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UKGuy said:
Scandigirl,
Its IDI promoters Tricia wants rid off, those Ramsey sympathisers that post nonsense and dumb denials.

Way back when BlueCrab was posting there was a ban on naming children as suspects, but that was circumvented with the use of initials, so you see BR and DS mentioned a lot.

Back then we were working our way through all the theories, and it was open season, e.g. IDI, Pedophile Rings, Familial Abuse, RDI, etc.

BlueCrab's BDI and its variations are really an alternative to Lou Smit's IDI theory since they mostly explain away the same evidence, i.e. broken window, suitcase, size-12's, sexual assault, bike tracks, drink cans etc.

BlueCrab's BDI with an accomplice is a reasonably consistent theory, but falls down as there is no forensic evidence linking an accomplice to BR.

After checking out JDI, BDI, PDI, and IDI. I rejected IDI outright and eventually came down in favor of BDI since it was the most consistent theory out of them all, both JDI and PDI have holes in them, whereas BDI really just had the age factor as a negative, it also explained why the parents would collaborate to stage a crime scene.

BlueCrab was the only person to select BDI, he did a great job outlining all the main suspects and generating theories.

It appeared he was convinced the case was BDI, particularly after the GJ etc.

With no new facts or material to work on he likely became bored and got on with his life.

.
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Hi UkGuy, thanks for your reply, it's much appreciated! I know you're now firmly BDI, and as you used to have discussions with the former posters, I was curious to know your take on things. You made a very important point, that there is no forensic evidence of either an intruder or an accomplice, and forensic evidence is a much more specific thing than drink cans or bike tracks, which could have innocent explanations.

I only joined a few years ago, and I used to concentrate on JDI and/or PDI, similar to you, except without the knowledge or experience you and many other posters have. Now I do think BDI, although still open to new evidence, which is why I was exploring all the BDI posts.

I have to say, I was nervous about joining here, and still feel nervous posting, but everyone is generally very welcoming, supportive and respectful to each other (even when disagreeing) which is why I keep popping back every so often. And importantly there are so many fascinating opinions to read, and many posters are so knowledgeable!
 
Scandigirl said:
Hi UkGuy, thanks for your reply, it's much appreciated! I know you're now firmly BDI, and as you used to have discussions with the former posters, I was curious to know your take on things. You made a very important point, that there is no forensic evidence of either an intruder or an accomplice, and forensic evidence is a much more specific thing than drink cans or bike tracks, which could have innocent explanations.

I only joined a few years ago, and I used to concentrate on JDI and/or PDI, similar to you, except without the knowledge or experience you and many other posters have. Now I do think BDI, although still open to new evidence, which is why I was exploring all the BDI posts.

I have to say, I was nervous about joining here, and still feel nervous posting, but everyone is generally very welcoming, supportive and respectful to each other (even when disagreeing) which is why I keep popping back every so often. And importantly there are so many fascinating opinions to read, and many posters are so knowledgeable!
Click to expand...
Pop in more often!
The more the merrier! I enjoy your posts!
I am learning more every day in regards to this case. So many people are so well versed in this case. I love picking the brains of the long time sleuths! It's amazing to be able to discuss this and figure things out together. I surely hope more and more evidence is released soon.
The 911 calls from the party are extremely curious to me.
Is there a list somewhere of all those in attendance? Surely not all of them still stand behind the Ramsey's.
I think they need to start further back in time in regards to JonBenet's change in behavior. Start back there and work towards the crime. Somewhere in there I'm sure there are plenty of witnesses who are willing to talk now. One thing about a crime that's 20 yrs old, people change their minds, friendships end, and people are more willing to talk.
IMHO if one or two of their previous friends speak out, I think more will step forward and tell what they know.
It upset me watching Laura Richards go door to door and call people constantly and not one single person was willing to talk. That's pretty disgusting if you ask me. I'm glad that JonBenet's photographer spoke out. I admire her for that. More should follow in her footsteps and seek answers to JonBenet's death. She was just a little girl. Bless her heart. I'm sure many adults know more to the story and are afraid to speak out. But JR can't sue EVERYONE. If they tell the truth, JR can't hold that against them and he has to be running out of money for his law suits.
JMOO
 
Heymom said:
I guess people can find a way to account for what we see as anomalies in the case - things that aren't explained or that we don't have any good explanation for. But you have to be able to think clearly and realize that if the Ramseys could possibly have thrown someone else under the bus for JonBenet's death, they would have done it in an Atlanta minute. They tossed several close friends under the bus even before JonBenet's body was brought up from the basement. And they continued to toss people in front of the bus as they needed to, in order to keep the distractions flowing. No consciences about this. If anyone else had been in that house, we'd have heard about him immediately - why would they hide/protect a non-family member? No, they'd try like hell to pin the whole thing on him.

