The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[Makara]

I'm confused too & don't own anything Apple, but on my samsung galaxy the time stamp is at the bottom of the message.

It maybe different for apple, but I took the time stamps to be at the top of the messages

Ie first message sent @ 4:49pm by Kerrie

Replied by Allison @ 7:59pm

Replied by Kerrie @ 9:25

& no reply from Allison

Thank you. That's how I see it.

 

[Consider]

Wow Unfolding that is confusing. Allison texted Kerry about dropping the ballgowns off after the conference.
I remember one of the girls saying along the lines of. Mum opened the door to greet us when we got home.
Im confused now as well :banghead:


The girl said she had dinner at her grandmother’s the night before and was picked up by her father. She said her mother opened the door when they arrived back home.

“I did some homework and she helped me. Then we went to bed,” she said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264

"picked up (from grandparents?) by the father" Where was GBC at dinner time on the 19th then?

 

[JAM13]

Like I said last week, the screams could have come from anyone/anywhere. It could have been from a TV, from females being randomly scared by something or people shouting/cheering etc.

The below is JMO -

She was sleeping either on the couch or in bed, he used a pillow (to keep it silent), she scratched and hit him and before he knew it it was all over.

 

[Consider]

The dinner with Ms Mollah mustn't have happened, Allison was caught up at hairdressers. She must have gone home, there just wasn't enough time, and Ms Mollah says she had dinner with Allison 3 weeks before she went missing. GBC and girls were at his parents for dinner. jmo



http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/

Could ABC have had dinner with Ms Mollah, enjoyed herself for a change and relaxed and actually not arrived home till 10pm to plonk herself on the couch for a bit of Footy show and enraged GBC in doing so?

 

[tarjessi]

Upon reading your comment Jam13 I thought of that scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest...just so horrific but certainly plausible and would leave little evidence. It would also explain the marks on G as Allison fought back. Would explain why the girls didn't hear anything. One of the daughters said they saw Dad come back in from the garage/outside. Maybe at that time he was preparing the tarp or whatever to move her body prior to heading to bed. I bet he said nothing at all to Allison about the next day, just waited until he could subdue her in bed. Would it be fairly easy for him to move her body to the car without the kids hearing a thing? Then when he laid her down beside the car to put her inside, that is when the plants from the carport became entangled in her hair. I am torn between it either happening in their bedroom late at night or outside in the carport but with minimal sound?

The damage to her shin, chipped tooth and chin could all have occurred as he was moving her body under the bridge. I doubt he moved her body with great care...

One thing I have always wondered was did he put something in the girl's drinks before bed to make them sleepy? Explains the sterile kitchen perhaps and the use of different cups??

 

[Isabellnecessary]

OT... DH and I were discussing this other day and figured that when we grew up there were on 2 x sexes now know there is about x 7 ! (we are dinosaurs !)
1. Male
2. Female
3. Male homosexual
4. Female homosexual
5. Male bi-sexual
6. Female bi-sexual
7. Unsexual/Monosexual (? I can't think of name) but none of above, prefer to be alone

I don't want to tie the thread up, but it's kind of important at the same time too. Male and female are genders. There are lots of genders but society only generally accepts two. There are people born with both genders and who then call themselves 'gender fluid' or 'gender neutral' for those who don't identify as female or male but somewhere in the middle. Gender is what makes you feel 'female' or 'male'. Therefore you can be any gender and be gay, or straight....
The rest on your list are sexual preferences... men preferring men is nothing to do with gender, that's their sexual preference as ordained by their brain, at birth.
It's tricky to get your head round, I know! Took me forever. LOL!

Anyway, back to GBC. Sorry for the misdirect.

 

[Doidy]

OT... DH and I were discussing this other day and figured that when we grew up there were on 2 x sexes now know there is about x 7 ! (we are dinosaurs !)
1. Male
2. Female
3. Male homosexual
4. Female homosexual
5. Male bi-sexual
6. Female bi-sexual
7. Unsexual/Monosexual (? I can't think of name) but none of above, prefer to be alone

Errr... There's
1. Biological sex (male/female/intersex)

2. gender (ie how you identify or feel - female/male/transgender female/transgender male)

3. Sexual orientation (straight, gay, lesbian, queer, bisexual)

Each of the three above (biological sex, gender, sexual orientation) is a totally separate thing ie all of us would have to tick a box for 1, then 2, then 3)

There endeth the lesson

 

[Isabellnecessary]

4:52pm: On Monday, the jury will visit the Kholo Creek bridge where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found on April 30, 2012.

The jury will also visit the Baden-Clays' former Brookfield home on Brookfield Road, as well as properties along nearby Boscombe Road.

