The Crime Scene and Investigation

[CeaElle]

It really looked like the LE cadets followed a trail, when they went up to the park, I agree. And chances are, that if JR *the smoker* went to the park prior or after the murder, they may have found cigarette buds. The cadets would have literally had a "field day"!

-Nin

If this refers to the Dog Park - Jarvis Rd. is on E. Terry between Imperial Pkwy and Matheson Ave, and if heading west on E. Terry, would be a left turn. The dog park entrance is at the Matheson Ave. intersection and would be a right turn. There are 5 quiet residential streets, with no street parking (meaning, if you parked on any one of those roads, you would be on someones front yard, or blocking the street) There is a bridge directly after the entrance. There is also a traffic cam at that intersection, which would record the comings and goings as well as pedestrians crossing the road...IMO it seems too risky, but then again, it is so close, you could watch the comings and goings on Jarvis Rd.

 

[Batman's Mommy]

I would think that using the pool would likely leave a lot of DNA evidence along with any blood they may have washed off (hair, fibers, etc). Plus they would have to be doing that in the dark because turning lights on would not be a good idea.

http://www.csitechblog.com/blood-at-crime-scenes/

Per the link above:

"Gifford (6) reported a case study in which bloodstains were found on the clothing of a male victim who had been discovered in water six days following his death. The author conducted experiments on bloodstained clothing in moving and stagnant water and found that bloodstains would not remain on the clothing after 30 minutes in moving water and not more than three hours in stagnant water. Certainly the action of the washing machine will dissipate blood at an even faster rate. Following his experiments, Gifford concluded that diffused blood still visible on the victim’s wet or washed clothing was deposited after the clothing was removed from the water source (in that case a stream)."

I realize that this is talking about clothing, but wouldn't the filtration system, presence of chlorine or other chemicals in the pool make it virtually impossible to determine if they had washed off in the pool? JMO, but dna found in the pool, with the exception of large amounts of human tissue, could be explained as normal considering the family use of the pool.

Again, JMO

**Added** Also, the pool may not have been tested. Given the information above, IMO, the longer the period of time that the blood has been dissipated in water, the likelihood of determining the amount may change. JMO- I'm not a pool expert, and definitely not a forensic expert. So take all of this with a grain of salt.

 

[mckazpm]

I just want to add a little content to your sleuthing...the Sievers' home has ALWAYS been lit up at night. The flood lights that are on in the evening make this home glow so bright, you can see it from Terry St. So, for what it's worth, anything that was being done outside the home that night would have been in a spot light!! They are always on!! My guess, by timer...now, don't ask if by chance they were off that night!!

 

[CeaElle]

http://www.csitechblog.com/blood-at-crime-scenes/

Per the link above:

"Gifford (6) reported a case study in which bloodstains were found on the clothing of a male victim who had been discovered in water six days following his death. The author conducted experiments on bloodstained clothing in moving and stagnant water and found that bloodstains would not remain on the clothing after 30 minutes in moving water and not more than three hours in stagnant water. Certainly the action of the washing machine will dissipate blood at an even faster rate. Following his experiments, Gifford concluded that diffused blood still visible on the victim’s wet or washed clothing was deposited after the clothing was removed from the water source (in that case a stream)."

I realize that this is talking about clothing, but wouldn't the filtration system, presence of chlorine or other chemicals in the pool make it virtually impossible to determine if they had washed off in the pool? JMO, but dna found in the pool, with the exception of large amounts of human tissue, could be explained as normal considering the family use of the pool.

Again, JMO

**Added** Also, the pool may not have been tested. Given the information above, IMO, the longer the period of time that the blood has been dissipated in water, the likelihood of determining the amount may change. JMO- I'm not a pool expert, and definitely not a forensic expert. So take all of this with a grain of salt.

FYI: Leitner creek is right next to the dog park....just saying, it would be a very secluded, dark place where one could "clean up."

 

[IM4TRUTH]

I just want to add a little content to your sleuthing...the Sievers' home has ALWAYS been lit up at night. The flood lights that are on in the evening make this home glow so bright, you can see it from Terry St. So, for what it's worth, anything that was being done outside the home that night would have been in a spot light!! They are always on!! My guess, by timer...now, don't ask if by chance they were off that night!!

Hmm, surely if the lights were ALWAYS on at night, someone would have noticed it that night and remembered the next day when they heard the news. At least, I think I would have.

 

[Satchie]

I just want to add a little content to your sleuthing...the Sievers' home has ALWAYS been lit up at night. (

Interesting. TS would have been very suspicious if she'd approached the home and the lights were off.

My theory is they would have walked through the dark backyards of the 2 properties nearest the E. Terry. The big risk would be encountering motion sensor lights/alarms and or dogs. Perhaps they knew they wouldn't encounter anything (though that seems a pretty big security lapse on the part of owners).

I can imagine the killer carrying complete cover-up gear in a duffel bag, the kind of stuff that's sold to do spray painting. Putting it on when they'd got over the fence into the Sievers backyard. Afterward, quickly removing it all to the duffel bag, then going back over the fence.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My eyes almost popped our of my head when I saw your reference to the pool! In all of the crime shows I have seen, I have never heard of someone washing up in a pool.....brilliant! I could never figured out how they washed themselves.

I am hoping they cleaned up in one of DTSs bathrooms before leaving the premises. They have a much better chance of getting the suspects DNA profile and blood from DTS when they examine the drain pipe underneath the showers or tubs or sinks.