I tell you what - I'd sell some dear possessions to get access to those case files.
Click to expand...

I'd donate a kidney.

And you're right. They wouldn't protect anyone else but Burke. Not even JAR. This I'm sure of.
 
PositiveLight said:
Pop in more often!
The more the merrier! I enjoy your posts!
I am learning more every day in regards to this case. So many people are so well versed in this case. I love picking the brains of the long time sleuths! It's amazing to be able to discuss this and figure things out together. I surely hope more and more evidence is released soon.
The 911 calls from the party are extremely curious to me.
Is there a list somewhere of all those in attendance? Surely not all of them still stand behind the Ramsey's.
I think they need to start further back in time in regards to JonBenet's change in behavior. Start back there and work towards the crime. Somewhere in there I'm sure there are plenty of witnesses who are willing to talk now. One thing about a crime that's 20 yrs old, people change their minds, friendships end, and people are more willing to talk.
IMHO if one or two of their previous friends speak out, I think more will step forward and tell what they know.
It upset me watching Laura Richards go door to door and call people constantly and not one single person was willing to talk. That's pretty disgusting if you ask me. I'm glad that JonBenet's photographer spoke out. I admire her for that. More should follow in her footsteps and seek answers to JonBenet's death. She was just a little girl. Bless her heart. I'm sure many adults know more to the story and are afraid to speak out. But JR can't sue EVERYONE. If they tell the truth, JR can't hold that against them and he has to be running out of money for his law suits.
JMOO
Click to expand...
Hi Positive Light, thanks. I enjoy your posts too, and you're always so positive and encouraging to everyone! I agree about delving further back into earlier signs and changes in JB, although sadly I think that opportunity has already long been missed. I do wonder how far back the abuse went, as I do think she had been abused previously before that night. (There is a photo of her standing in a doorway, wearing a red and white dress some time before she was killed, and two red marks are visible on her legs. They look suspiciously like the marks thought to have been caused by the train track pins, to me. Very sad.) This makes me question Kolar's theory, that BR prodding her with the train tracks only occurred that night, "merely" to try to get a response? But, I may be wrong.

I also wonder what the teachers and nurse at her school knew, or suspected. I find it incredible that nothing has leaked out about that at all. As far as the 911 call on the 23rd, I agree it seems suspicious, and it reminds me of Joe Kenda, Homicide Hunter, who says he doesn't believe in coincidences... The trouble is, I swing back and forth between agreeing with him, and then telling myself off for chasing after red herrings!

Hopefully someone else will have more info or ideas on these topics, and be able to help you out with an answer.
 
PositiveLight said:
You and me both!
I'd love to see the evidence!
One of the reasons I was curious about DS is because SS is such a fierce protector of the Ramsey's and really didn't get so close until after JonBenet's death from what I understand. I was theorizing that may be why she seems to have a dog in the fight. The Stines know where the skeletons are as someone else said. I think FW and PW do too. The Stine's however have never been thrown under the bus like the White's were. Why?
Unless both sets of parents have equally disturbing dirt on one another. They may stand together in that situation to protect the boys.
Who I want to really hear from is the White's. I think they have a huge story to tell and would be pivotal in solving the case.
Click to expand...

I've known people like the Stines seem to be. They are suck-ups. They weren't as close to the Ramseys b/c probably the Whites held first place, but when FW & PW drew back right after JonBenet's murder, the Stines moved right in, offering a place for the Ramseys to live while they were trying to figure out where they wanted to go. Social climbers who want to be in the circle of people like John Ramsey, in case some scraps fall from that table.

Yes, I agree that FW and probably PW too, have a lot of information. The GJ must have heard their statements. I would love to read what they said.
 
Scandigirl said:
Hi Positive Light, thanks. I enjoy your posts too, and you're always so positive and encouraging to everyone! I agree about delving further back into earlier signs and changes in JB, although sadly I think that opportunity has already long been missed. I do wonder how far back the abuse went, as I do think she had been abused previously before that night. (There is a photo of her standing in a doorway, wearing a red and white dress some time before she was killed, and two red marks are visible on her legs. They look suspiciously like the marks thought to have been caused by the train track pins, to me. Very sad.) This makes me question Kolar's theory, that BR prodding her with the train tracks only occurred that night, "merely" to try to get a response? But, I may be wrong.

I also wonder what the teachers and nurse at her school knew, or suspected. I find it incredible that nothing has leaked out about that at all. As far as the 911 call on the 23rd, I agree it seems suspicious, and it reminds me of Joe Kenda, Homicide Hunter, who says he doesn't believe in coincidences... The trouble is, I swing back and forth between agreeing with him, and then telling myself off for chasing after red herrings!

Hopefully someone else will have more info or ideas on these topics, and be able to help you out with an answer.
Click to expand...

Kenda is correct though. If something related to a murder looks like a coincidence, it probably isn't.

