eileenhawkeye
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 8,755
- Reaction score
- 132
The Dec date is for the preliminary hearing. The judge will decide whether there is enough evidence to send the case to trial. Both sides get to make arguments.
The Charges Against Jesse Leroy Matthew
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
- Status
The Dec date is for the preliminary hearing. The judge will decide whether there is enough evidence to send the case to trial. Both sides get to make arguments.
Without the body, LE had better have some very good evidence. Though the list of JM's deeds are long and damning, IMO, here is what it can come down to:
JM met Hannah at the mall and she willingly accompanied him to his car (if they have that much which I believe they do). He gave her a ride and dropped her off and that's that. He does not have to say where or what happened before the drop off, or how he dropped her off or what condition. HE does not have to say anything, and there really is no motivation to do so, since it can and will be used against him. It's up to the DA to prove whatever theory he might have that happened and without the body, there is no way he can even say where he took Hannah. Can't say whether or not she went willingly or anything. WIthout a whole lot more, I don't see any other charges in this case.
Now if LE gets working on the MH case, that might be a whole other story. But the time is ticking away in terms of finding Hannah, and without it, there are other stories, unlikely though we may say, could very well be possible.
JM met Hannah at the mall and she willingly accompanied him to his car (if they have that much which I believe they do). He gave her a ride and dropped her off and that's that. He does not have to say where or what happened before the drop off, or how he dropped her off or what condition. HE does not have to say anything, and there really is no motivation to do so, since it can and will be used against him. It's up to the DA to prove whatever theory he might have that happened and without the body, there is no way he can even say where he took Hannah. Can't say whether or not she went willingly or anything. WIthout a whole lot more, I don't see any other charges in this case.
Now if LE gets working on the MH case, that might be a whole other story. But the time is ticking away in terms of finding Hannah, and without it, there are other stories, unlikely though we may say, could very well be possible.
Right now he doesn't have to say anything. But eventually he will have to. And you can bet your *advertiser censored* that the DA is going to work hard to come up with the right questions to put him away.
Good follow up questions/points to my original one. In my perfect world, she will be found quickly, all evidence will clearly point to the same place, and justice will be served with one trial.
However, given how easy it seems to be to hide women in that area, I think reality is that my perfect scenario is a long shot.
But then MH was found in a hard to find locale.
I think this is why the DA was reluctant to have JM arrested. They are going to have to move along with what they have in a certain time period. It may well end up with the MH charges being easier to prove, depending on the DNA matches they get on JM and MH.
cluciano63
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2010
- Messages
- 41,198
- Reaction score
- 27,312
Watching a case now and police are suspicious of a man, of his friend's murder, but don't have anything to arrest him on. Still, they take him to the station and put him in an interrogation room, asked questions and found reason at arrest him from what he said. I still wonder why LE was able to get multiple warrants and yet could not bring him in for a talk, on that Friday.
zapped
New Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,105
- Reaction score
- 9
Perhaps the evidence they found in the car needed a more thorough forensic examination to be 100 percent sure.
Early on this thread someone pointed out where a window looked like it been cracked from the inside of JLMs car. Now Im wondering if what LE saw were signs of a physical struggle inside.What appears to be cracks at a first glance could have been oil from someones hair or even scratch marks on a tinted window...as in someone clawing desperately to get out.
This is pulled from post 602 in the 9th general thread. Also note the 5 on the inspection sticker. Ran out in May.
Mods if this is in the wrong place please feel free to move to the appropriate forum. Been up for 30 hours straight and cannot sleep.
zapped
New Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,105
- Reaction score
- 9
Snipped by me for brevity and relevance.
vo·lu·mi·nous (v-lm-ns)
adj.
1. Having great volume, fullness, size, or number: a voluminous trunk; a voluminous cloud.
2. Filling or capable of filling a large volume or many volumes: the voluminous court record of the long trial.
3. Ample or lengthy in speech or writing.
4. Having many coils; winding.
Not one piece of evidence (1), not a couple of pieces (2) and not a few pieces (3).
