The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[johnjay]

I don't believe Patsy could bare to leave her outside in the cold

And I don't see her or John garroting JBR either.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I am listening to the first episode now (I missed the beginning last night) and I am up to the 911 call. I have never been 100% convinced what people say they hear is definitely what is said so I wanted to hear other people's opinions. After listening to the episode I think I hear the 2nd voice (Patsy?) say "What did you see?" and the third voice (Burke?) saying "What did you see?" Anyone else?

I couldn't hear any of that,

 

[Linda7NJ]

She would also be protecting her reputation as a parent. J & P may have also felt guilt about not dealing with whatever issues B had.

And basically that's what they were charged with- they knew Burke had issues. I'd bet from the tone of the ransom letter John had minimized the problem & patsy blamed him


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[HarmonyE.]

From what I saw, they didn't do a very good job dealing with the garrote. And that hurts the credibility of their theory. They seem to suggest that the parents were responsible for the garrote - I'm not buying that. I'm wondering how many people will.

I've always bought it. They had to make it look like a sadistic pedo killing to distract from what really happened. And it worked. Like the note, they had to use what they had on hand.

 

[Kay0315]

Wow, learned some new things from the program. No sexual assault. The blood drop on panties possibly a transfer? No circulation when the train track marks were done. Patsy supposedly told someone that Burke was angry when JonBenet was hit with the golf club. And, everything indicates more than one person doing the staging. What I didn't understand is their stance on the strangulation. Do they believe that was staging or something Burke did? One interesting thing was Burke "beep beeping" when asked how he was carrying on, and he did the same thing when Fleet White asked if he knew what happened to JonBenet.

Burke was moving on by playing his new Nintendo games, beeb beeb, just making
sound effects.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not charged with, indicted for ...


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[Linda7NJ]

And I don't see her or John garroting JBR either.

I think John handled that part


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[johnjay]

Yes. Many times, been studying this case for years.

If she was strangled before her skull was wounded, then how was it that the brain slowly bled the way it did? But don't take my word for it...


Ronald Wright, MD "director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine, reviewed JonBenet's autopsy report Tuesday at the request of the Rocky Mountain News." RMN stated: "The blow to her head

The CBS show didn't deal with this aspect very well. And it's important.

 

[otg]

otg,


Given the date, whats that three days after her death, and patently Burke should know no details regarding how JonBenet died, i.e. he's not read the Autopsy Report?

Yet he is debating the manner of JonBenet's asphyxiation with Doug Stine!

Thats why I reckon JonBenet was manually strangled and that the ligature and paintbrush has been added as staging.


.

So you're saying you conclude she was manually strangled because "Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death?" Okay.

But yes about anything about strangulation (of any nature) being known by Burke and Doug just 2-days after her death. That's only the day after her autopsy had been performed and even before Meyer had finished writing it.

 

[bettybaby00]

I haven't visited here in quite awhile. Hello to everyone I used to discuss this case with!!!

I thought it was a 6 hour series? Did they cut it down to just two segments?

It was very well done, but they left quite a bit out, especially any detailed analysis of the staging. I gather from the comments that L. wood has his panties twisted and possibly that is why certain aspects of the case weren't discussed. Additionally they didn't cover the DNA much except for the blood stain in the panties, and even that wasn't done in any great detail.

Watching Burke's interview right after the event was chilling.

My mind is blown over the fact that they seemed to gloss over the sexual assault evidence. They don't believe a sexual assault happened that night...ok, but what about the evidence that there had been prior abuse? They seemed pretty sure of it at the time of her autopsy, and other forensic experts that studied the case after the fact seemed convinced as well?

I was also pretty impressed that they had a 10 year old boy reenact the head blow, completely discrediting the long argued stance that a boy of that age could inflict such a blow.

 

[txsvicki]

I can't help but think that whoever hit JonBenet in the head also strangled her. I could see staging with the duct tape over the mouth and wrist cords, but the garotte would be overkill and not even necessary to try and stage a sexual assault. I'm kind of with Warner Spitz on it not being accidental. Also, they discussed the idea of no adult would use a train track to jab a child and try to wake her, and Spitz said there was no circulation at that time. So, JonBenet would have had to of already been strangled and dead when jabbed with the train track.

