The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 3

[DrollForeignFaction]

Working on transcribing the Dr. Phil interviews now. 10 min in and it's basically all fluff so far. Blegh! So many weird changes to the story so far too by news reporters etc. I'm not adding my opinions on these though. Just trying to do a word for word. I'm already annoyed at how DP is leading people to feel like he's going to make them confess...knowing what the ending is like and the Q&A session too.i didn't record the last episode so I will have to dig up an online recording. I was so frustrated at that point with Dr. Phil I cancelled the last recording. Oopsies!😇

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Wow, thanks, I look forward to reading that. I tried to go through just doing Burke and John's interviews and it's so frustrating. But very important to have access to.

 

[Annapurna]

Hi Annapurna, Burke certainly is one creepy kid! The quote is taken directly from a clip of his interview when he was 9, which was shown during the second episode of the CBS documentary show. He actually said words to the effect of: "Well, I...I asked my Dad where did you find her body?"

I'm really sorry, I'm not clever enough to send a direct link, but maybe someone else reading this will be able to? I found his body language very interesting when he was saying this, too- he was holding a game which was a plastic frame, and holding it over his face, to hide behind.

Also from the CBS documentary, another quite chilling comment from Burke stands out in my mind- in his interview when he was 11, he seemed very cocky, and when talking about hearing that night that his sister may be missing, he said: "What are the chances of that happening?" To me, it was both flippantly casual, but also as if he meant "If only- I should be so lucky!"

I watched the docs but I swear I missed as much as I saw...lol. I'll be re-watching tonight. Thanks!

 

[Heymom]

This is the photo I am referring to
http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetbody1.jpg

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That's not a photo, but an artist's rendering and we have no idea if it was at all accurate. In fact, from the actual autopsy photos, her hands were bent up in front of her face in a sort of "boxer's" position, not straight up over her head.

 

[UKGuy]

In a nutshell without getting lost in the details, BR manually strangled JonBenet and sexually assaulted her, he may have whacked her on the head to silence her? Consider Coroner Meyer's remarks about Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration.

The parents then attempt to hide this by staging their own version, applying the ligature/paintbrush, and using the paintbrush to assault JonBenet internally?

It might have been one of the parents that whacked JonBenet on the head and as JR suggests this failed so she was asphyxiated?


If you think the train tracks were used then these and the paintbrush should help you to partition the house into a Primary Crime-Scene, i.e. BR's locus, and a Secondary Crime-Scene, i.e. that of the parents: basement.

So you have the train tracks upstairs and the paintbrush downstairs:

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said she had left the paint tote at the foot of stairs on December 23, and didn't know who had moved it?

So although there might have been some intermediate staging or events we know nothing about.

An occam or kiss version of events, has JonBenet being assaulted upstairs and the parents staging it away downstairs.

I do not think BR was involved downstairs, there is no forensic evidence linking him to JonBenet in the wine-cellar whereas there is for both parents, but BR is linked by all the circumstantial evidence to events that night, pineapple snack, those pants in JonBenet's bedroom, etc.

To speculate further in an attempt to highlight that JonBenet and BR were likely meeting regularly at night.

Those pictures that were dumped into the basement might have actually belonged to BR and not JAR as previously suggested, i.e. it may have been BR who was obsessed with JonBenet, and for all the wrong reasons?

.

 

[PositiveLight]

That's not a photo, but an artist's rendering and we have no idea if it was at all accurate. In fact, from the actual autopsy photos, her hands were bent up in front of her face in a sort of "boxer's" position, not straight up over her head.

Well I know it's not a real photo lol even her necklace was tangled in the ligature and in the artist drawing isn't not. I was just referring to how her hair was pulled up and asking if that is similar to how it was pulled up.

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[PositiveLight]

In a nutshell without getting lost in the details, BR manually strangled JonBenet and sexually assaulted her, he may have whacked her on the head to silence her? Consider Coroner Meyer's remarks about Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration.

