The December 23 party

[HarmonyE.]

Hello all,

So it has been 20 years. I am just thinking of all these people and the children who were there and who were around during this year. 20 years later...and no one has come forward to tell their story...their perspective of events. Why would that be? The most likely scenario is that something happened that involved the children. If I was witness to something that many years ago and I had some info...I would have come forward by now. Why are they all so quiet? Unless they are protecting juveniles.

--Cindy

I think any people - old and young - who might have had something to say have long been silenced by the fear of civil litigation if they breathe a word that implies they think any of the Ramseys might be guilty of the crime.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I assume you are talking about the guests on Dec. 23rd. Maybe there is nothing more to tell. It was a party with gingerbread houses, children, parents, neighbors, gifts, Santa, food and drink. We know that there was a 911 call and that FW thinks he mistakenly dialed when trying to locate medicine for his mother. We know that JBR talked of the secret Santa who was to visit after Christmas and that she wasn't feeling 'pretty' and that her mother had made her take off her make-up. You can bet that everyone in attendance was contacted by BPD. Whether they talked or not is another story.

Couple of things...I can't be the only person who has accidentally dialed 911. It's such a stupid combination of numbers. 999 as used in the UK would make far more sense. Most people who work in offices have to dial 9 to get an outside line and then it's 1 for long distance. So there's the 9 and the 1. I have a company-supplied landline speaker phone at home and have twice over the years accidentally hit 1 for a second time when distracted while dialing. There's a woman in my office who just did it a week ago. For the second time in a month. Security has to bring the cops up to investigate. Being mortified the first time didn't stop her from doing it again!

As for the Santa coming after Christmas, I've always assumed JonBenet was talking the fact that Santa was dropping off presents in Michigan for her to open on 12/26. She was young enough to believe in Santa and telling her about the second visit might have been a way for her parents to make sure she wasn't disappointed if she didn't get everything on her list on 12/25. Of course, the Ramseys would never admit this later because they wanted the Santa red herring kept alive, but it seems like a reasonable possibility to me.

As for not feeling pretty, there are many reasons why she may have felt this way. One simple example could be a nasty, jealous little kid telling her she was only pretty in make up in fancy dresses. Or maybe she didn't like the outfit Patsy made her wear. Or taking off her makeup. It's really hard to read anything into that scene without some context.

 

[UKGuy]

I think any people - old and young - who might have had something to say have long been silenced by the fear of civil litigation if they breathe a word that implies they think any of the Ramseys might be guilty of the crime.

HarmonyE,
That's about it. The R's litigation threat is enough to close down public discourse.

Once JR leaves us it will be open season on the JonBenet case and all those similar in age to BR and DS etc will be able to say what they want.

.

 

[HarmonyE.]

HarmonyE,
That's about it. The R's litigation threat is enough to close down public discourse.

Once JR leaves us it will be open season on the JonBenet case and all those similar in age to BR and DS etc will be able to say what they want.

.

I'd like to think that would be the case, but Burke's got himself a case of the suin' bug now.

 

[Ambitioned]

If you are correct, and I think you are, this would be one of those mysteries that could be easily cleared up by FW. If he says he accidentally made the call we can stop talking about it. If he says otherwise it is a massive red flag for RDI. Actually if FW spoke I think many pieces of this puzzle could be put to bed.

He probably did clear it up for the GJ

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

If you are correct, and I think you are, this would be one of those mysteries that could be easily cleared up by FW. If he says he accidentally made the call we can stop talking about it. If he says otherwise it is a massive red flag for RDI. Actually if FW spoke I think many pieces of this puzzle could be put to bed.

That's a good point. And thinking about it, FW talked to the police multiple times so presumably they would have asked him about it. The news about that call on the 23rd broke publicly just days after the murder and he was at the party - surely it would have come up during an interview. I would guess the police know whether he made the call or not. My gut feeling is that they know he didn't (but may not know who did) because both Thomas or Kolar leave the reason for the call and who placed it a mystery. But there could be other reasons for not releasing that info. Yeah, I wish FW would speak out or release the notes he took that day. There's really no need to save his testimony for court at this point, a jury will never see the case.


