The Death of Wayne Millard

[ArianeEmory]

when WM was alive they actually had an office manager (female) who also was a model, she placed ads and also had an internet site advertising that the Millardair hanger could be used for photo shoots that the old hanger was to be torn down in 2011 and to grab the opportunity for a great space..WM obviously knew this and maybe someone asked DM from this business venture if he would like to take some photos. He was only in his early 20's at this point. I dont think the Waterloo Hanger had nearly as many toys as the one at Pearson from the looks of the FB photos

http://eryngombos.wix.com/eryns-workshops#!__page-3

Thanks. Since I obviously failed to realize there were multiple sketchy hangars involved:

1) Does this mean NONE of the 'big boy toys' photos we have seen on FB (jeeps, planes, helicopter, woodchippers, classic cars, trucks, etc) were actually at the 'new' hangar being discussed?

2) The 'new' hangar was the place where the stolen Harley was recovered, right? And where we have received various reports of 'hundreds' (or possibly tens) of stolen vehicles (or possibly parts)?

 

[swanna]

Thanks. Since I obviously failed to realize there were multiple sketchy hangars involved:

1) Does this mean NONE of the 'big boy toys' photos we have seen on FB (jeeps, planes, helicopter, woodchippers, classic cars, trucks, etc) were actually at the 'new' hangar being discussed?

2) The 'new' hangar was the place where the stolen Harley was recovered, right? And where we have received various reports of 'hundreds' (or possibly tens) of stolen vehicles (or possibly parts)?

Do we know when the new hanger started being built (month). From what I see most of the hanging out and taking the cars apart etc. and going to Baja Race happened from 2010 thru June 2011 at the old hanger.

But yes the motorcycle and trailer were found at the new hanger and no exact confirmation how many/or other stolen vehicles were there. Not sure of exact wording from Kavanagh but something like less than 10 were being looked at. :moo:

 

[Blomquist]

This whole DM is a well spoken, wealthy businessman thing just never makes sense to me. Unfortunately, people died and there will be justice, the perpetrators of the crime(s) will be punished and an understanding of the "why" will eventually come to light. DM may have been the boss of the hangar. AS states that DM was looking after the construction. A couple things to make things clear.
An AMO is a service business that does maintenance on Aircraft. The price of a regular 737 is approximately 74 Million to 107 Million US dollars. Source: http://www.b737.org.uk/sales.htm The average annual maintenance cost for a 737 is approx $350,000 Source: http://www.team.aero/images/aviation_data_insert/Owners_OperatorsGuide_737NG.pdf
DM needed to impress the owners of these planes much more then the owners impressing him. He needed the contracts...the contracts didn't need him. More so than ever, AS had to be able to sell DM and the Hangar to potential customers. There's lots more AMO's around. DM never had an aviation business...ever. He had a hangar and an AMO certificate. The millions of DM had no meaning to companies that have MILLIONS invested in each plane and spends millions annually maintaining them. MOO

Actually if AS was hired to get the contracts then AS would have been the one needing wear a suit, tie and slicked back hair. You don't get a dog and bark yourself ! JMO/MOO

I wonder if Mr Sharif's real first name is Omar.... MOOO

 

[Carli]

Do we know when the new hanger started being built (month). From what I see most of the hanging out and taking the cars apart etc. and going to Baja Race happened from 2010 thru June 2011 at the old hanger.

But yes the motorcycle and trailer were found at the new hanger and no exact confirmation how many/or other stolen vehicles were there. Not sure of exact wording from Kavanagh but something like less than 10 were being looked at. :moo:

Actually, I believe MSM originally reported he said "Way less than 10" but now that report seems to have disappeared into the Google maw. The latest reference seems to be http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/30/tim_bosma_murder_case_stolen_vehicles_recovered_from_dellen_millards_hangar_police_say.html in which "Hamilton Police" have stated that "A number of stolen vehicles have been recovered from Dellen Millard’s hangar".

How many is "a number". Pick one between one and 10, I guess.

 

[lanman]

Actually, I believe MSM originally reported he said "Way less than 10" but now that report seems to have disappeared into the Google maw. The latest reference seems to be http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/30/tim_bosma_murder_case_stolen_vehicles_recovered_from_dellen_millards_hangar_police_say.html in which "Hamilton Police" have stated that "A number of stolen vehicles have been recovered from Dellen Millard’s hangar".

How many is "a number". Pick one between one and 10, I guess.

