The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[Boodles]

I have always been a fence-sitter. Last night's interview with the 911 operator totally swayed me. I'm not sure who I think did what, but her info made it apparent that there was no intruder. JMO

The thing that bothers me about Archuleta is that if she had such a "bad feeling" and heard other voices and a major shift in PR's tone, why was she unaware of the murder until she came on to her next shift? And why didn't she insert herself into the investigation?

I've never been a dispatcher, but I think if I was and a woman called about a 6 year old kidnapping (in a smallish college town, not a big metro NYC type place), I would turn on the news or read the paper to find out what happened. It's not like Boulder had frequent suspicious child kidnappings. But she didn't find out about JBRs murder until she came back to work (it's unclear to me whether that was the next day or several days later). If she had been that concerned about a suspicious circumstance and had a bad feeling, why didn't she contract police and tell them she had information? There was certainly enough publicity and controversy.

I personally cannot hear the alleged Patsy, John and Burke comments. That's not to say they don't exist, but I'm just not sure about Kim's recollection and certainty of these voices all these years later.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Competition from Sunday Night Football and the Primetime Emmy Awards did not prevent CBS’ “The Case Of JonBenet Ramsey” from attracting a solid live+same-day audience.

According to fast national data posted by Showbuzz, CBS averaged a 2.1 adults 18-49 rating and 10.29 million total viewers during the 8:30-10:30PM window.

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2016/09/19/ratings-case-jonbenet-ramsey-debuts-impressively/

Also did better in overall numbers than the Emmys

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-sunday-ratings-9-18-2016.html

Doesn't look like the saturation of JBR programming affected it at all.

 

[Doghairrules]

Ask and you shall receive!

The attached image is available here:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/1stfloor.gif.

PR made the call in the kitchen near the cup of pens used to write the RN. JR supposedly read the note spread out on the floor in that same area with light from the adjoining hallway between that spot and where the writing pad was located. Otherwise the important items are detailed on this map.

The other photo is of the kitchen where the call was placed. The phone would be located in the right foreground (area not visible in this photo).

They have good maps of the other floors of the home too:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/basement.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/2ndfloor.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/3rdfloor.gif

The first floor is super chopped up, isn't it?


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[Nana46]

Can anyone please give their thoughts on where JR was when he went missing for about an hour after the body was discovered? I think I have missed this information before. Thanks.

 

[No it's not]

The repeat:

http://tvgo.xfinity.com/watch/The-C...5/The-Case-Of:-JonBenet-Ramsey,-Part-1/videos

 

[DatelineFan]

Which makes me question what kind of people they were friends with. I could get on board with not talking to the press, but if LE is investigating the death of a 6 year old child and one of my "friends" told me not to cooperate with them? Um, No.

I hesitate to make that judgment. I understand your thoughts, though. I think they were quite intimidated and possibly threatened by Team Ramsey. I believe they were talked into signing non-disclosure agreements.

Fleet White is a great example. Obviously we don't know for sure why he won't talk, but I think it's obvious that he really wants to, and has for many years. JR and PR had a damn good legal team, and a lot of money, if nothing else.

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[TeaTime]

My new theory is that the garotte was in place before the blow on the head. I think it was fashioned by BR as part of a game he was playing with JBR. I think he convinced her to wear it. She did so, not knowing the intent. Maybe BR was going to pretend strangle her and not really hurt her initially. He may have read something or seen something in the movies that he wished to re-enact to some extent. At some point, JBR decides she wants no more of this, or perhaps BR does hurt her. That's when he strikes her with the hammer. Then after a bit he, or someone else actually tightens the garotte. Game over. JMO.

The problem with this theory is that his DNA and clothing fibers were not found all over the cording. PRs fibers were.

 

[Doghairrules]

I have to give credit to Tortoise in post 154 for delivering perhaps a hugely insightful theory on the phone. To me, it makes so much sense! He would want to hear the call of course, and what better way?

And isn't it interesting that JR, Mr. Control Freak, had Patsy make the 911 call?


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[Boodles]

When they were discussing the suitcase last night in the program, I thought maybe John was going to attempt to put JBRs body into the suitcase and take her away. But he couldn't get the suitcase up and out of the window and into the window well and LE was swarming.

