The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[SyraKelly]

I think the toy was the train- something he wanted to play with- not necessarily something needing to be put together or an addition to the train he got for Christmas. We never did get bank or cc records- did we? You do add and move train tracks around and buildings and figures. That train looked wonky in the reenactment to me, the building with it, I mean. Anyone ese notice?

I am almost sure,I remember hearing John somewhere say it was a model airplane they were putting together!

 

[chlban]

Yes. Who at that point was gonna check that out? I'm talkin about if they left as scheduled before calling the police.

Key words "at that point". What happens later when they report her missing? The point was to avoid arrest and or discovery, not just delay it.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

ok I'm not sure in which thread I saw this yesterday - a pageant pic of JB with a strange mark on her upper arm.
I just found this pic also. Is this from the same pageant maybe?

 

[SyraKelly]

ok I'm not sure in which thread I saw this yesterday - a pageant pic of JB with a strange mark on her upper arm.
I just found this pic also. Is this from the same pageant maybe?



The pic with the mark was the one of her in the white sequins showgirl.

 

[elendast]

ok I'm not sure in which thread I saw this yesterday - a pageant pic of JB with a strange mark on her upper arm.
I just found this pic also. Is this from the same pageant maybe?

She had a mark on her arm that Nedra said came from a hamster cage falling on her.

 

[chlban]

Another corroborating evidence for the CBS is that no credible evidence of the intruder was found. No crushed leaves, strange cars, bits of clothings on the fence or elsewhere.
Also, a "small faction" would have went in with several people and armed AND kidnapped BOTH kids almost certainly while gagging and tying up the parents.
Also, an older boy would be more valuable than a younger girl methinks.

And why would a group descrbe themselves as a " small foreign faction"? For that matter why would kidnappers identify themselves at all?

 

[snowflakes07]

I am so sorry if this questioned was answered! But during the first part of the show, Jim and Laura went to talk with FW. Last thing I saw was them getting into the car and diving off, then my daughter woke up. Did Fleet say anything? Did he actually talk?

 

[HarmonyE.]

She said that was for the Disney cruise.

They sure didn't leave much time in the morning, what with a 7 am flight and Patsy only starting coffee at a quarter to six.

 

[BOESP]

Someone posted on a thread here the other day and I was stunned. I haven't seen any comments about the post and with apologies to the original poster, I'm going to repeat it.

Said poster noticed that when police arrived Patsy was sitting in the first floor sun room directly above the wine cellar where JonBenet was found.

Coincidence? :dunno:

 

[elendast]

They sure didn't leave much time in the morning, what with a 7 am flight and Patsy only starting coffee at a quarter to six.

Yeah, weren't they going to go straight from Michigan to wherever the cruise was departing from?? Wasn't it Florida? That's a lot of stuff and a lot of time to be packed for.

 

[Lamima]

Yeah, weren't they going to go straight from Michigan to wherever the cruise was departing from?? Wasn't it Florida? That's a lot of stuff and a lot of time to be packed for.

Yeah. I always found that odd that they had trip to Michigan and then cruise with 2 little kids and she was still getting things from the dryer that morning and they got up at like 5:30 for a 7am flight (granted it was a private personal flight so no going to airport 2 hours before flight, or pre 911 I suppose you'd get there like 45 minutes prior to flight). I am going to Disney in 10 days and I am already packing and will have luggage packed up and placed by door to garage the day before we go. So where was all their luggage? They'd have to have some form of luggage for the cruise.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Yeah. I always found that odd that they had trip to Michigan and then cruise with 2 little kids and she was still getting things from the dryer that morning and they got up at like 5:30 for a 7am flight (granted it was a private personal flight so no going to airport 2 hours before flight, or pre 911 I suppose you'd get there like 45 minutes prior to flight). I am going to Disney in 10 days and I am already packing and will have luggage packed up and placed by door to garage the day before we go. So where was all their luggage? They'd have to have some form of luggage for the cruise.

Patsy was trying to finish the packing - still in her clothes from the party - when she was interrupted. I think its a fair guess that the head blow happened not too long after they arrived home. I can see her "going psycho" when she saw what her son did.

 

[RiverRat]

I am very interested in BR's nonchalant detachment to his description of PR acting "psycho". IMO PR is one of those women who never has a hair out of place in public, but is a rage-aholic in private losing control often over minor things. JR is a successful businessman, likely a workaholic, and never home. PR ruled her roost, and BR's manner suggests PR being "psycho" or in a rage was not unusual in the home, regardless of JR's CNN interview statement about them being "gentle people". PR is an entirely different creature from her public persona when she is in the LE interview, certainly not a gentle church mom.

I disagree with the conclusion of the CBS show that BDI - I am more convinced than ever that PR did it in a "psycho" fit over the imperfection of bedwetting and/or eating pineapple with the long hours and stress of holiday activities plus the trip she still needed to pack for the whole family at the last minute. PR was living so vicariously through JBR and the beauty pageant activities, but that is a two-edged sword from a mother like that and JBR was overindulged but would also be the object of PR's feelings of failure and rage.