“We’re still investigating, trying to find owners,” said Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh, who put the number of vehicles at “way less than 10.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-by-suspect-in-bosma-slaying/article12258800/

 

[Blomquist]

Actually, I believe MSM originally reported he said "Way less than 10" but now that report seems to have disappeared into the Google maw. The latest reference seems to be http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/30/tim_bosma_murder_case_stolen_vehicles_recovered_from_dellen_millards_hangar_police_say.html in which "Hamilton Police" have stated that "A number of stolen vehicles have been recovered from Dellen Millard’s hangar".

How many is "a number". Pick one between one and 10, I guess.

lol How on earth can we trust what is said really? I expect they figured that less than ten wasn't getting them any brownie points, so 'a number' at least leaves it to the imagination....and we can see where that takes us :floorlaugh: JMO MOO

 

[Blomquist]

“We’re still investigating, trying to find owners,” said Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh, who put the number of vehicles at “way less than 10.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-by-suspect-in-bosma-slaying/article12258800/

Way less than ten and still looking for the owners?? Maybe they should have a hotline for certain vehicles ....so that people can call in if one has been stolen. But I guess that would be too simple and would mean involving the public to do the detective work again ... what happened to the MOT VIN system? Well if VINs removed asking the public again for their help may be the only way to go.... shame the public aren't the ones being paid. JMO MOO

 

[SteveP]

<MODSNIP>

Truth be told, if what they have is a mass of parts from disassembled vehicles, they probably have not yet determined how many different cars they have.

I think we all would have a hard time determining a number of vehicles if we were shown a pile of parts with no VINs. JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Truth be told, if what they have is a mass of parts from disassembled vehicles, they probably have not yet determined how many different cars they have.

That is not what they have said though is it..they have said 'vehicles, way less than 10' as opposed to 'multiple parts of vehicles which appears to be way less than ten' JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Could you help me understand why it would be necessary to sell DM to customers? We have WM in the bg for the time being and maybe he might not be presentable to customers for various other reasons previously discussed - but he WAS the principal owner, was he not? Arguing to the ridiculous (and at this point, why not?) I have had occasion to go on cruises, from time to time; to take trans-ocean flights; to rent automobiles and to stay in major hotels entrusting the most valuable of all my possessions - my own life and that of my family - to the professionals involved in practically managing my requirements. I can here confirm that I've never once been deterred by the hairstyles or lifestyles of the owner(s) of Carnival Cruises; Lufthansa; Tilden or the Marriott, for instance, nor do I have the first clue who those persons or principal shareholders may be. Theoretically, it would matter if I had some reason to sue them, but otherwise, I just need to be confident that reviews are good, staff is top notch, facilities are terrific, location fits my needs and the price is excellent. Those are pretty much the same criteria that apply in most business transactions, imo and solely imo.

Why would the owner have to meet anyone? First of all, we're not talking about a large multi-national chain here. In aviation terms, Millardair would still be pretty small potatoes. For most people, 6 million to build a hangar sounds like a lot of money. But when you consider the value of the planes it would be working on, it's not a lot of money. In the Post article, we learn that DM was not only in charge of hangar construction - WM had handed the reigns over to DM to run the whole show as well. AS was the consultant hired to oversee the startup operations and secure maintenance contracts. For Corporations, Airlines and individuals to sign a maintenance contract for their 100 million dollar aircraft, they would have to feel confident that the operation is good and their airplanes secure and the work done properly.

So, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the Maintenance Manager of ABC Airlines to want to meet the guy in charge, and that would have been DM. The last thing any Airlines would want is to have their planes seized as the result of insolvency of the AMO or by Police seizing the hangar for 2 weeks while they investigate a crime or perhaps their planes used as a back drop for facebook pictures or soft *advertiser censored*. Companies like Westjet, Air Canada and Cargojet have their own maintenance facilities and run a very sterile environment, so they never have to worry about who they're dealing with. There's already the possibility that the executives from some of the contracts AS was trying to secure had already started to research DM- why wouldn't they? MOO

 

[Carli]

Carli...Millardair couldn't take on any work until it got it's AMO Certification for 737's(could have been more types of aircraft as well). That is a very time consuming task and they received it Nov 1/12. They were ready to roll with contracts as soon as clients could tour the facilities. They are specific to the type of aircraft that can be worked on and Transport Canada doesn't just hand those out to anyone...they're very difficult to obtain! http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part5-standards-573s-243.htm

Although I've reluctantly found myself hanging around them from time to time, not being a hangar owner myself (and not having the hair for it either) I haven't a clue what sorts of work could be conducted at the MillardAir K-W hangars, particularly the large one. However, I do know that hangars are perfect film studios because they're clear span buildings. The Pearson premises, for instance were used as a location for "The Incredible Hulk" and other films. In fact there are as many kinds of interim money earning ventures as you can imagine, imo. (Then, of course there's always that lucrative "chop shop" business, we're being led to believe, imo) I'm not sure there was any particularly justifiable reason for the buildings to be absolutely running on empty for months on end, imo.