Speaking of bruises what about these pictures?

y177505613069373.jpg


attachment.php


I get tired of IDIs drolly lecturing me about how little girls get bruises and how Nedra said it was a hamster cage. Please. None of us lived there so we don't know what she was being subjected to. What we DO know is that BR had a host of behavior troubles.

By the way here's a picture of her legs in case someone asks

attachment.php
 
Heymom said:
I've known people like the Stines seem to be. They are suck-ups. They weren't as close to the Ramseys b/c probably the Whites held first place, but when FW & PW drew back right after JonBenet's murder, the Stines moved right in, offering a place for the Ramseys to live while they were trying to figure out where they wanted to go. Social climbers who want to be in the circle of people like John Ramsey, in case some scraps fall from that table.

Yes, I agree that FW and probably PW too, have a lot of information. The GJ must have heard their statements. I would love to read what they said.
Click to expand...
YES!
They do seem to be such brown nosers! If there was any jealousy it was the Stine's being jealous of the White's. IIRC PR stated PW was jealous of her or something. :notgood:
I feel the White's were more grounded in reality.
 
Ambitioned said:
Kenda is correct though. If something related to a murder looks like a coincidence, it probably isn't.

Speaking of bruises what about these pictures?

y177505613069373.jpg


attachment.php


I get tired of IDIs drolly lecturing me about how little girls get bruises and how Nedra said it was a hamster cage. Please. None of us lived there so we don't know what she was being subjected to. What we DO know is that BR had a host of behavior troubles.

By the way here's a picture of her legs in case someone asks

attachment.php
Click to expand...
Those look like pinch or bite marks to me.
I also think the bottom picture shows that BR often poked JonBenet with the tracks. Some brothers do stuff like that to get a rise out of the other sibling.
I know my brother did!
 
PositiveLight said:
Oh yes!
Thank you! Poor Evan! took the blame for everything.
Click to expand...
EDI, right? :floorlaugh:


I just remembered something someone on the threads mentioned but not sure if it was ever confirmed. Did DS spend the night with BR christmas night and rode home on his bike in the early hours? Not sure if that was a possibility, truth or theory. BUT after thinking about what could have occurred on the 23rd.... it could have possibly been repeated that night which led to her death? Curious! Does anyone have any info on that? Wasn't bike marks in the frost or something that morning?
Click to expand...
The theory about another juvie being involved is out there, but has never been confirmed or even acknowledged by anyone inside the investigation. I don't think it happened, but it would explain the otherwise inexplicable "hip-attachment" the Stines and Ramseys developed after JonBenet's death. The theory (as best as I've heard it explained) is that Doug was picked up when the Ramseys stopped at the Stine house. The intent at that point was that he would travel with Burke to Charlevoix for company (a practice the Ramseys even did for JonBenet's funeral -- all flown by private jet to Atlanta). Picking up Doug could have been planned ahead of time or simply a last minute decision made while Burke and Doug were talking Christmas night. This would be one more reason for the Ramseys to decide to skip their next planned stop and go straight home after picking up Doug.

As for what happened afterwards (according to speculation), the theories either have Doug's bike picked up with him and put in the trunk, or that he borrowed one of the bikes belonging to the Ramseys after the "fit hit the shan." (Hello, unaccounted for or conflicting number of bicycles.)

What I have always wondered about here though is the bike tracks that are always said to be leading "away" from the house. Was there some kind of forensic testing that was supposed to have been done to determine that these alleged tracks went "away from" the house instead of "coming to" the house, or could they have even been simply tracks from earlier the previous day when the kids were riding their bikes around the house.

How far did the Stines live from the Ramsey's?
Click to expand...
Not too far to be done easily on a bicycle:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=40.00426731572232,-105.27911690209964&z=15
 
otg said:
EDI, right? :floorlaugh:


The theory about another juvie being involved is out there, but has never been confirmed or even acknowledged by anyone inside the investigation. I don't think it happened, but it would explain the otherwise inexplicable "hip-attachment" the Stines and Ramseys developed after JonBenet's death. The theory (as best as I've heard it explained) is that Doug was picked up when the Ramseys stopped at the Stine house. The intent at that point was that he would travel with Burke to Charlevoix for company (a practice the Ramseys even did for JonBenet's funeral -- all flown by private jet to Atlanta). Picking up Doug could have been planned ahead of time or simply a last minute decision made while Burke and Doug were talking Christmas night. This would be one more reason for the Ramseys to decide to skip their next planned stop and go straight home after picking up Doug.

As for what happened afterwards (according to speculation), the theories either have Doug's bike picked up with him and put in the trunk, or that he borrowed one of the bikes belonging to the Ramseys after the "fit hit the shan." (Hello, unaccounted for or conflicting number of bicycles.)