A large number of pieces of evidence inside JLMs car.
If this is true then posters who surmised that JLM was careless and sloppy are correct.
For all we know JLM may have been planning to sell this car for scrap metal to get rid of it and LE simply got there first.
This may even be enough to obtain a conviction without a body.
Sorry, giggling, but the breaking news of him being questioned before, the cab he was driving the night MH disappears being found, makes me understand Longo's strange response to the question of him having a record of, "He is known to police."
eileenhawkeye
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 8,755
- Reaction score
- 132
What is up with all the leaks in this case? I am really baffled as to why we are learning significant information on the regular 2 weeks after JM was arrested. Every day...there is something new. What is the point? Why is this all being released?
helpfulcharlie
Probably not the real Chuck Finley
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,234
- Reaction score
- 11,762
It really puts it into perspective, doesn't it? I think I called that one a little bit early. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ther-Possible-Victims&p=11019259#post11019259
He wasn't interviewed regarding the MH case- Va State Police have issued a statement tonight, to contradict those reports..
https://twitter.com/MikeNBC12
Thanks. I'm looking for it but can only find two Virginia MSM sources reporting it. I don't doubt it, though, which is unfortunate. Clears up the whole thing about whether or not it was reported that MH got in a cab, I suppose.
themom
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2014
- Messages
- 627
- Reaction score
- 3
Just like in AMs case...I cannot wait to hear what they have from the car.
Do you know if they keep HGs parents well informed about evidence as it arises?
Police have no obligation to read you any of your rights or tell you of them for questioning until you are under arrest. Your prospects change drastically when you lawyer up. Amazing how little you have to say to the police. If you listen to what they say when asking you to come to the station for questions or if you will answer some questions on the spot, you'll see that you don't have to say a thing if you don't want to do so. Even after you are arrested. But you have to get your own attorney most of the time. That LE participated in getting a lawyer for JM to talk to when he wasn't being arrested, is unusual. They may have hoped they'd get something out of him if they did and maybe JM said he would talk to them with a lawyer. Given LE did not even have enough evidence to charge him with anything, they may have been willing to do extra in hppes of getting anything.
OldSteve
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 4,946
- Reaction score
- 184
Copying over from the news thread:
Seems to be too much focus on linking JM to Morgan's case, and others; giving IMO the impression that the case against JM for Hannah is not strong and LE is looking for an easier case to try him on...
I still think about the guy who was following Hannah and ducked into a store-way as she passed by and then mentioned to LE some guy who did not fit JM's description....
Seems to be too much focus on linking JM to Morgan's case, and others; giving IMO the impression that the case against JM for Hannah is not strong and LE is looking for an easier case to try him on...
I still think about the guy who was following Hannah and ducked into a store-way as she passed by and then mentioned to LE some guy who did not fit JM's description....
Evie Ivy Over
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2014
- Messages
- 743
- Reaction score
- 1
I totally agree with you, OldSteve. I hope LE is paying more attention to details that would involve other possibilities; it seems like everyone is making all the pieces fit around JM rather than looking for additional scenarios. Maybe JM is responsible for HG's disappearance, but if he's not a lot of precious time has been wasted in the quest to locate HG.
klily444
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2014
- Messages
- 1,577
- Reaction score
- 39
I didn't catch Coy's report that day. Who said the evidence was voluminous? Was it Coy himself, JM's lawyer, or LE?
(modsnip)
I'm saying that LE has announced a forensic link to MH that gave them a new avenue to pursue in the MH investigation. They have not said anything further to my knowledge, and if they have, I would like to read it.
We've already been chastized by mods to provide sources, not to spread rumors. I'm simply asking for your source.
I'm further saying they have said nothing regarding JM and Fairfax at all.