The parents then attempt to hide this by staging their own version, applying the ligature/paintbrush, and using the paintbrush to assault JonBenet internally?

It might have been one of the parents that whacked JonBenet on the head and as JR suggests this failed so she was asphyxiated?


If you think the train tracks were used then these and the paintbrush should help you to partition the house into a Primary Crime-Scene, i.e. BR's locus, and a Secondary Crime-Scene, i.e. that of the parents: basement.

So you have the train tracks upstairs and the paintbrush downstairs:



So although there might have been some intermediate staging or events we know nothing about.

An occam or kiss version of events, has JonBenet being assaulted upstairs and the parents staging it away downstairs.

I do not think BR was involved downstairs, there is no forensic evidence linking him to JonBenet in the wine-cellar whereas there is for both parents, but BR is linked by all the circumstantial evidence to events that night, pineapple snack, those pants in JonBenet's bedroom, etc.

To speculate further in an attempt to highlight that JonBenet and BR were likely meeting regularly at night.

Those pictures that were dumped into the basement might have actually belonged to BR and not JAR as previously suggested, i.e. it may have been BR who was obsessed with JonBenet, and for all the wrong reasons?

.

Well done! This actually makes sense to me . Plus the further distancing her body from Burke physically to the basement would make even more sense.

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[Ambitioned]

I do not think BR was involved downstairs, there is no forensic evidence linking him to JonBenet in the wine-cellar whereas there is for both parents, but BR is linked by all the circumstantial evidence to events that night, pineapple snack, those pants in JonBenet's bedroom, etc.

Interesting but, possible footprint in wc? Possible train track marks? Torn presents in wc? His tDNA on nightie? I think she was hurt in basement but we can agree to disagree

 

[TexMex]

Interesting but, possible footprint in wc? Possible train track marks? Torn presents in wc? His tDNA on nightie? I think she was hurt in basement but we can agree to disagree

There is also speculation it was his boot print next to her body in the basement

 

[carolinea]

Interesting but, possible footprint in wc? Possible train track marks? Torn presents in wc? His tDNA on nightie? I think she was hurt in basement but we can agree to disagree

Plus, there was urine outside the door to the room where she was found, which indicates she either died there or released her bladder when she was hit in the head.

 

[No it's not]

Please listen to the podcast posted by "Ambitioned" (thanks!) in the media thread. Jim Clemente and Laura Richards among else are discussing details about what would have been covered in the 6 hr version of the CBS special.

https://art19.com/shows/real-crime-profile/episodes/9e2d2468-6c53-4a10-8aff-9e74ad1cec22

-Nin

 

[Heymom]

Remember, she was cleaned up/washed in the basement so anything from Burke may have been removed at that point. We also don't know everything - the police may have held quite a lot of evidence back in hopes of going to trial.

 

[Karinna]

In a nutshell without getting lost in the details, BR manually strangled JonBenet and sexually assaulted her, he may have whacked her on the head to silence her? Consider Coroner Meyer's remarks about Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration.

The parents then attempt to hide this by staging their own version, applying the ligature/paintbrush, and using the paintbrush to assault JonBenet internally?

It might have been one of the parents that whacked JonBenet on the head and as JR suggests this failed so she was asphyxiated?


If you think the train tracks were used then these and the paintbrush should help you to partition the house into a Primary Crime-Scene, i.e. BR's locus, and a Secondary Crime-Scene, i.e. that of the parents: basement.

So you have the train tracks upstairs and the paintbrush downstairs:



So although there might have been some intermediate staging or events we know nothing about.

An occam or kiss version of events, has JonBenet being assaulted upstairs and the parents staging it away downstairs.

I do not think BR was involved downstairs, there is no forensic evidence linking him to JonBenet in the wine-cellar whereas there is for both parents, but BR is linked by all the circumstantial evidence to events that night, pineapple snack, those pants in JonBenet's bedroom, etc.

To speculate further in an attempt to highlight that JonBenet and BR were likely meeting regularly at night.