Anyhow, what's done is done. DM appears to have felt far more confident assembling real estate deals and, who knows, maybe managing other financial assets of the family that aren't bricks and mortar. IMO. (One of his FB "interests" is accounting). Can't say I blame him. If I were 27, with little to no management training and had this mammoth task - AKA life work - thrown at me, I'd be pretty much terrified. But that's IMO. And my IMO is 100 percent without value, IMO. MOO. Just "flappin me' gums" as the old people say. MOO

Also, I recall he's charged with the first degree murder of Timothy Bosmo, not with making business decisions which are annoying or out of step with the public's perception of Millard family expectations. IMO. JMO. etc.

 

[newone]

Although I've reluctantly found myself hanging around them from time to time, not being a hangar owner myself (and not having the hair for it either) I haven't a clue what sorts of work could be conducted at the MillardAir K-W hangars, particularly the large one. However, I do know that hangars are perfect film studios because they're clear span buildings. The Pearson premises, for instance were used as a location for "The Incredible Hulk" and other films. In fact there are as many kinds of interim money earning ventures as you can imagine, imo. (Then, of course there's always that lucrative "chop shop" business, we're being led to believe, imo) I'm not sure there was any particularly justifiable reason for the buildings to be absolutely running on empty for months on end, imo.

Anyhow, what's done is done. DM appears to have felt far more confident assembling real estate deals and, who knows, maybe managing other financial assets of the family that aren't bricks and mortar. IMO. (One of his FB "interests" is accounting). Can't say I blame him. If I were 27, with little to no management training and had this mammoth task - AKA life work - thrown at me, I'd be pretty much terrified. But that's IMO. And my IMO is 100 percent without value, IMO. MOO. Just "flappin me' gums" as the old people say. MOO

BBM

totally agree with you on the terror side of it - fear of failure would be huge I would think for a 'wet behind the ears' business newbie who is only 27. I believe he was way beyond his comfort zone.

 

[Blomquist]

Why would the owner have to meet anyone? First of all, we're not talking about a large multi-national chain here. In aviation terms, Millardair would still be pretty small potatoes. For most people, 6 million to build a hangar sounds like a lot of money. But when you consider the value of the planes it would be working on, it's not a lot of money. In the Post article, we learn that DM was not only in charge of hangar construction - WM had handed the reigns over to DM to run the whole show as well. AS was the consultant hired to oversee the startup operations and secure maintenance contracts. For Corporations, Airlines and individuals to sign a maintenance contract for their 100 million dollar aircraft, they would have to feel confident that the operation is good and their airplanes secure and the work done properly.

So, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the Maintenance Manager of ABC Airlines to want to meet the guy in charge, and that would have been DM. The last thing any Airlines would want is to have their planes seized as the result of insolvency of the AMO or by Police seizing the hangar for 2 weeks while they investigate a crime or perhaps their planes used as a back drop for facebook pictures or soft *advertiser censored*. Companies like Westjet, Air Canada and Cargojet have their own maintenance facilities and run a very sterile environment, so they never have to worry about who they're dealing with. There's already the possibility that the executives from some of the contracts AS was trying to secure had already started to research DM- why wouldn't they? MOO

Usually in 'big business' there is a middle man who seems to be AS in this situation. Middle man shows prospective client the history of the company vying for business. Usually this is in paper form or in files etc. It is not always necessary or expected for client to meet head honcho...as head honcho has hired someone to do the work....hence not getting a dog and barking yourself statement I made earlier. Smaller companies often do meet the boss as their budget may not afford the middle man... JMO...

 

[MsSherlock]

Although I've reluctantly found myself hanging around them from time to time, not being a hangar owner myself (and not having the hair for it either) I haven't a clue what sorts of work could be conducted at the MillardAir K-W hangars, particularly the large one. However, I do know that hangars are perfect film studios because they're clear span buildings. The Pearson premises, for instance were used as a location for "The Incredible Hulk" and other films. In fact there are as many kinds of interim money earning ventures as you can imagine, imo. (Then, of course there's always that lucrative "chop shop" business, we're being led to believe, imo) I'm not sure there was any particularly justifiable reason for the buildings to be absolutely running on empty for months on end, imo.