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[UKGuy]

Couple of things...I can't be the only person who has accidentally dialed 911. It's such a stupid combination of numbers. 999 as used in the UK would make far more sense. Most people who work in offices have to dial 9 to get an outside line and then it's 1 for long distance. So there's the 9 and the 1. I have a company-supplied landline speaker phone at home and have twice over the years accidentally hit 1 for a second time when distracted while dialing. There's a woman in my office who just did it a week ago. For the second time in a month. Security has to bring the cops up to investigate. Being mortified the first time didn't stop her from doing it again!

As for the Santa coming after Christmas, I've always assumed JonBenet was talking the fact that Santa was dropping off presents in Michigan for her to open on 12/26. She was young enough to believe in Santa and telling her about the second visit might have been a way for her parents to make sure she wasn't disappointed if she didn't get everything on her list on 12/25. Of course, the Ramseys would never admit this later because they wanted the Santa red herring kept alive, but it seems like a reasonable possibility to me.

As for not feeling pretty, there are many reasons why she may have felt this way. One simple example could be a nasty, jealous little kid telling her she was only pretty in make up in fancy dresses. Or maybe she didn't like the outfit Patsy made her wear. Or taking off her makeup. It's really hard to read anything into that scene without some context.

HarmonyE,
Something did happen because Susan Stine took charge. Its easy enough to speculate, but without anything to back it up it it does not advance us very far.

.

 

[Ambitioned]

I'd like to think that would be the case, but Burke's got himself a case of the suin' bug now.

Speaking of which. According to Law Newz, John Ziegler, a defamation lawsuit is to be filed today for 750 million dollars against CBS and the production company. Well, the day is coming to an end and nothing. :lol:

 

[UKGuy]

Speaking of which. According to Law Newz, John Ziegler, a defamation lawsuit is to be filed today for 750 million dollars against CBS and the production company. Well, the day is coming to an end and nothing. :lol:

Ambitioned,
I reckon Ziegler is talking up LW's litigation case. Its likely to be a public war of words with CBS.

CBS will have insurance on this documentary and if the insurance company reckons there is no case to answer, they could call LW's bluff.

That's what will be playing out shortly. Mentioning the Gawker case is simply talk since no videos of BR have been released.

.

.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Speaking of which. According to Law Newz, John Ziegler, a defamation lawsuit is to be filed today for 750 million dollars against CBS and the production company. Well, the day is coming to an end and nothing. :lol:

He's probably waiting until 11:59pm tonight to file that lawsuit he originally claimed he would file over a month ago. I'm just sure of it!


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[BOBON]

2 things that I keep thinking about regarding the party:

- JBR saying that she feels ugly. I wonder if it has to do with her not wanting to wear a matching outfit to PR, and PR thus telling her "Well, if you want to look ugly, your choice"... maybe JBR regretted her choice later that evening and proclaimed that she felt ugly (a thought her mother instilled in her over and over again) wanting to change outfits?! Or maybe Burke teasing her

- The promised Santa Visit People are still connecting an adult with this statement but I speculate that perhaps BR told JBR about this secret visit, for example to make her want to go to the basement where a surprise is waiting later that night?!

 

[flourish]

2 things that I keep thinking about regarding the party:

- JBR saying that she feels ugly. I wonder if it has to do with her not wanting to wear a matching outfit to PR, and PR thus telling her "Well, if you want to look ugly, your choice"... maybe JBR regretted her choice later that evening and proclaimed that she felt ugly (a thought her mother instilled in her over and over again) wanting to change outfits?! Or maybe Burke teasing her

- The promised Santa Visit People are still connecting an adult with this statement but I speculate that perhaps BR told JBR about this secret visit, for example to make her want to go to the basement where a surprise is waiting later that night?!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but didn't she say she "didn't feel pretty" as opposed to "feeling ugly?"

The difference, as I see it, is the pretty comment could be a response to, "oh, jb, don't you look pretty?!" where the ugly statement would likely be a response to a different kind of remark or catalyst, like what you mention.