 

[Madeleine74]

Both Spitz & Lee were adamant that the evidence from JBR does not show a sexual crime. They said the the sliver of wood found was microscopic. They think a sexual motive was not what this crime was about -- it was the head blow as a result of anger/rage in the moment.

All the investigators agreed that the garrotte was part of the staging -- that it was designed to make it look like an adult did the crime. The whole focus was to take attention away from the remaining child, who they were trying to protect.

The head bash was the primary cause of what transpired. They believe that was done by BR.

Everything else, *everything* was staging after that and did not involve BR, they postulate.

 

[johnjay]

I can't help but think that whoever hit JonBenet in the head also strangled her. I could see staging with the duct tape over the mouth and wrist cords, but the garotte would be overkill and not even necessary to try and stage a sexual assault. I'm kind of with Warner Spitz on it not being accidental. Also, they discussed the idea of no adult would use a train track to jab a child and try to wake her, and Spitz said there was no circulation at that time. So, JonBenet would have had to of already been strangled and dead when jabbed with the train track.

You hit on all my issues with the show.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm going with the experts who have actual training and years of experience versus the Interwebs on this.

Instead of coming up with every possible iteration and running themselves in circles, they just followed the evidence as they could.

The DNA on the panties was not part of the crime -- it was left during manufacture. DNA can be transferred between items that are in close contact (underwear to long johns).

The train track jabbing was done after the head bash and it did not bleed, but had a central defect -- they theorize it was a way of 'testing' whether JBR was really unconscious and it's something a child would do versus an adult. So they think BR did that (it was not part of the coverup).

 

[HarmonyE.]

He may win.

Lin Wood won't sue. He isn't likely to win as John - and by virtue of his Dr. Phil interview - now Burke are voluntary public figures who would have to show actual malice on the part of CBS to prevail. There was no malice.

And CBS would fight a civil suit. Meaning Burke would probably be the first person called to testify under oath. I can't see that going well for the Ramseys

Although I hope he does sue. JonBenet deserves for the truth of what happened to her to finally come out in court, even if its a civil court.

 

[TartLemon]

I had it recorded. Just finished watching. NEVER wanted to believe Burke did anything to JonBenet. I'm stunned. From the POV of JR or PR, what's the point of having Burke labeled a murderer for the rest of his life since he could not be prosecuted? When JR was gone for a 1½ hrs, could he have been consulting an attorney friend? Attorney/client privilege would preclude an attorney from saying so. The attorney would also know or have access to the info about the age which could be prosecuted in Colorado.

I've been muddling through the 'evidence' for 20 years trying to make sense of it. Whatever I could find on the net. First, having to decide if it was conjecture or REAL evidence. This is the first time I've been taken through it timeline and all from the 911 call. If Lin Wood wants to file a lawsuit, let him. I'd love to know what these people got WRONG. Bring it. In the meantime, perhaps JR and Burke need to consider earning $$ at a real job besides this.

 

[johnjay]

I'm going with the experts who have actual training and years of experience versus the Interwebs on this.

Instead of coming up with every possible iteration and running themselves in circles, they just followed the evidence as they could.

The DNA on the panties was not part of the crime

The problem is that other experts with the same data come to very different conclusions. In the end, we have to cherry picks the experts we believe. I even remember one world class expert who claimed the garrote was part of some sex game!

 

[HarmonyE.]

So you're only going to acknowledge that one line? Got it. Won't waste my time.

Not directed to me, but it's a safe bet that 8 inch hole and crack in her small skull rendered her unconscious.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The CBS show didn't deal with this aspect very well. And it's important.

I think it's important to remember that one third of the show was edited out just recently.

I'll buy the uncut DVD....

 

[Kay0315]

I think you feel the police are out to get the wrong people. If the Ramseys where innocent and had immediately sat down separately with police, their stories would be exactly the same. Their time lines would coincide and their waking hours could be accounted for. There is absolutely nothing to be afraid of if you are innocent. Nothing!

Are you kidding, there are people who have spent years of their life in prison and then finally cleared years later through DNA tests.