Attempting that would be pretty bold (and horrible planning, i.e., not getting rid of the body before calling 911), but I can't help but think there was a thought and possible attempt to remove her body from the house via the suitcase, but the plan backfired. That would account for John being MIA for awhile, trying to figure out how to remove her from the basement.

I wonder if they tested the suitcase for JBRs DNA or signs of decomposition.

 

[human]

Several things here:

1) It would have been a far greater risk to have him stay, and risk getting questioned/observed by police.

2) The prospect of going to jail is utterly terrifying to a 9-year-old. That would be more than ample motivation for him to NEVER admit his wrongdoing to ANYONE, even as a 9-year old child.

3) In fact, new interview footage teased last night shows BR being interviewed by cops. When asked if he had any secrets, he tells the cop "I'm not telling you."

4) If BR ever blabbed at the Whites (not likely, IMO, for the reasons stated above), the Ramseys are still in a win-win situation. Let's say he eventually cracks.... his parents are guilty of a cover-up, they are not likely charged due to the enormous sympathy of parents simply being motivated by "not losing their other child." BR never cracks....they all get away with it and the Ramseys don't lose their son. By adopting a cover-up for their son, it's a low-risk, high-reward strategy. The other option is having BR confess, and the end result is they gain nothing and not only lose their other child (they probably didn't know at the time that BR could not have been tried for murder), but intense media scrutiny focuses on a highly dysfunctional family. Therefore, a cover-up for their son is the most rational course of action.

Under the circumstances, I bet the Whites would have done anything to distract Burke and not upset him as to the murder of his sister. They would want to protect this child and his sweet innocence. They would probably not think he did it. So entertain him to distract him.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Datelinefan,

Remember Fleet White did talk to the police many times and he testified at the Grand Jury. The only people Fleet White has spoken in-depth with is the media in some form or another.

White has been a champion for justice for JonBenet since day one. We don't see it or hear it because he does these things without fanfare.

In no way do I speak for Fleet White. These are my observations and that's all.

Thanks,
Tricia

I hesitate to make that judgment. I understand your thoughts, though. I think they were quite intimidated and possibly threatened by Team Ramsey. I

believe they were talked into signing non-disclosure agreements.

Fleet White is a great example. Obviously we don't know for sure why he won't talk, but I think it's obvious that he really wants to, and has for many years. JR and PR had a damn good legal team, and a lot of money, if nothing else.

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[Dogface]

As I'm watching they just showed her little hands with the rope...it just makes me feel sick. Children's hands are so cute and precious, perfect for tracing turkeys and other crafts....seeing them in that manner is just so awful. I haven't seen any of those pictures before and it just hit me like a sucker punch.

 

[Boodles]

And isn't it interesting that JR, Mr. Control Freak, had Patsy make the 911 call?

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YES! Great observation. This has always amazed me! WTH was he supposedly doing during the call, twiddling his thumbs? He's way too "in charge" to have delegated such a crucial task to PR if he believed JBR had been kidnapped. I don't even think he would have called the police (if she had been kidnapped). He would likely have "handled it" himself or with his peeps. Or if he did call LE, he would have made sure their presence and involvement would have remained clandestine. There's no way he would have allowed marked police cars and family friends all over the property if he believed she had been kidnapped.

 

[Madeleine74]

The problem with BDI is that there is no reason for them to continue to cover for Burke. Certainly by the next day they've contacted their lawyers and have been informed the Burke is safe from prosecution. One does not continue to risk being charged with murder to avoid being charged with lesser crimes such as evidence tampering or obstruction of justice. If it were BDI then John and Patsy would simply have confessed to staging the scene to protect Burke. Again they aren't going to risk being charged with a murder they did not commit.

Of course there's reason to continue the ruse. They couldn't very well admit to anyone what they did to cover up what happened. I doubt they ever admitted it to anyone, including any attorney. Respectfully, you don't know what John and/or Patsy would have done because you don't know them and are not them, so any argument about what *they* would have done is not valid. What I think you're saying is what you would have done if you were in that situation and why you would have admitted it.

