The cries for help

[CathyinTexas]

They need to have more than 2 words for comparison. At least 10. And by the way to me it sounds like Zimmerman was screaming. So, IMO, if they could accurately pinpoint who was screaming it would only help Zimmerman.

I will conclude that GZ might have cried for help after he pulled out the gun with the intent to shoot. Trayvon was screaming for help, and had such an anguished cry, one of terror, imo. GZ might have done this in a mocking fashion, or for CYA purposes. He was very knowledgeable in rules regarding SYG laws and also neighborhood watch (which he knew he had broken). I say he was knowledgeable because we have heard he was majoring in criminal justice and he took part in the training/meetings of the neighborhood watch. The video we have seen of him at the police station do not support someone who was in shock or remorse, or even scared of prosecution.

 

[BiancaS]

I wish I could hear the enhanced audio, but my computer won't let me click on the audio in that report.

You're not missing much, I don't hear what they hear (but didn't really get into all the details). Waiting for more complete voice analysis, it HAS to be coming. This is too important to the case for both sides not to put a lot of effort into getting experts to analyze. And...as we have seen in that "other case," sometimes experts say what they are paid to say, which makes it that much more difficult for those of us that just want the TRUTH!!

 

[Sherbie]

According to this sound guy, there was a 30-ish second period of time that TM was begging and screaming for help. Since he was on top of GZ, the only way I can see him screaming for help is if they were struggling over the gun. (It would be kinda hard for the guy on bottom to be beating up the guy on top such that he couldn't stand up and get away - and since TM had no injuries, I don't think GZ got in too many licks, if any, on him. If TM was screaming, it was because of the gun, IMO).

So, if they were struggling over control of the gun for that period of time, it seems to me that TM's fingerprints would have turned up on the barrel of the weapon or GZ would have some scratches/bruises to his hands or wrists - something to indicate the gun was in play for that length of time and that TM was fighting for his life to gain control of it or deflect GZ's aim. As far as I know, there were no TM prints on the gun, no GZ DNA under his nails, no marks on GZ's hands or wrists to indicate such a violent struggle for the gun.

I just want the truth in this case - whatever that may be. It seems unlikely to me that TM was the one screaming for help for that period of time without some evidence of his having touched the gun or grappled with GZ's hands/wrists in an attempt to wrest it from him or deflect his aim. Also, I think "Help, he's going to shoot me!" or "He's got a gun!" might be more indicative of TM yelling, whereas a sort of generic yelling for help sounds more like a terrified person pinned down and getting their butt kicked to me.

Of course, none of that proves anything. It's just my deductive reasoning for believing it was probably GZ screaming for help. However, that still doesn't tell me who made first physical contact with the other. I'm still on the fence, but some things just make more sense one way than the other.

(I can't put any stock in either family's certainty that each heard their own son on the tape; they both have reason to claim - truthfully or not - that it was.)

 

[jjenny]

I just don't believe these sound experts at all, especially considering FBI experts say you can't figure anything from that 911 tape.

 

[CathyinTexas]

How do you know any of this is true? How do you KNOW George had the upper hand? He's six inches shorter than Trevon. Were you there? What do the eye witnesses say? And i doubt these guys are audio experts at all.

The autopsy report said Trayvon was 5'11 so he wasn't that much taller than GZ. He was lighter than GZ. Also, GZ was employed as a bouncer in the past, so he most likely knows how to fight and defend himself successfully. Trayvon, on the other hand, doesn't have that background, and friends and family said Trayvon was not a fighter.

 

[LambChop]

I just read the FBI report from the doc dump about the voice. http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor Page 147-148. I am confused. They apparently were not given the recreation with GZ yelling the same words from the same position. And when they could not find sufficient sound that was not overlapping with the phone conversation, they were told to stop. We have heard the enhanced tape that is just the yelling. Why couldn't the FBI produce the same results. We have heard the enhanced version(s) of the f-ing coons, punks, or goons part and also found them to be clear. Why were they told to stop, have the tapes perhaps been sent to a higher authority (not that I can tell you who that might be)???

I don't think the FBI testifies in local courts about voice analysis. So they may have deferred to having regular outside sources do it in this case. jmo

 

[LambChop]

The autopsy report said Trayvon was 5'11 so he wasn't that much taller than GZ. He was lighter than GZ. Also, GZ was employed as a bouncer in the past, so he most likely knows how to fight and defend himself successfully. Trayvon, on the other hand, doesn't have that background, and friends and family said Trayvon was not a fighter.

I think that was a mistake. TM looks much taller than 5'11".

 

[CathyinTexas]

Bingo!!!

He said no.
He didn't say "I can't really tell" or "it's hard to say" or "maybe" or "I don't know".

He said NO.

JMO from reading the narrative.

Well, on the Anderson Cooper interview he said that it was Trayvon's voice.

 

[CathyinTexas]

First of all this is my first post ever on WS or anywhere else, and i totally apologize if this has already been mentioned but IT DOES NOT MATTER WHOSE VOICE IT WAS THAT CRIED FOR "HELP",

how is it that nobody realizes this?