Mr Baden-Clay will not attend what is termed "the view"

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-7-week-2-20140619-3af2d.html#ixzz354V4sqhx

I'm really keen for them to start asking themselves how she managed to 'commit suicide' without there being any substantial injuries to her body ... it's a big drop.

 

[Makara]

I took it as being 7:50pm as well, so wondered if she was home by than or still at the hairdressers?? Still so many unanswered questions :tantrum:

According to the first bail application charge sheet summary, Allison left the hairdresser at 6:30pm on Thursday 19 April 2012.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048041&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]

 

[LadyBird1]

I don't think Allison not replying to Kerry Ann's text means she was dead by then. The text didn't need to be replied to.

Hi Alioop. My interpretation with the texts is this:
KAW sent a text "Al hope you're well" etc at 4.50pm 19 April 2014
ABC replied with text "Of course ..." etc at 7.50pm 19 April 2014
KAW sent text "Nope all good" ...etc at 9.25pm 19 April 2014

End of communications, for whatever reason.

 

[marlywings]

According to the first bail application charge sheet summary, Allison left the hairdresser at 6:30pm on Thursday 19 April 2012.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*

And just to add a little more confusion about times...lol.

Trial Day 2...

June 11, 2014

Ms Waymouth said Ms Baden-Clay left the salon around 7pm

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi11726703.htm

 

[Liadan]

OMG - that talk about a son for heritage keeping drives me insane- even the queen has amended the constitution so a female can now ascend to the throne. So keeping a name alive should not be something that is left primarily to a male.

I mean ...for heavens sake -you need a boy to keep the family line alive. That is such a medieval concept! I would be proud that my daughters had chosen a husband wisely and were happy and I am dead set sure if their family felt our need to 'keep the family name alive' then....their decision would support naming a child in that respect. You don't have to give a child your last name.

 

[alioop]

Hi Alioop. My interpretation with the texts is this:
KAW sent a text "Al hope you're well" etc at 4.50pm 19 April 2014
ABC replied with text "Of course ..." etc at 7.50pm 19 April 2014
KAW sent text "Nope all good" ...etc at 9.25pm 19 April 2014

End of communications, for whatever reason.

Agreed.

 

[Makara]

And just to add a little more confusion about times...lol.

Trial Day 2...

June 11, 2014

Ms Waymouth said Ms Baden-Clay left the salon around 7pm

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi11726703.htm

So who do think would be more accurate and where did the 6:30pm time come from?

It just gets so confusing at times and I really wouldn't like to be a jurer in this case at all!

 

[JAM13]

Upon reading your comment Jam13 I thought of that scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest...just so horrific but certainly plausible and would leave little evidence. It would also explain the marks on G as Allison fought back. Would explain why the girls didn't hear anything. One of the daughters said they saw Dad come back in from the garage/outside. Maybe at that time he was preparing the tarp or whatever to move her body prior to heading to bed. I bet he said nothing at all to Allison about the next day, just waited until he could subdue her in bed. Would it be fairly easy for him to move her body to the car without the kids hearing a thing? Then when he laid her down beside the car to put her inside, that is when the plants from the carport became entangled in her hair. I am torn between it either happening in their bedroom late at night or outside in the carport but with minimal sound?

The damage to her shin, chipped tooth and chin could all have occurred as he was moving her body under the bridge. I doubt he moved her body with great care...

One thing I have always wondered was did he put something in the girl's drinks before bed to make them sleepy? Explains the sterile kitchen perhaps and the use of different cups??

Phenergan could have been used. Tablets could have easily been crushed into a dessert for the girls. I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone waking up in my house while I was killing someone and moving their body while people are sleeping just a few rooms away. I would be FREAKING out that they are going to wake up (to go and get a glass of water or to go to the toilet) and would need them to be fast asleep.

The questions I really want to know are -

1. What is the blood from? Is it from the head area or from the shins? Could it just be a blood nose when he threw her in the car and her nose hit side of the car and he was unaware of this? Noses do bleed quite a fair bit when it occurs.

2. How did he move her from the couch/bed? Did he just drag her or carry her? Or was she placed into a tarp/bag? .

3. Some of our amazing sleuthers mentioned earlier today that some of the bruising from his chest/armpit area could have been from him pulling something heavy in a tarp or bag (taking body to the car) and the straps or rope was digging into his skin?

 

[Makara]

OMG - that talk about a son for heritage keeping drives me insane- even the queen has amended the constitution so a female can now ascend to the throne. So keeping a name alive should not be something that is left primarily to a male.

I mean ...for heavens sake -you need a boy to keep the family line alive. That is such a medieval concept! I would be proud that my daughters had chosen a husband wisely and were happy and I am dead set sure if their family felt our need to 'keep the family name alive' then....their decision would support naming a child in that respect. You don't have to give a child your last name.

