to ask him if he heard or saw anything in the night ? I believe that is what has been reported. If one of your children were abducted and murdered presumably in your home wouldn't you at least wake the other children even if they were sleeping to ask them what they heard/saw? This just baffles me. I think it is a strong very strong piece of evidence...

 

[Tortoise]

otg look at a report from DR.'s McCann, Spitz, Jones ect. about their conclusions to the ME autopsy and you will understand the discussion at the end of the show o the sexual abuse. What they were agreeing to was that the immediate sexual abuse was part of the staging. Very little microscopic wood fibers on slide spitz says. However, if you read the conclusions of the McCann report you will see most agree that long term sex abuse had been taking place. That is why I believe Lee so emphatically said ....To cover up...to cover up.

In other words, make it look like a sexual perv. abused her to cover up the abuse that had been going on. John had to know an ME was gonna note a punctured hymen and scarring and such airing the autopsy. It sure provides motive for all the staging doesn't it.

My impression was they concluded it could have been transfer, which is not a satisfactory conclusion at all. Wood particles don't transfer internally through two layers of clothing, from items like the blanket she was carried in. They really bluffed that part of it, and I can understand their reluctance to make a case for this being deliberate, but nonetheless, you don't expect experts to fluff their conclusions for a show.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

Any info on Beth's accident? It was an accident, right? I wonder? hmm.

Moo....

 

[PositiveLight]

PL, THAT was some posting! I am in awe of the effort you were willing to go to for everyone here. Much love to you.

And JonBenet, of course. We love our little angel girl.

Thank you! It's for JonBenet too. That precious angel!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Heymom]

There was a fireplace in the living room and master bedroom. In Steve Thomas' book, Steve and Lou sifted through the ash box. Oddly enough, he says that an intruder wouldn't probably wouldn't have used the fireplace in an occupied home.

Because you don't know how much of the evidence would burn, and there are always leftovers. He's right. And if the Ramseys tried that, it's likely that there were leftovers.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Any info on Beth's accident? It was an accident, right? I wonder? hmm.

Moo....

Definitely an accident. You can google news stories about it. I believe it was near Chicago on a freeway. She and her boyfriend were in a car that collided with a truck. She and she and the boy were both killed.

 

[ThinkHard]

The CBS show is not the end all and be all of this case though, many, many experts were involved in determining that not only had sexual abuse of some kind taken place that night, but had also taken place before.

There is no simple way for that cellulose to get inside her vaginal canal without someone inserting something (fingers, paintbrush etc.). I know some have stated she could have masturbated, but then when would she have handled the brush? I highly doubt she could have broken the brush herself, and why would she have done that?

Just for the sake of exploring all angles, and certainly not to be argumentative. But it was suspected that "cellulose" was microscopic, and could have been from toilet paper as well, as obviously both are made from trees and will both have similar characteristics when tested or perceived through a microscope.

I still think the only way it could get inside of her, is by being forced up there. But if she was exploring herself or someone had been doing something to her....I can more easily imagine a microscopic fragment of toilet paper getting up there from a finger not being washed after using the bathroom, then a paintbrush handle being used that way on her. But what do I know.

 

[Tortoise]

I think the most likely explanation is that it was something Burke had rigged up before that night.

(re. the garrote)

Sorry to drag up an earlier post but I had intended to reply to this and forgot about it.

Her hair was caught up in the knot.

 

[Tortoise]

Just for the sake of exploring all angles, and certainly not to be argumentative. But it was suspected that "cellulose" was microscopic, and could have been from toilet paper as well, as obviously both are made from trees and will both have similar characteristics when tested or perceived through a microscope.

I still think the only way it could get inside of her, is by being forced up there. But if she was exploring herself or someone had been doing something to her....I can more easily imagine a microscopic fragment of toilet paper getting up there from a finger not being washed after using the bathroom, then a paintbrush handle being used that way on her. But what do I know.

Then there was the birefringent properties to consider. Not sure if I have used that word correctly because it's a new one to me. It made me think of something like paint or varnish.

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

The pineapple hasn't been eaten, so we know something interrupted that but it might not have been an act of violence. It could be something as simple as not wanting to eat that much and picking out a piece or two before being distracted by a new toy or being told by a parent to get to bed now. Then one sneaks into the other's bedroom without the parents knowing. Or there is an incident in the bedroom involving a parent while getting JonBenet ready for bed, or even a short while later.
.

I think it may have started in JonBenets bedroom and that she was wearing the pink pajamas. You can see the top on the bed and the bottoms never showed up along with the underwear she probably had on originally. Also blood specks were found on a pillow. Does anyone know Whether the pillow found on the downstairs counter belonged to JonBenet? Does anyone know which pillow had the blood specs on it, the pillow on her bed or the pillow on the kitchen counter? I would attach pictures but I'm not sure how to get at them to do it.