 

[SerenitySprings]

The thing that bothers me the most about the 911 call is Susan Stine's reaction to it. No one has come forward to claim that they made the call or know who did. However, Susan's response to the officer at the door makes me believe that she expected him to be there. Pretend you are at a party when you hear the doorbell ring. You go to answer it and there's an officer on the front steps. You asked him what's going on and he tells you that someone dialed 911 and then hung up. Now, if you had no idea that a 911 call had been made, wouldn't you go and get the party hosts or something? You would probably be confused and asking the cop a lot of questions. It seems to me that she knew the cops would be showing up. But if she does not know who made that 911 call, how would she know to expect the cops?

I was actually at a holiday party at a friend's house one year and the cops did show up. The doorbell rang and I answered it because I was closest to the door and the cops asked for the owner of the house because they had revived a noise complaint. I immediately got my friend and she dealt with the police. I can't imagine me allowing the cops to leave without making sure my friend spoke to them.


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[DrollForeignFaction]

And didn't Stine actually dismiss the police via intercom, she didn't even open the door? So weird. Does anyone have the source for that info if it's true? I didn't find anything in ST or JK's books or the Bonita Papers about it.


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[BoldBear]

I'm just trying to get some conflicting references straightened out in my head. Would someone please comment if you know anything. It would help.

I clipped this from a previous posting. It is quoting an article from the Rocky Mountain News. It had a link to the article, but the paper is not defunct. I bolded the sections I have questions about.

[Snip]

An emergency call came in to Boulder police dispatcher Therese Hilleary's switchboard two nights before Christmas. It was 6:47 p.m.

The 911 caller hung up without a word, but Hilleary traced it to 755 15th Ave., a 15-room Tudor brick mansion where John and Patricia "Patsy'' Ramsey were throwing their annual Christmas party.
A return call reached the Ramseys' answering machine, so Hilleary dispatched an officer to the quiet neighborhood braced by two of the city's signature landmarks, Chautauqua Park and the University of Colorado campus.

The officer, identified in department records only as "B.O. 266,'' was on to other duties by 7:09 p.m. after being told someone had misdialed while trying to call long distance.

Betty Barnhill and her husband, Joe, were two of about 100 guests at their neighbors' Christmas party that Monday night. Patsy Ramsey had used the Barnhills' oven to bake a ham while she roasted a turkey in hers.

"There were lots of their friends from the Episcopal Church there,'' Betty Barnhill says. "Patsy loved having people over, enjoying her house.''

Santa Claus, played by former University of Colorado journalism professor Bill McReynolds, passed out presents to the children.

Barnhill watched the Ramseys' two children enjoy the revelry. "I can remember Burke that night,'' she says of the Ramseys' 9-year-old son. "He was just laughing, enjoying himself.'' And Barnhill recalls the bright smiles of another jewel that lighted the house -- 6-year-old JonBenet Patricia Ramsey.
"She had a lovely black velvet dress on, and her blonde hair was pulled up high on top of her head,'' Barnhill says.

She pauses, then says, "What happened is real baffling to me.''

[Snip]

Betty had Alzheimer disease so she wasn't a very good source—shame on the Rocky Mountain News.

1) The night of the 23rd there were 31 guests at the Christmas party not about 100.
2) Patsy Ramsey had used the Barnhills' oven to bake a ham while she roasted a turkey in hers. – It's noted elsewhere that Patsy catered this party so Betty Barnhill could be mistaken. Patsy had a double oven in her kitchen. I don't believe Patsy baked a ham at the Barnhills for this event. It could have been some other. Does anyone had an alternate reference that either dismisses the statement or collaborates it?
3) There were lots of their friends from the Episcopal Church there.... The Ramseys had a party on the 13th for the church group. There were about 60 members in her house at that time. Is Betty getting the party on the 13th confused with the party on the 23rd?

If you can recall any of these issues, please comment or point me in the right direction.

Thanks

 

[BoldBear]

And didn't Stine actually dismiss the police via intercom, she didn't even open the door? So weird. Does anyone have the source for that info if it's true? I didn't find anything in ST or JK's books or the Bonita Papers about it.

I've been looking for the intercom source too. I can only trace it back to something someone said in a discussion thread.