Anyhow, what's done is done. DM appears to have felt far more confident assembling real estate deals and, who knows, maybe managing other financial assets of the family that aren't bricks and mortar. IMO. (One of his FB "interests" is accounting). Can't say I blame him. If I were 27, with little to no management training and had this mammoth task - AKA life work - thrown at me, I'd be pretty much terrified. But that's IMO. And my IMO is 100 percent without value, IMO. MOO. Just "flappin me' gums" as the old people say. MOO

Your last paragraph is part true. DM did lack the training and a perhaps work ethic, however the team that WM had put together should have eased him into it nicely. As far as being terrified? I don't know. DM had bought a few properties pre WM death- he had some business sense. You mentioned he liked accounting..IMO, he should have been savvy enough. Kids are graduating with their MBA's by the time they're DM's age...if not younger. I consider 19 or 20 young...certainly not 25 or 26 and DM was not foreign to aviation maintenance -he was no stranger to airports or planes. IMO, you do raise a valid point and since this thread is for WM, I'll say that perhaps DM may have been totally ticked off with WM for thinking he may want to have full time responsibilities...mmmm...wonder how he could ever stop something that was so far advanced?

As far as using the hangar for movies and photo ops, many hangars are hired out on a regular basis, but they're usually not licensed maintenance facilities. Usually they're hangars that simply house aircraft. Planes are easily pulled out and pushed back in as need be. Old hangars and old planes like the set up in Toronto make for great movies! MOO

 

[bessie]

That is not what they have said though is it..they have said 'vehicles, way less than 10' as opposed to 'multiple parts of vehicles which appears to be way less than ten' JMO

Link, please.

 

[Carli]

Link, please.

Not meaning to be a Buttinsky but I just stumbled upon the link. It's at the Globe.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/investigators-use-backhoe-in-search-at-farm-of-murder-suspect-dellen-millard/article12258800/#dashboard/follows/

The farm search came as Hamilton police revealed they discovered stolen vehicles at Mr. Millard&#8217;s hangar at the Region of Waterloo International Airport. One was a Harley-Davidson motorcycle belonging to a Toronto man which had been dismantled.

&#8220;We&#8217;re still investigating, trying to find owners,&#8221; said Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh, who put the number of vehicles at &#8220;way less than 10."

EDIT: Oops, sorry for the echo, Lanman. I see you found it too.

 

[MsSherlock]

Usually in 'big business' there is a middle man who seems to be AS in this situation. Middle man shows prospective client the history of the company vying for business. Usually this is in paper form or in files etc. It is not always necessary or expected for client to meet head honcho...as head honcho has hired someone to do the work....hence not getting a dog and barking yourself statement I made earlier. Smaller companies often do meet the boss as their budget may not afford the middle man... JMO...

IMO Blomquist, if you read back on the history of Millardair, you'll notice that CM was the go to guy for the company right until his death. Was it because he was a control freak...or was it because when people dealt with Millardair, they wanted to deal with a Millard? IMO, it was a bit of both. I agree with you that DM, as anyone, should be innocent until proven guilty, I also feel that Millardair shouldn't be portrayed as something more than it was. For some reason people and the media glamorize anything to do with aviation and the people who swing in those circles. "Aviation Dynasty"- nothing more than a sensational headline. MOO

 

[Blomquist]

IMO Blomquist, if you read back on the history of Millardair, you'll notice that CM was the go to guy for the company right until his death. Was it because he was a control freak...or was it because when people dealt with Millardair, they wanted to deal with a Millard? IMO, it was a bit of both. I agree with you that DM, as anyone, should be innocent until proven guilty, I also feel that Millardair shouldn't be portrayed as something more than it was. For some reason people and the media glamorize anything to do with aviation and the people who swing in those circles. "Aviation Dynasty"- nothing more than a sensational headline. MOO

CM was obviously 'old school' when business was done in a certain way. Much better than nowadays IMO. Many companies these days do send out the middle man and if we are to belive that WM was not emotionally well in recent years it is possible that he had an 'agent' working for him. DM apparently challenged this guy and this guy was not happy... IMO.
I agree with you about sensational headlines.... they are everywhere. Have you ever read a book called 'Killing Time'.... its futuristic..but well worth the read..

 

[broken_angel]

Truth be told, if what they have is a mass of parts from disassembled vehicles, they probably have not yet determined how many different cars they have.

I think we all would have a hard time determining a number of vehicles if we were shown a pile of parts with no VINs. JMO

If they have a bunch of parts, how do they know those parts belong to stolen vehicles? Just curious...

 

[musicaljoke]

If they have a bunch of parts, how do they know those parts belong to stolen vehicles? Just curious...

no store receipts,
no delivery receipts,
no supporting evidence to show when/where they were purchased,
VIN #s leading back to owners
VIN #s defaced for no apparent reason
parts that match descriptions of stolen vehicles
Onstar records
eye witnesses
suspect # 3
security cams