AMEN TO THAT! Thank you Liadan.

 

[tarjessi]

Upon reading your comment Jam13 I thought of that scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest...just so horrific but certainly plausible and would leave little evidence. It would also explain the marks on G as Allison fought back. Would explain why the girls didn't hear anything. One of the daughters said they saw Dad come back in from the garage/outside. Maybe at that time he was preparing the tarp or whatever to move her body prior to heading to bed. I bet he said nothing at all to Allison about the next day, just waited until he could subdue her in bed. Would it be fairly easy for him to move her body to the car without the kids hearing a thing? Then when he laid her down beside the car to put her inside, that is when the plants from the carport became entangled in her hair. I am torn between it either happening in their bedroom late at night or outside in the carport but with minimal sound?

The damage to her shin, chipped tooth and chin could all have occurred as he was moving her body under the bridge. I doubt he moved her body with great care...

One thing I have always wondered was did he put something in the girl's drinks before bed to make them sleepy? Explains the sterile kitchen perhaps and the use of different cups??

The thing is also that Allison was not dressed in pyjamas which is why for me, I thought perhaps they went out to the car to talk at G's suggestion perhaps? Keep quiet for the children just off to bed. Maybe G told her about TM or perhaps Allison might have said she wanted a divorce (although it seemed that she was happy G had attended therapy with her recently). They have a fight and he gets her to the ground and strangles her with her jumper beside the car. G goes inside to make sure the girls are fast asleep, loads the body into the car and goes off to dump Allison's body. Either alone or with assistance...depending on if the two 4WD's following each other has anything to do with this murder or whether it is completely unrelated.

 

[steadan]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 19s

Dr Griffiths also examined Gerard on June 14, 2012. First examination was April 22. #badenclay

The court is now being shown a photograph of Gerard taken in June. He has a full beard. #badenclay

Dr Griffiths shaved part of Gerard's beard to examine the injuries. #badenclay

Dr Griffiths says there was full healing two months on but there are still markings of "healed abrasions". #badenclay

Dr G had to, he'd (GBC) already proved he was inept at shaving!!!

 

[Isabellnecessary]

Phenergan could have been used. Tablets could have easily been crushed into a dessert for the girls. I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone waking up in my house while I was killing someone and moving their body while people are sleeping just a few rooms away. I would be FREAKING out that they are going to wake up (to go and get a glass of water or to go to the toilet) and would need them to be fast asleep.

The questions I really want to know are -

1. What is the blood from? Is it from the head area or from the shins? Could it just be a blood nose when he threw her in the car and her nose hit side of the car and he was unaware of this? Noses do bleed quite a fair bit when it occurs.

2. How did he move her from the couch/bed? Did he just drag her or carry her? Or was she placed into a tarp/bag? .

3. Some of our amazing sleuthers mentioned earlier today that some of the bruising from his chest/armpit area could have been from him pulling something heavy in a tarp or bag (taking body to the car) and the straps or rope was digging into his skin?

MOO - I think those injuries were from her fighting him as he killed her. Scratch to the face, then scratching and grabbing / twisting of his skin near his armpit....eta... and whilst you're leaning over someone like that, the chest skin under the arms and around the neck is accessible and quite grabbable.

 

[tarjessi]

Phenergan could have been used. Tablets could have easily been crushed into a dessert for the girls. I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone waking up in my house while I was killing someone and moving their body while people are sleeping just a few rooms away. I would be FREAKING out that they are going to wake up (to go and get a glass of water or to go to the toilet) and would need them to be fast asleep.

The questions I really want to know are -

1. What is the blood from? Is it from the head area or from the shins? Could it just be a blood nose when he threw her in the car and her nose hit side of the car and he was unaware of this? Noses do bleed quite a fair bit when it occurs.

2. How did he move her from the couch/bed? Did he just drag her or carry her? Or was she placed into a tarp/bag? .

3. Some of our amazing sleuthers mentioned earlier today that some of the bruising from his chest/armpit area could have been from him pulling something heavy in a tarp or bag (taking body to the car) and the straps or rope was digging into his skin?

1. I can answer 1 - there can be a bit of blood present after strangling someone I believe. It can be present after a person has hung themselves also. It would be trickling out of the mouth or nose. The blood could also be from damage to her chin. I only know about the hanging scenario as I have seen this first hand when my best friend's sister committed suicide and they had to clean up. Another horrible story and imagery...I am sorry...only trying to state facts but feel insensitive mentioning them.

2. Allison was fairly light from the autopsy - around 65kgs if I remember correctly dependent on the size and strength of Gerard he might have been able to carry her over his shoulder. Makes more sense that he might have attacked her in the carport in that regard possibly due to there not being any blood in the house? Surely there would be sheets with some blood if he killed her in bed - even only minute traces.