The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[garthmax]

What just astonished me was the picture of the family with JB sitting on JR lap (JB has on the black and white checkered dress with the red collar) and PR next to them but BR is standing in the back of PR.. How BR is not part of the family but looking in.

 

[Sphinx]

Lin Wood won't sue. He isn't likely to win as John - and by virtue of his Dr. Phil interview - now Burke are voluntary public figures who would have to show actual malice on the part of CBS to prevail. There was no malice.

And CBS would fight a civil suit. Meaning Burke would probably be the first person called to testify under oath. I can't see that going well for the Ramseys

Although I hope he does sue. JonBenet deserves for the truth of what happened to her to finally come out in court, even if its a civil court.

When I watched Dr. Phil explaining that the constant smile on BR's face during his interview was due to nerves, I thought it was just damage control so he could not be sued for saying what he probably felt was obvious, that the kid is a psychopath, and Dr. Phil may have promised in his contract with JBR and BR ( I assume he always has a legal contract with guests on his show ) that he would present BR in a very fair light, not psychologically diagnosing him . I wonder if BR and JR were payed, and how much ? Dr. Phil's ratings were very high for these shows, and I think the first shows in the Fall are very significant in ratings evaluations. I believe CBS was very careful with their experts dealing in facts, and not appearing to show malice. Also they had good disclaimers at the end of the show. I hope the other 2 hours becomes available. It would make a block-buster special for tv, or maybe they will even use it for Netflix, or special streaming. The ratings for this show were extremely high, beating even sports specials on at the time. I don't think they will want to waste that momentum and interest. It was a thoroughly professional, and highly intelligent investigation. I thought the whole 4 hours was just riveting, and they answered many questions for me. I have been following this case since 1996. If they are given a crime show of their own, you can bet I will be watching . Burke and John Ramsey are going to have a hard time living out the rest of their lives, especially BR. Who is ever going to respect or trust him now ? Maybe it is a kind of " OJ justice " IMO

 

[MaryMac250]

In another case I remember someone said that our fingernails will continue to grow some even after heart stops. Same with hair I believe.

Does a body involuntarily digest food for a little bit after the heart stops?
If so, do we know how long a body may continue to digest?

Good question.

 

[bxbbysoxer]

In another case I remember someone said that our fingernails will continue to grow some even after heart stops. Same with hair I believe.

Does a body involuntarily digest food for a little bit after the heart stops?
If so, do we know how long a body may continue to digest?

Hair and fingernails is supposedly a myth related to the skin shrinking back from the fingernails after death or something like that, I'd say that digestion also stops with death.

 

[garthmax]

In another case I remember someone said that our fingernails will continue to grow some even after heart stops. Same with hair I believe.

Does a body involuntarily digest food for a little bit after the heart stops?
If so, do we know how long a body may continue to digest?

The body would stop digesting the minute the heart stop, but you could go back in time by looking at the stomach contents and perform an experiment by eating pineapple and purging until you see the same consistency of the digested pineapple at the time of autospy.

 

[wildebeest]

I totally agree, if only they would of said it was a terrible accident, Burke would of gotten the help he really needed. No cover up and lies needed. 20 years of lies and money wasted just so Ramsey's could pretend to be a perfect family. So very dysfunctional...........aging beauty queen and a millionaire............

Yes, so dysfunctional. AND, if Dr. Spitz is correct, and BDI, it angers me to see the many lives, careers, and families, that have been impacted by this tragedy, to good hearted people trying to solve this crime. WHY? Just to keep the facade of a perfect little family? To me, this is a crime, and there should be some sort of punishment.

IMHO

 

[Nick No Nora]

So let's say that the truth is close to the scenario suggested last night - BDI-accidental, parental cover up, no sexual misconduct.

I know that people here really dislike the Ramseys. But personally, under those circumstances, I would feel nothing but empathy for them. I'm not saying everything they did was right or wise or kind. But to me, it would be outweighed by the incredibly horror that they found that morning.