The shoe is probably going to drop on JM, yes. But as of now, we can't just state as fact that LE has positively ID'ed JM as the perp in both Fairfax and MH through a DNA match. That simply isn't true as far as I know. And if it is, please support it with a source.
With MH, it was five months before DNA came back (from her shirt). At the time they announced the "forensic link" to MH, they had had JM's DNA for five days
It could be a DNA match to MH's shirt and therefore have nothing to do with Fairfax. Perhaps he walked past it and spit on it because he didn't like the band. Read below.
"Why eight months?
Why did it take so long to get a DNA match? Geller has long said DNA testing can take up to six months for the overburdened Virginia state crime lab to complete, even in a high profile case like Morgan Harrington's. She declines to say exactly when police received the results or even what type of forensic evidence was tested.
Ralph Barfield, a retired Charlottesville police sergeant and founder of Blue Ridge Forensic Services, doesn't doubt her explanation.
"In Virginia, there's such a huge backlog," says Barfield. And the complexity of DNA testing can slow things down even more, he says, especially if the sample is small or of poor quality.
For the first three months of the Harrington case- prior to the January 26 discovery of her remains- investigators had little to go on other than the witness accounts that placed Morgan at various points ending with her hitchhiking on the Copeley Road Bridge at 9:30pm, about an hour after she somehow ended up outside the Arena during a Metallica concert and was denied reentry. Her purse and battery-less cell phone, which were discovered the next day in the RV lot by Lannigan Field by a men's lacrosse player, yielded no clues, police have said, but a t-shirt, discovered in mid-November on a bush outside an apartment building at the corner of Grady Avenue and Fifteenth Street, would provide a bizarre twist in an already confusing case.
In April, five months after its discovery, police announced that forensic evidence revealed that the Pantera t-shirt- which some believed was a lookalike shirt placed by someone unrelated to the case as a twisted joke- did, in fact, belong to Morgan. That forensic evidence, says Barfield, was most likely DNA- and, he says, a likely source for the match with the Fairfax case since extracting an assailant's DNA evidence from Morgan's decomposed remains, which were exposed to the elements for three months, would have been very difficult. (Like farm owner Bass, the UVA student who discovered the t-shirt had not yet been shown the composite sketch when a reporter showed it to him.)"
http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear
I'm saying that LE has announced a forensic link to MH that gave them a new avenue to pursue in the MH investigation. They have not said anything further to my knowledge, and if they have, I would like to read it.
We've already been chastized by mods to provide sources, not to spread rumors. I'm simply asking for your source.
I'm further saying they have said nothing regarding JM and Fairfax at all.
The shoe is probably going to drop on JM, yes. But as of now, we can't just state as fact that LE has positively ID'ed JM as the perp in both Fairfax and MH through a DNA match. That simply isn't true as far as I know. And if it is, please support it with a source.
With MH, it was five months before DNA came back (from her shirt). At the time they announced the "forensic link" to MH, they had had JM's DNA for five days
It could be a DNA match to MH's shirt and therefore have nothing to do with Fairfax. Perhaps he walked past it and spit on it because he didn't like the band. Read below.
"Why eight months?
Why did it take so long to get a DNA match? Geller has long said DNA testing can take up to six months for the overburdened Virginia state crime lab to complete, even in a high profile case like Morgan Harrington's. She declines to say exactly when police received the results or even what type of forensic evidence was tested.
Ralph Barfield, a retired Charlottesville police sergeant and founder of Blue Ridge Forensic Services, doesn't doubt her explanation.
"In Virginia, there's such a huge backlog," says Barfield. And the complexity of DNA testing can slow things down even more, he says, especially if the sample is small or of poor quality.