Because those cries indicate the crier was in trouble and suggests they were the victim, imo. Also, jurors will have their own opinions and gut feelings on whose voice that was which might effect their verdict, imo.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Well it could be either one or even both
this is 4 of the many possibles
1. GZ calling for help when seeing stars
2. GZ calling for help when fearing loss of control of the gun
3. TM mocking GZ's call for help (very common human trait)
4. TM calling for help when he realizes he's losing control over the gun

the only thing that matters in this case is who attacked who..

there's 100 million plus misunderstandings or arguments every day in this country but
when someone try's to kill another person that person is now a serious criminal
and that's what the rumor says TM did, trying to fracture a skull is
an attempt to kill the other person, whether they realize it or not

trayvon could have ran backwards home if he wanted, even if backed into a corner TM could easily
get by GZ, if he was scared he would have went home but he wasn't scared and chose to stop(or hide/doubleback)
and confront GZ

that's got to be a fact (according to the rumor evidence we have all heard), i have no doubt all GZ was doing was trying
to see where he was or going so he didn't look like a idiot when cops asked where the suspicious person went

Based on what I have heard from friends, family and acquaintences of the two I will agree there could have been mocking, but I believe it would have been GZ mocking Trayvon, since he didn't have any regard for the A___. jmo

 

[CathyinTexas]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852

The documents state that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.

bbm

How can the documents state the GZ called for help 14 times when it has been established that the person who was screaming can't be determined by FBI analysis?

 

[CathyinTexas]

Who was wearing the red sweater then?

"The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater"

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...yvon-martin-beating-george-zimmerman-shooting

IMO the jacket GZ was wearing looks nothing like a sweater.

Maybe some don't know that the mother of the boy said he did not know the color and the police pressured and said the color red. She believes his answer was influenced or coerced. I am sure the mother was the first person who he told his story to, and she said he didn't know what color the clothing was of the person on the bottom. Very important in my opinion.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe some don't know that the mother of the boy said he did not know the color and the police pressured and said the color red. She believes his answer was influenced or coerced. I am sure the mother was the first person who he told his story to, and she said he didn't know what color the clothing was of the person on the bottom. Very important in my opinion.

The witness who said he saw a man wearing a red top getting beat up is not the 13 year old boy. 13 year old says he only saw one person on the ground.

 

[CathyinTexas]

TM's dad would not be as sensitive to the sound of TM's voice, since he had not lived in the same home for quite some time. Was TM about 4 or 5 when the dad and mom divorced? And, don't forget, a boy's voice changes, his mom would know if she heard TM's voice. I can say from my own experience that if I hear something that my brain interprets as my son's voice I get an immediate adrenalin rush (he is deceased almost 9 years now) and look all over to find it. Thankfully that hasn't happened more than twice, because I get faint and nauseous.

TM's Dad lived in Miami and the two were very close and spent a lot of time together.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

How can the documents state the GZ called for help 14 times when it has been established that the person who was screaming can't be determined by FBI analysis?

The head detective Serino said it was Zimmerman because Mr. Martin said no when asked if that was his voice on the tape and the witnesses "John" said he saw Zimmerman yelling. Both have retracted their statements.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I think that was a mistake. TM looks much taller than 5'11".

If the me could make that kind of mistake how could anything else they say be trusted. I trust that he was 5'11. Maybe because he was slender he appeared taller than he really was in pictures.

 

[stmarysmead]

When I think of GZ crying out for help during his beating...I despair that no one intervened. It is volunteers like GZ who tutor children of other races and donate their time AND their safety to keeping their neighborhoods safe...that are unsung heroes. The fact that TM died does not change that for me.

It is tragic that no one intervened to stop the beating. A young man lost his life and now the Government (or a hate group) might take the life of another.

GZ "got involved"...when his neighborhood was under seige from thugs. If only someone had gotten involved for him and TM that night.

 

[curl_in_progress]

If the shot to Trayvon's chest was direct from front to back, I think it means that both GZ and TM were standing when the shot was fired.

I truly believe GZ was enraged about the physical altercation and had TM at gunpoint after the fight stopped. And while standing directly in front him, put the gun to TM's chest and shot him while he was screaming for help.

I don't see how he could have shot him with the trajectory described while they were fighting on the ground. That kill shot landed too straight and too perfectly, imo.

I'm still curious to find out if someone can/will testify that TM was killed instantly so that this nonsense of what he apparently said after he was shot can be proven as false. I just don't believe it.

 

[JBean]

When I think of GZ crying out for help during his beating...I despair that no one intervened. It is volunteers like GZ who tutor children of other races and donate their time AND their safety to keeping their neighborhoods safe...that are unsung heroes. The fact that TM died does not change that for me.

It is tragic that no one intervened to stop the beating. A young man lost his life and now the Government (or a hate group) might take the life of another.

GZ "got involved"...when his neighborhood was under seige from thugs. If only someone had gotten involved for him and TM that night.

Not sure how effective he was at keeping the neighborhood safe at the end of the day. KWIM?
Arming himself and looking for robbers in a residential community is foolhardy,imo and zero heroic about it.

I think a lot of people intervened-there were plenty of calls to 911 and that is really the only thing that can be done responsibly and to make sure no one else gets hurt.

It is foolish to get in the middle of an altercation, in the dark, when one does not really know what is going on. We have statements and calm and we still don't know what was going on. Imagine trying to figure out who is hurting whom in the dark-it would be impossible to know and ultimately would introduce yet another dynamic to the situation that could have ended up with more than one person being shot and killed or it could have saved Trayvon's life-but we will never know.

The trade off for protecting the community "under siege from thugs" was the death of a teen and Zimmerman getting a broken nose and arrested for murder- just not a good trade off to stop burglaries. It just isn't. I would have personally handed the burglars my TV instead-but there weren't any burglars there so I guess that would not have worked in this case.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Maybe some don't know that the mother of the boy said he did not know the color and the police pressured and said the color red. She believes his answer was influenced or coerced. I am sure the mother was the first person who he told his story to, and she said he didn't know what color the clothing was of the person on the bottom. Very important in my opinion.

The quote I posted was from John, not the boy you are referring to.