I'm less empathetic to Alex Hunter, because I can't tell if his motives were entirely political, or alternatively if he knew what happened and his actions were also merciful. But I would agree with him, I don't think (in this scenario) it would be a realistically prosecutable case against the parents. I doubt you would be able to find 12 people to convict the Ramseys for protecting their son under those circumstances. And ultimately, I'm not sure that justice would be served by imprisoning them, honestly. I don't think JBR would have wanted to see her entire family go to jail for what happened.

Obviously, if you change the factors I listed at the beginning of the post, then my opinion could change.

 

[buggiegirl]

Well Said

And Burke won't hold up well if they decide to sue so I would say let them sue , he was a liability at age 9 and he is a bigger one at 30 as it can not be spun as he is a akward little boy who's sisters been murdered.

Plus people who would have possibly gone easy on him because he was a small child back when it happened are no longer going to go easy on him since he is now an adult. The whole thing would have been so much better for everyone if the truth had been told back when it happened. Sure he had a normalish life until now, but look what he's going through now! He could be totally anonymous if they'd admitted it and gotten him help back then.

 

[Dogface]

My brother and I were watching the second part, didn't get to finish yet...but one thing that we started discussing is, if your nearly 10 year old son did this, how do you go on living with him without some level of fear? My brothers were all bigger than my mom by the time they were 12. If I thought my son was a killer, living with him would be very frightening IMO, regardless of my level of love for him.

 

[buggiegirl]

It was discussed on the CBS show last night. I believe they said it was a housekeeper in the Ramsey house who once discovered the softball sized mass of feces in JBR's bed. I have heard about feces being smeared on the Christmas candies in her room before this in different articles. IMO

That so would have been my last day on the job if I was that housekeeper!

 

[MaryMac250]

If i understood what the theory of the investigators on the show was about, they were alluding to the scenario that JBR had died from the blow to the head from blunt force trauma, and she was already deceased when whatever was jabbed into her back, train track?, had happened. So that would mean all the rest was staging?

Yep. And, of course, that leaves all other kinds of questions. How early on did this staging start? Were JR and PR in on that from the beginning? Yes. How could Burke have done all that? Moving the body? He might have been able to sort of fashion the garrote....but, frankly..... One nagging question I do have is, if he is actually asking "Did (or where did) you find her? On the 911 call, why would he be asking that? Ugh! This is such a mess!

 

[moonriverfarm]

Burke Ramsey might be one of the most disturbed children i have ever seen, and is still disturbed as an adult.
And Occam's Razor here....there was no intruder. this was an inside job. the parents' reactions in that laughable TV interview spoke volumes. JB is as detached as if he were speaking about the loss of the gardener. Patsy is obviously on a trail load of pharmaceutical support. There was no grief, no real emotion from these people that would be appropriate for parents whose child had been murdered under their noses in their own home. Burke's odd squirming in the interviews, his inappropriate geeking behavior and his inconsistencies in responses combined with the fact that he played with doo-doo makes for one deranged psycho-kid, capable of this crime.

 

[wildebeest]

So, has Lin Wood filed his lawsuit, yet? :drumroll:

 

[Karinna]

Yep. And, of course, that leaves all other kinds of questions. How early on did this staging start? Were JR and PR in on that from the beginning? Yes. How could Burke have done all that? Moving the body? He might have been able to sort of fashion the garrote....but, frankly..... One nagging question I do have is, if he is actually asking "Did (or where did) you find her? On the 911 call, why would he be asking that? Ugh! This is such a mess!

Perhaps BR didn't move the body and JBR was wherever BR hit her on the head and wherever that was i don't know. He could easily have got one of his train tracks from where they were to see if he could wake JBR up.