It is noted in "Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case", but it's not sourced.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a good source that says that Susan Stine used the intercom to talk to the police officer. This is being moved over into the myth category. Susan Stine talked with the police as referenced in DOI, but there's no mention of doing with the intercom.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I've been looking for the intercom source too. I can only trace it back to something someone said in a discussion thread.

It is noted in "Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case", but it's not sourced.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a good source that says that Susan Stine used the intercom to talk to the police officer. This is being moved over into the myth category. Susan Stine talked with the police as referenced in DOI, but there's no mention of doing with the intercom.

So, I decided to google this Susan Stine/intercom business since you brought it up again and it took some digging but I found the source of that rumor.

Back on May 5th, 2000 Steve Thomas answered questions in a web chat for About.com.

crimeADM: Two people asked about a 911 call on the 23rd
SteveThomas: private Christmas party at their house -- dispatched as an "unknown 911", a common call. Uniformed officer never went in, was told through intercom everything was ok, and he left. Exact details unknown, but investigators believed it may have been a party guest misdialing on a cordless phone

This quote appears in part two of the chat.
Part 1: https://web.archive.org/web/2000121...newsissues/crime/library/weekly/aa051800a.htm
Part 2: https://web.archive.org/web/2000081...newsissues/crime/library/weekly/aa051800b.htm



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[BoldBear]

So, I decided to google this Susan Stine/intercom business since you brought it up again and it took some digging but I found the source of that rumor.

Back on May 5th, 2000 Steve Thomas answered questions in a web chat for About.com.

This quote appears in part two of the chat.
Part 1: https://web.archive.org/web/2000121...newsissues/crime/library/weekly/aa051800a.htm
Part 2: https://web.archive.org/web/2000081...newsissues/crime/library/weekly/aa051800b.htm

Thanks for the links on this. It's interesting. Steve Thomas came across as more reasoned in his book when he put himself up against Alex Hunter and Lou Smit. Without an antagonist, he appears to be biased (that's neither good or bad). He's always been that way. I just didn't notice it in his book.

 

[otg]

And didn't Stine actually dismiss the police via intercom, she didn't even open the door? So weird. Does anyone have the source for that info if it's true? I didn't find anything in ST or JK's books or the Bonita Papers about it.

I think the origin of this came from two sources. Steve Thomas wrote about the officer being turned away in response to the 911 call, but he didn’t say who answered the door. He was asked about it in at least one of the online chats he did, and he confirmed it. But something else he said (in the chat you referenced above, DFF) might be the reason the responding officer didn’t feel it necessary to actually insist on going in and speaking with the person who allegedly “misdialed” the number. While I disagree with the policy (if that was the case), since it was a hang-up, apparently they classified it as “an ‘unknown 911’, a common call,” rather than an “emergency 911 call.” Bad reasoning (IMO), but perhaps this was the reason the officer didn’t feel during the holidays with a house full of guests it was necessary to take it seriously as an emergency.

On December 23, Patsy held a glittering Christmas party. About two dozen adults and children decorated gingerbread houses on the big dining room table. JonBenét looked happy and beautiful in a black velvet dress. The only odd moment was when a policeman arrived to say he was answering an emergency 911 call. He did not enter the festive house but was told through a speaker that all was well, and he went away. Santa Bill McReynolds entertained the guests, and housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh helped serve.
​

Who that person was who spoke with the responding officer was told by the Ramseys in their book, DOI, even though they don’t mention that it was done through a speaker or through an intercom (this is also where they place the blame on Fleet White):

During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen, Colorado. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people in the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery.
​

Personally, I don’t have any doubts about surmising it was Susan Stine (considering some of her other exploits), or that she didn’t bother even opening the door. I do still have doubts about the reason for the call being a misdialed number resulting from Fleet White trying to get medicine to a hospital for his mother. Were his sources for getting medication really better than the sources at a hospital? That just really makes no sense to me, and it has never been confirmed by the Whites or anyone else.

 

[UKGuy]

otg,
I've never seen Fleet White confirm that stuff about him trying to get medicine to a hospital for his mother?

Why would he wait till he was in someone else's house to arrange this?

if Susan Stine answers the door, then Patsy can deny whatever at a later date?

.