But the R's never did.

 

[DatelineFan]

Hi Datelinefan,

Remember Fleet White did talk to the police many times and he testified at the Grand Jury. The only people Fleet White has spoken in-depth with is the media in some form or another.

White has been a champion for justice for JonBenet since day one. We don't see it or hear it because he does these things without fanfare.

In no way do I speak for Fleet White. These are my observations and that's all.

Thanks,
Tricia

But he's never spoken of details publicly, correct? I'm a supporter of FW, btw. I've just been thinking about how the Ramseys managed to keep details about the family and their past so quiet.

And the rest of the friends spoke to no one?


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[Dogface]

Ok just saw the skull/flashlight demo. I am sold. The flashlight did it. I think also, because the skull was mounted, it didn't move how a body would and absorb the impact like a living body would, and even then the strike produced a very, very similar shape.

 

[Madeleine74]

At this point I wish the investigators would stop calling this a "homicide." I truly do not think anyone intended for JBR to die that night. Therefore, it's a killing as a result of an accident/moment of rage. There can't be any "justice" for JBR because the head bash cannot be taken back--Spitz confirmed that injury was fatal. Her heart continued to beat for some time, but her brain was mortally wounded--she was in essence a goner.

You can't today arrest BR for what he did in 1996 as a 9 yr and 11mo old child. I know people wish they could see the handcuffs and a perp walk, but that isn't going to happen. The Boulder DAs office could have brought charges against JR & PR for the obstruction of justice and endangerment, but they didn't and now it's too late.

But it wasn't really a "murder" in the sense that (IMO) intent was not part of this. Yes, the R's intended to cover it up and stage the scene to throw off investigators. Yes, that is a crime because it's illegal. But *IF* Burke inflicted the head bash, it's not considered murder. He may have intended to hit her, but legally-speaking he couldn't form intent to kill.

 

[chlban]

I hesitate to make that judgment. I understand your thoughts, though. I think they were quite intimidated and possibly threatened by Team Ramsey. I believe they were talked into signing non-disclosure agreements.

Fleet White is a great example. Obviously we don't know for sure why he won't talk, but I think it's obvious that he really wants to, and has for many years. JR and PR had a damn good legal team, and a lot of money, if nothing else.

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Yes, I think there were threats and intimidation and, as I said, I can certainly understand not speaking to the press for many reasons. I believe the White's have been afraid to speak publicly due to threats, but no one can be sued for speaking to LE. No One. And the Whites have cooperated with them since day one.

I guess what I find amazing is that there seem to be many friends that did not even question why the Ramsey's, or their minions would tell them not to cooperate with LE. It is a huge red flag as it clearly was to Fleet White. Maybe the bought them off, I really don't know. It just makes no sense to me.

 

[TsulaNC]

YES! Great observation. This has always amazed me! WTH was he supposedly doing during the call, twiddling his thumbs? He's way too "in charge" to have delegated such a crucial task to PR if he believed JBR had been kidnapped. I don't even think he would have called the police (if she had been kidnapped). He would likely have "handled it" himself or with his peeps. Or if he did call LE, he would have made sure their presence and involvement would have remained clandestine. There's no way he would have allowed marked police cars and family friends all over the property if he believed she had been kidnapped.

She had a "performance" based background. I think he knew her voice, emotional response, etc would be much more believable than his own. He delegated in on purpose imo. I think now, especially after last night's show, he was standing nearby watching her performance.


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[DatelineFan]

Yes, I think there were threats and intimidation and, as I said, I can certainly understand not speaking to the press for many reasons. I believe the White's have been afraid to speak publicly due to threats, but no one can be sued for speaking to LE. No One. And the Whites have cooperated with them since day one.

I guess what I find amazing is that there seem to be many friends that did not even question why the Ramsey's, or their minions would tell them not to cooperate with LE. It is a huge red flag as it clearly was to Fleet White. Maybe the bought them off, I really don't know. It just makes no sense to me.

Yes, very good points! I agree with you. Most people should see a problem with the parents of a murdered 6 year old not wanting anyone to talk.

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