Those pictures that were dumped into the basement might have actually belonged to BR and not JAR as previously suggested, i.e. it may have been BR who was obsessed with JonBenet, and for all the wrong reasons?

.

After the CBS special what was the evidence of JBR having been sexually assaulted on the night in question? Dr Lee & Dr. Spitz agreed there was no sexual assault on that night, but people here keep insisting there was sexual assault with a paintbrush handle? I really think we need to get it right or there will be confusion on that, and the case is already crazy enough as it is, IMO.
(quote)
The investigators also maintain that JonBenet was not sexually assaulted, and that the DNA found on her underwear may have gotten there during the manufacturing and packaging process.

 

[HarmonyE.]

In
An occam or kiss version of events, has JonBenet being assaulted upstairs and the parents staging it away downstairs.

I do not think BR was involved downstairs, there is no forensic evidence linking him to JonBenet in the wine-cellar whereas there is for both parents, but BR is linked by all the circumstantial evidence to events that night, pineapple snack, those pants in JonBenet's bedroom, etc.

As Burke told us himself, he spent a lot of time in that basement, so while I'm not sure what was actually tested, his fingerprints and DNA would be expected down there. For instance, it sounds like he had Hi-Tek boots (with a compass on them) so that could have been his footprint in the windowless room, but arguably he may have been down there for an innocent reason in the days or weeks before the murder.

We've heard a lot about the trace DNA on the clothing, but have the ligature, the tape, the cord, and the remnants of the paintbrush been tested? If not, why not? It would seem they'd be pretty important as they were clearly handled by whoever strangled her and staged the kidnapping.

 

[RL2]

So, the WC door was locked from the outside at the very top left by a wooden block type thing, according to Officer French (one reason he didn't even check it).....


could Burke reach that lock?

 

[Karinna]

Lee said, during the CBS team’s investigation, that the DNA found at the scene and even on the girl’s body was not conclusive in any way. But it especially ruled out the possibility of an intruder entering the house and sexually assaulting the girl.
“That DNA has no forensic value,” Lee said. “There’s no sexual assault here.”

https://www.forensicmag.com/article/2016/09/case-jonbenet-ramsey-pins-murder-older-brother

 

[HarmonyE.]

So, the WC door was locked from the outside at the very top left by a wooden block type thing, according to Officer French (one reason he didn't even check it).....


could Burke reach that lock?

Not likely. If French was right, it was because the stager or stagers flipped it after tucking the victim in for the last time. The Ramseys flip flopped a few times over whether it was regularly locked, but to quote Patsy's more believable version:

Would it be capable of falling down on its own?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know, and I wasn't always -- you know, I was hiding some Christmas presents and stuff back in there for Christmas.
TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you recall –
PATSY RAMSEY: What I was going to say, I mean, after bringing the stuff up out of there after Christmas, I would not have specifically necessarily locked it because it kind of drags on the carpet.
TOM HANEY: All right.
PATSY RAMSEY: So I can't say that I personally left it neat and tidy shut and closed after I had gotten all of the toys out of there.

 

[TeaTime]

PATSY RAMSEY: So I can't say that I personally left it neat and tidy shut and closed after I had gotten all of the toys out of there.

Why do I find this so funny?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Why do I find this so funny?

Because it is? Although to be fair to Mrs. Ramsey, that little dungeon room was probably the tidiest place in the whole house

 

[sedndun]

So, the WC door was locked from the outside at the very top left by a wooden block type thing, according to Officer French (one reason he didn't even check it).....


could Burke reach that lock?

John mentioned a chair or stool that was in an odd location by the train room. It's certainly possible that Burke used it to reach the block.

 

[BoldBear]

John mentioned a chair or stool that was in an odd location by the train room. It's certainly possible that Burke used it to reach the block.

There were plenty of items for the kids to climb on to unlock that door. The chair that gets attention is Smit's magical moving chair. It's in front of the train room and then it's not.