A pool has such a vast amount of water compared to any blood holding DNA which may have been left there. I think the ratio would be too much water and would obliterate any possibility of finding evidence in the pool water. Now if they did use the pool to wash off there could be sprinkles of blood droplets or smudges on the surrounding pool deck if they did it quickly after murdering DTS.

I wonder how the shrill and loud voices tie in to the murder when that was heard much later on. Were they still there going through the home looking for something or going through the computers erasing things? I just wonder about that. It was very risky to stay in a home once they had murdered her. You would think they would leave immediately in the dark of night. That is why no one ever knows when a hit man or hit men have been on the premises when someone is murdered. They go in quietly and leave immediately afterwards as quietly as they came.

IMO

 

[mckazpm]

Hmm, surely if the lights were ALWAYS on at night, someone would have noticed it that night and remembered the next day when they heard the news. At least, I think I would have.

I would think it would be very apparent to neighbors if the lights were off because they are always on! When you turn onto Jarvis at night you immediately see the glow before you're even close to the home. I was staying at my family's residence (Jarvis) a couple of weeks ago and it's very eerie at night. I was really struck by how this home stands out and my family member had told me it has always been lit up like that...even prior to the murder. When you're standing there looking at it, it just doesn't seem possible that all of this went on in that home. Just my personal opinion, there had to be a way for someone to get into that garage/home without being seen. JMO

 

[Quiet Time]

I just want to add a little content to your sleuthing...the Sievers' home has ALWAYS been lit up at night. The flood lights that are on in the evening make this home glow so bright, you can see it from Terry St. So, for what it's worth, anything that was being done outside the home that night would have been in a spot light!! They are always on!! My guess, by timer...now, don't ask if by chance they were off that night!!

I live on a busy street. There's a cluster of us neighbors that have installed Big Mercury lights near our garage areas. These things light up the house big time..they come on as the sun goes down, dusk. They stay on till sun up.

Safe feeling knowing that it's on.

 

[human]

Gaining access to the home is an issue. Perhaps they had a key and simply went into the front door.

Doesn't everyone have motion detector lights nowadays?

 

[Paulas88]

Gaining access to the home is an issue. Perhaps they had a key and simply went into the front door.

Doesn't everyone have motion detector lights nowadays?

Im thinking JR' role, might've been to drive/drop CWW off at the crime scene, and
then... hang out at the dog park till CWW called for a pick-up.

There probably wasn't much for CWW to clean up afterwards. Once he got in the house (IMO with a key) he changed into his coveralls, footies, gloves, surgical mask...and waited. Once FINISHED, he striped off all protective ware, stuck it in a carry-all igloo ice chest (one was taken from JR' van during raid) called his partner/driver, and skedaddled out da there.

 

[human]

That makes sense

 

[howonkee]

howonkee,
Do you have any theory on how they may have cleaned up before the drive home?

I would imagine that whoever did the bludgeoning was wearing the jumpsuit over their regular clothing and then took it off right afterward and the other one maybe just did not get much blood on themselves. As far as blood getting on the perp in places other than where the jumpsuit covered, they could have worn accessories such as gloves, caps and masks and taken those things off as well and just put everything with blood in a bag or container of some sort that we know was taken with them. Then once back to their vehicle they could have had something to clean off other areas such as baby wipes.

 

[Eileen730]

Gaining access to the home is an issue. Perhaps they had a key and simply went into the front door.

Doesn't everyone have motion detector lights nowadays?

I think they pryed open the side garage door and waited for her to drive in.

 

[Eileen730]

I would think it would be very apparent to neighbors if the lights were off because they are always on! When you turn onto Jarvis at night you immediately see the glow before you're even close to the home. I was staying at my family's residence (Jarvis) a couple of weeks ago and it's very eerie at night. I was really struck by how this home stands out and my family member had told me it has always been lit up like that...even prior to the murder. When you're standing there looking at it, it just doesn't seem possible that all of this went on in that home. Just my personal opinion, there had to be a way for someone to get into that garage/home without being seen. JMO

isn't there a side garage door within the fenced in yard?
Within the fenced in area they wouldn't be seen

 

[Satchie]

I came across this article from early days of the investigation:

Thursday, WINK News spoke with a neighbor who said detectives returned to the scene last Friday. She said they asked people familiar with neighborhood – if they wanted to gain access to Sievers’ home without activating the security lights, how would they do it?

http://www.winknews.com/2015/07/16/sheriff-scott-calls-sievers-murder-fascinating-says-hes-getting-case-updates/

ie how could perps sneak through backyards?

 

[irishchook]

isn't there a side garage door within the fenced in yard?
Within the fenced in area they wouldn't be seen

Yes there is a door and they would not have been seen because they have large white fences surrounding the perimeter.

 

[cebee]

Do we know if CWW was ever at the house prior to the murder that would explain away any DNA found there?

 

[Dion]

Do we know if CWW was ever at the house prior to the murder that would explain away any DNA found there?

I think they can tell old dna (fingerprints) from old. Recent fingerprints would be more oily and old ones less so, and probably mixed with dust etc.

 

[Dion]

Quote Originally Posted by Eileen730 View Post

isn't there a side garage door within the fenced in yard?
Within the fenced in area they wouldn't be seen

Yes there is a door and they would not have been seen because they have large white fences surrounding the perimeter.

Doesn't the side door (the one that was jimmied) lead directly to the house, rather than the garage? I recollect seeing that on the blueprint of the house.