For the first three months of the Harrington case- prior to the January 26 discovery of her remains- investigators had little to go on other than the witness accounts that placed Morgan at various points ending with her hitchhiking on the Copeley Road Bridge at 9:30pm, about an hour after she somehow ended up outside the Arena during a Metallica concert and was denied reentry. Her purse and battery-less cell phone, which were discovered the next day in the RV lot by Lannigan Field by a men's lacrosse player, yielded no clues, police have said, but a t-shirt, discovered in mid-November on a bush outside an apartment building at the corner of Grady Avenue and Fifteenth Street, would provide a bizarre twist in an already confusing case.
In April, five months after its discovery, police announced that forensic evidence revealed that the Pantera t-shirt- which some believed was a lookalike shirt placed by someone unrelated to the case as a twisted joke- did, in fact, belong to Morgan. That forensic evidence, says Barfield, was most likely DNA- and, he says, a likely source for the match with the Fairfax case since extracting an assailant's DNA evidence from Morgan's decomposed remains, which were exposed to the elements for three months, would have been very difficult. (Like farm owner Bass, the UVA student who discovered the t-shirt had not yet been shown the composite sketch when a reporter showed it to him.)"
http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear
Conductor71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 582
- Reaction score
- 12
<snipped for space> This highlights one of the things I have trouble with in JM being a serial killer. Despite the clear similarities in MH and HG, there seems to be very little the same other than a vulnerable girl with similar general looks (both tall, slender blondes but look nothing alike). Not all serial killers leave signatures but I see that going on with MH but why not HG? Looking at MH:
Body left purposely in un mown hay field that can be accessed only on a 4x4. Did JM carry her in? Don't think his taxi would have made it in.
A distinct, expensive Svarofski crystal necklace was taken off of HM and has yet to be recovered. The perp did leave a distinctive gold bracelet found with her remains. So where is JM hiding said necklace?
Police brush off the Pantera tee shirt. I think it was a signature or F you to a lot of people. It is brazenly displayed and not far from where a witness (again discounted by LE) swears she saw HM at 3:45 am after she supposedly disappeared at around 9:30 near the arena. Her cell phone and purse found in overflow lot near arena. Whoever did this to HM knows the area super well. He started on campus, knows back roads, knows the campus. Interestingly HG's last text message is sent near where the shirt was found and there were at least two sexual assaults a block or so from same area while JM was in Texas or on way back to VA. Police say unrelated but they also said that shirt was of no significance. JM does know the area well and fits the profile for location and victim selection, but in my opinion it ends there for me.
I don't see JM as someone saving a necklace as a trophy, or brazenly displaying his victim's shirt for all the world to see. I am shocked LE does not see that as signifcant. He is batting us over the head with it. It did not just slip off of her or get dropped like a cell phone. It had to be taken off her body. The killer takes souvenirs. Does JM have a stash of those buried somewhere or were they hidden in his closet? I highly doubt it. IMO, JM does not come close to fitting that profile. He just seems like he would be happy to get laid even if he had to find a girl who might pass out or rough her up to convince her. I see it ending there. There are lots of frat boys who act like JM according to Coy Barefoot, but happen to do it every weekend in groups. They just don't get hauled in by the police and tagged as a suspect because they were seen on video with her. It is documented that HG was at a party with a young man who offered to walk her home. What is his alibi? Witnesses saw them together. What is his story? How do we know she was not slipped some sort of drug at a party? She was unsteady and disoriented before she met up with JM on the mall.
Yes, Hannah's cell phone is missing but given the magnitude of the search if it were dumped someone would have spotted it. There is also some mystery surrounding her last text. She was not physically in location she told her friends. Who sent that message. Again, it doesn't fit JM in my opinion. He is all about getting laid, the person abducting and/or raping then murdering young women, collecting trophies, and displaying them is someone else entirely, I think. JM was singled out because he was caught on video trying to hook up with a drunk girl who went missing, jump to HM, skip over to the Fairfax rapist DNA connected to HM who happens to be black. This is all LE has to go on it appears to me. Kinda explains why they can find no trace of Hannah after nearly a month of intensive searching. They are barking up the wrong tree.
- Status