 

[andreww]

I have a problem with it being an inside job. I just can't write that script once Burke hits Jonbenet, and the parents find her. Let's look at that. They find Burke has hit her, her eyes are rolling and she is brain dead. So Mum or Dad goes out and ties a rope around her neck and finishes the job. And Mum goes off to write the ransom note. About 6/7 hours later they ring the police. They have not slept. For then next decade, not one of them, no matter the pressure bought to bear, confesses. Surely after all that time, one of them would have turned on the the other two. If the cover up was the mother's idea, the father would eventually break down, and vice versa. The boy would be much more traumatized if he did it and lived through all that. Unless he had a major personality disorder - which has never come out. Being awkward and shy is hardly the same as being a psychopath.

The mother finds her dying daughter and garrotes her to cover up an accident?!

If such a thing happened, the parents would be in hysterics, trying mouth to mouth (DNA), calling for help. The boy would be totally traumatized by the consequenses of what he did, and his parents reactions. The parents would convince themselves it was an accident as they explained what happened to the police. This approximations sort of rings true. The cover-up script makes no sense regarding basic human nature.

We are never going to know what actually happened because we have no help from the people that were actually there. Yes, it is a messed up line of thinking, but far more believable than thinking an intruder did this. The Ramseys have been unhelpful to LE and the have outright lied on many occasions. To think that some intruder would do this, and coincidentally the family just happens to lie and deceive the police just doesn't add up.

On the CBS special the neglected to mention several pieces of evidence, specifically the size 12 panties and the fact that JBs groin area had been wiped clean. Yes the blood spot was small on the size 12s, but how much blood was on the panties she was wearing? Why was she wiped down? I think it is safe to say that there was some sort of inappropriate behaviour. Former Ramsey maids have said that Burke was caught beneath JBs bed covers.

So now you are Patsy Ramsey and you find your dead daughter bleeding from the vagina with bro marks from the train track in her back and neck. How do you call 911 in this situation?

 

[Lyall0814]

I remember watching him for most of the show thinking 'speak up!!' Even when he finally did throw out a theory, it still felt very held back. Like when he did that AMA a bit ago.

I think Kolar looked uncomfortable mostly and sometimes very uncomfortable, and I don't blame him as the CBS production is astonishingly provocative. They must be hoping legal action will be taken.

 

[Karinna]

My brother and I were watching the second part, didn't get to finish yet...but one thing that we started discussing is, if your nearly 10 year old son did this, how do you go on living with him without some level of fear? My brothers were all bigger than my mom by the time they were 12. If I thought my son was a killer, living with him would be very frightening IMO, regardless of my level of love for him.

I think BR's anger/hate was with his sister because she stole away the attention from him, IMO. And wasn't he in therapy?

 

[HarmonyE.]

I remember watching him for most of the show thinking 'speak up!!' Even when he finally did throw out a theory, it still felt very held back. Like when he did that AMA a bit ago.

I felt the same way. But Kolar has said he is very shy and unlike several of the others (yeah, I'm looking at you, Henry and Werner) he does not have TV experience.

 

[Hatfield]

Hair and fingernails is supposedly a myth related to the skin shrinking back from the fingernails after death or something like that, I'd say that digestion also stops with death.

I just checked some articles about it. Most agreed about the hair and nails "appear to grow" because skin loses moisture and pulls back. This one article was interesting about the parasites involved in digestion.

"5. Digestion
It turns out that when you die, not only are you expelling stuff, you're actively making more. Or, at least, something is making more. We forget that we share our bodies with tons of other creatures, many of them beneficial. The bacteria inside your gut don't die just because you do. While plenty of them are parasitic, some of them are great aids to digestion, and do part of the work for us. They keep right on chugging, even when we're good and dead. Others eat into the lining of our intestines, making more of that gas that repulsed us all in section six, which pushes things along.

"

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5862418/10-bodily-functions-that-continue-after-death

 

[andreww]

My brother and I were watching the second part, didn't get to finish yet...but one thing that we started discussing is, if your nearly 10 year old son did this, how do you go on living with him without some level of fear? My brothers were all bigger than my mom by the time they were 12. If I thought my son was a killer, living with him would be very frightening IMO, regardless of my level of love for him.

I think the parents were aware that there was a jealousy of JB from Burke, and they likely felt a little responsible for that. Once JB was out of the picture Burke was probably fine.