What I have always wondered about here though is the bike tracks that are always said to be leading "away" from the house. Was there some kind of forensic testing that was supposed to have been done to determine that these alleged tracks went "away from" the house instead of "coming to" the house, or could they have even been simply tracks from earlier the previous day when the kids were riding their bikes around the house.

Not too far to be done easily on a bicycle:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=40.00426731572232,-105.27911690209964&z=15
Click to expand...

I think the CSI has a special bike tire tread directional determination software that they can use to determine not only the direction the bike was traveling in, but the velocity and the weight and height of the rider as well. The software company tried for hair color of the rider but that feature is still a bit buggy.

;)
 
Also, I would not call the Stines' closer relationship with the Ramseys "inexplicable." They were in the Ramseys' circle of friends, and may have wanted to be the top slot, but the Whites had gotten there first. Doug and Burke were playmates in any case. When the Whites drew back and questioned JR & PR's responses after the murder (let alone that very morning/afternoon), the Stines moved into the Whites' slot with a vengeance. Some people want to be close to the sort of people JR & PR were before the murder. Social climbers, that's one expression for it. I don't know if anything continued after Patsy died. Maybe Doug and Burke are still friendly.
 
That would explain a few things if Doug stayed overnight. Like--TWO young boys up to no good. Burke had been in the house with JBR all the time over the years but TWO of them that night might have made a difference. And TWO of them starting the staging would be more likely than one of them knowing how to do it. Then, from right after that, the joining at the hip of Stines and Ramseys. But I don't know if there's any evidence of Doug's DNA or fingerprints. And it would tie in with the mysterious 911 phone call on the 23rd because those two boys may have been trying something and Susan knew about it. She was the one who made the police go away. It's a good possibility but again, no proof is available.
 
Yeah, an alien beaming into the house that night and killing JonBenet would have explained a few things too, but there's no evidence that happened. Do people really think that John and Patsy Ramsey would protect SOMEONE ELSE'S child when that would make a perfect scapegoat???
 
Heymom said:
Also, I would not call the Stines' closer relationship with the Ramseys "inexplicable." They were in the Ramseys' circle of friends, and may have wanted to be the top slot, but the Whites had gotten there first.
Click to expand...
Oh, no. That's impossible. John said in one of his interviews that they weren't close (even though they traveled together to NYC prior to that Christmas... I mean, who travels together staying at the same hotel with someone they're only kind of acquainted with?)

Doug and Burke were playmates in any case. When the Whites drew back and questioned JR & PR's responses after the murder (let alone that very morning/afternoon), the Stines moved into the Whites' slot with a vengeance. Some people want to be close to the sort of people JR & PR were before the murder. Social climbers, that's one expression for it. I don't know if anything continued after Patsy died. Maybe Doug and Burke are still friendly.
Click to expand...
They were still "friends" on Facebook a couple of years ago, and I don't know of anything that might have happened since then to have changed that.
 
Heymom said:
I think the CSI has a special bike tire tread directional determination software that they can use to determine not only the direction the bike was traveling in, but the velocity and the weight and height of the rider as well. The software company tried for hair color of the rider but that feature is still a bit buggy.

;)
Click to expand...
:floorlaugh: Yeah, I suppose the hair color of the driver might be thrown off in the software by the color of the bike. Right?:lol:
 
otg said:
EDI, right? :floorlaugh:


The theory about another juvie being involved is out there, but has never been confirmed or even acknowledged by anyone inside the investigation. I don't think it happened, but it would explain the otherwise inexplicable "hip-attachment" the Stines and Ramseys developed after JonBenet's death. The theory (as best as I've heard it explained) is that Doug was picked up when the Ramseys stopped at the Stine house. The intent at that point was that he would travel with Burke to Charlevoix for company (a practice the Ramseys even did for JonBenet's funeral -- all flown by private jet to Atlanta). Picking up Doug could have been planned ahead of time or simply a last minute decision made while Burke and Doug were talking Christmas night. This would be one more reason for the Ramseys to decide to skip their next planned stop and go straight home after picking up Doug.

As for what happened afterwards (according to speculation), the theories either have Doug's bike picked up with him and put in the trunk, or that he borrowed one of the bikes belonging to the Ramseys after the "fit hit the shan." (Hello, unaccounted for or conflicting number of bicycles.)

What I have always wondered about here though is the bike tracks that are always said to be leading "away" from the house. Was there some kind of forensic testing that was supposed to have been done to determine that these alleged tracks went "away from" the house instead of "coming to" the house, or could they have even been simply tracks from earlier the previous day when the kids were riding their bikes around the house.

Not too far to be done easily on a bicycle:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=40.00426731572232,-105.27911690209964&z=15
Click to expand...
Again Thank you!!
I always wondered about the bicycle tracks too! How could they tell which direction they were going?? Weird! And yes it goes back to the question of how many bikes were at the house again lol! :waitasec:
 
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