One other disappointment with the show - even though they replayed the CNN interview clips, none of them mention how phony PR is with "Hold your babies close" her face is crumpled but she cannot find tears, and her anger display statement to the imaginary killer is just as poor - PR is a very bad actress. The show participants seemed to find her sincere, but I see a neurotic and manipulative woman living in many lies and very skilled at putting on a phony face.

You are not alone as I stand firmly planted ~
RR

 

[TeaTime]

I've thought it odd that Patsy told the police in 1998 she didn't pack a suitcase for their planned trip that day, she was gathering clothes together for all of them in a plastic bag when she 'found' the ransom note. She said they were only going for a couple of days or so and they had clothes at the lake house. Now this was their first winter trip to the lake house, previously they had only spent summers there. So to me it seems clear they wouldn't have stored winter clothes at the lake house, and also children quickly grow out of clothes, so why leave any behind? There was a plastic bag of items dumped at the bottom of the spiral staircase, photographed that morning by police, and she said that was probably it, that she had dropped it to read the note.

I wasn't 100% certain from the interview transcript but it seemed to me that after giving her explanation for the plastic bag, the police then confronted her with a photograph taken on her own camera by someone in the family on Christmas morning, which showed the same bag she had referred to in the exact same spot already, and couldn't have been the plastic bag she was filling with clothes. She was stumped by this and couldn't work out who in the family would have taken a photo of just the hallway, but more to the point it blew her explanation.

So typical of the Rs. Confronted with evidence of her lies, she changed the subject matter to 'who would have taken photos of just a hallway?' as if that was the big mystery to be solved. I bet it was all LE could do to not laugh in her face.

 

[TeaTime]

I am so sorry if this questioned was answered! But during the first part of the show, Jim and Laura went to talk with FW. Last thing I saw was them getting into the car and diving off, then my daughter woke up. Did Fleet say anything? Did he actually talk?

First, he would not allow cameras. So they went without. When they returned, they said that FW did not want to make any statements and they implied that he was not convinced that these people were actually interested in solving the case. Seemed to me he didn't want to be any part of what we have seen up to now, the IDI specials. They said that maybe when he sees the clips, he will understand that they were in fact trying to solve the case in an unbiased way.

 

[bxbbysoxer]

First, he would not allow cameras. So they went without. When they returned, they said that FW did not want to make any statements and they implied that he was not convinced that these people were actually interested in solving the case. Seemed to me he didn't want to be any part of what we have seen up to now, the IDI specials. They said that maybe when he sees the clips, he will understand that they were in fact trying to solve the case in an unbiased way.

I do hope that he sees the special and makes a decision about coming forward, but I wouldn't blame him after what the Ramsey legal team put his family through already if he decided not to say anything.

 

[costalpilot]

Yes. IIRC the flashlight and even the batteries in the flashlight had been wiped clean of all fingerprints. I have always thought PDI, but I do think the BDI posters have identified the only other option for suspect.

A problem I have with the BDI theory was brought up by the CO lawyer interviewed. JR and PR are not ignorant people but they would not know those details about Infants under age 10 lacking intent by definition in CO law. But even lacking that info, if the death was merely the result of children's horseplay then JR and PR should have understood that honesty would be the best policy. For an affluent family without abuse or drugs/alcohol or history of arrests or CPS involvement, the result would only have been a family court judge demanding counseling for BR to age 18 - even if BDI in a rage rather than as play accident. BR would only have been removed temporarily to a psych hospital if he was removed at all. These kinds of accidents happen every day where Infants push, run, pick up a gun, hit another child intentionally or not, and some child is injured or dies. Why bother hiding it?

The staging and coverup is partly what makes me think the person who caused JBR's death was an adult because an adult is going to be held fully culpable. The dualing grand jury indictments tell me that the parents were giving such conflicting statements that LE was unclear on which parent did the murder, and which parent assisted in the coverup - not the show's implication that there was a 3rd party and that BDI. JMO the dualing grand jury indictments are meant to push the assistant into telling the whole truth against the killer to save themself, JR versus PR.

bolded by me. its hard to know what a person might think in a situation like they might have been facing. everyone is not always going to make the best choice. plus who wants to uncover a cesspool of dysfunction in your perfect family with a fancy and proper reputation? maybe not a beauty queen.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm just catching up on posts but I must say I very much enjoyed the JBR Special! For once we got it within hours of the US.

My main questions are:

Where was John when he went missing for 90 minutes?

Who decided to finish off JBR and how did they know she was beyond help?

Did the governor know JR, or who was it in a position of power over the DA influenced him to keep the case from being solved, because this was clearly political.

Thoughts on why the Maglite was on the table, perhaps they took it with them because they knew they'd be returning late and wanted to light their way back from the house to the car?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

ETA Does everyone remember series 5 of The Wire where the homicide detectives made the deaths of homeless men look like murders by applying strangulation soon after death? Perhaps JBR was dead at time of garrote.

 

[PositiveLight]

What he said about probably hearing if someone hit JonBenet with a flashlite. Experts, I believe Spitzer, has said that there would have been a very loud noise when the skull was hit and fractured. Burke must realize this now at his age, but as a child he said whoever did it took her down quietly and tiptoeing downstairs.

IMHO i believe if there was a loud sound of the impact, Burke wouldn't have heard it considering how far apart their bedrooms are. That house was a dang maze!