The Fall Of Kabul To The Taliban

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SuziQ said:
I don't see anywhere in the deal where the military was supposed to be yanked out in the middle of the night and a air base abandoned before citizens were removed. Allowing tens of thousands of people to become hostages. I don't see where the agreement allowed for the Taliban to not have to meet conditions set before us withdrawing. You have more trust in the Taliban than I do. We will be lucky to get out unscathed. While US troops have not been attacked, our US citizens have been.
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Attacking civilians, including women and children, is even more egregious than attacking troops! It’s certainly not a reason to imply that the is keeping their word on anything. MOO

:) (I don’t mean that you implied that SusieQ! )
 
Reasonable & Just said:
Ah, the Daily Mail... these are the terms of surrender, the deal that the Trump administration signed in 2020 (Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war). The Taliban has not attacked US forces (yet, but I doubt they will), and so we can't force our way through the country sweeping up people, unless we want to surge our forces, then stick around for a decade or so to stabilize. This is why people were encouraged to start leaving in April (US sending 3K troops for partial Afghan embassy evacuation). We now need to work with them and use special operations to whatever extent that we can.
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Trump absolutely did not “surrender”, by any stretch of the imagination. MOO
 
Arabist: Taliban call it Sharia, but it's about power.

According to al-Zwaini, the Taliban are already doing many things that go against the rules of Sharia. "They use violence, enforce (dress) regulations, are vigilant and recruit brides without permission. This is no longer about legal rules but about power and violence with political pressure."

(It's a Dutch translated Google article about the Sharia law)

Arabist: Taliban noemen het sharia, maar het gaat over macht

Tbh, I do feel, we failed them,as NATO, all my prayers are up for all those left in despair.
Heartbreaking

I only have faith in NGO's, tbh.
My support goes out to them, am not sure if it's allowed, but worth a mention:
"While many people and organisations have fled Afghanistan, our teams are staying put, providing essential medical care to people across the country. Given the current instability, displacement of people and acute health needs, we are concerned about access to healthcare for everyone.
Medical needs as urgent as ever in Afghanistan after Taliban takeover | MSF
^kudos to them^
 
It has dawned on me, that this Fall of Kabul, and Afghanistan in general is eerily similar to our Viet Nam experience. IMO, the press has reported ample stories and devastating facts in the field, while a drastically different sugar-coated version comes from the brass in government.
I have seen from the multiple videos and printed press just how dangerous, atrocious and terrifying this all has to be to ALL people in that country. I also have a knowledge of the past and present behaviors of the taliban. Trust would never be a quality I would associate with them, and yet it appears that is exactly what the U.S. government is doing.

And, the press is leaving the scene day by day.....
 
Aditya Raj Kaul
@AdityaRajKaul
·
18m

After Taliban announced it was sending hundreds of fighters to attack Panjshir led by Qari Fasihud Din HafizuAllah, reports trickling in of initial setback to Taliban with hundreds of its fighters trapped, and over 300 Taliban terrorists killed. Supply route of Taliban blocked.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul
 
Taliban warn of 'consequences' if US and Britain try to extend August 31 withdrawal deadline | Daily Mail Online


The Taliban has threatened a 'reaction' if the US or UK extend the deadline for the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan.

Joe Biden has set a deadline of August 31 for all Americans to have left the country, but UK military sources said another fortnight was needed to evacuate everyone.

Taliban spokesman Dr Suhail Shaheen has warned of 'consequences' if Western forces stay beyond the end of the month.

He told Sky News: 'It's a red line. President Biden announced that on 31 August they would withdraw all their military forces. So if they extend it that means they are extending occupation while there is no need for that.

'If the US or UK were to seek additional time to continue evacuations - the answer is no. Or there would be consequences.

'It will create mistrust between us. If they are intent on continuing the occupation it will provoke a reaction.'

Dr Shaheen also claimed people are not fleeing Afghanistan because they are scared, saying it was purely 'economic migration', despite the desperate scenes at Kabul airport.

He added it was 'fake news' that girls' schools are being closed amid reports of the Taliban going door to door and threatening people while seeking former government workers.
 
Fears ISIS will mount suicide bombing at Kabul airport | Daily Mail Online


Fears have been raised that ISIS will mount a suicide bombing at Kabul airport amid the chaos of the evacuation.

Ministers have admitted extremists could try to 'take advantage' of the desperate airlift to attack UK and US forces.

There are concerns that troops are 'having to keep their fingers on the trigger in one hand while holding a baby in the other' with desperate people trying to get away from the Taliban.

Defence minister James Heappey said suicide bombers were 'absolutely' one of the threats the operation faces.
 
SuziQ said:
I don't see anywhere in the deal where the military was supposed to be yanked out in the middle of the night and a air base abandoned before citizens were removed. Allowing tens of thousands of people to become hostages. I don't see where the agreement allowed for the Taliban to not have to meet conditions set before us withdrawing. You have more trust in the Taliban than I do. We will be lucky to get out unscathed. While US troops have not been attacked, our US citizens have been.
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The Bagram sourcing about "middle of the night with no warning" seems to be from the Afghan army, and was in early July, not last week when all the other bad stuff broke loose. US left Afghan airfield at night, didn't tell new commander The US military say the handover was coordinated, just not some big ceremony. I choose to trust them more than the Afghan army or the Taliban. I don't trust the former Afghan army any more than I trust the Taliban, since they pretty much let the Taliban overrun the country. But since the Afghan government was sidelined in lieu of making a handover deal with the Taliban back in Feb 2020, complete with release of 5,000 prisoners who now run the joint and photo ops and compliments about the Taliban's negotiating skills, the Taliban are in charge.

I truly wish that the nonstop chaos in this country hadn't been such a distraction so that this deal and their violations could have gotten more scrutiny than toothless requests: House Democrats demand Pompeo, Esper provide witnesses for Afghan hearing You are correct that there was no punishment for the Taliban violating in 2020 - I'm thinking that is because the former president wanted out just as much as the current one.

The Taliban want us out, and the only reason I doubt they will attack us is because that will keep us in with a vengeance.

As for US citizens, they knew to get going since April. So did they just not believe this would happen? Did some decide that they could live and profit in a country run by the Taliban? If there are US citizens who have been killed in the last week, I have not seen sourcing. But I know what the Taliban are capable of, and I am sorry that is happening.

Gunfire At Kabul Airport Kills One Afghan Soldier As Evacuations Continue

Biden says US-led evacuation from Kabul is accelerating
 
Afghanistan: Taliban say no extension to deadline for foreign troops to leave - BBC News
''BreakingAfghans can leave after 31 Aug with proper visas - Taliban
The Taliban are urging Afghan people to stay and rebuild their country but will not stand in the way of those who want to leave, if they have the correct documentation, a spokesman has told the BBC.

Suhail Shaheen said people could still leave on commercial flights after the deadline for foreign troops to leave by 31 August.

He said: "We are not putting hurdles in their way if they have a passport issued - they can go on commercial flights at any time. We want them to stay in the country but if they intend to go, they can... if they have the proper documents."

But he stressed there would be "consequences" if the foreign forces stayed beyond 31 August. He did not elaborate on what this would mean, saying only that the Taliban leadership would decide.

G7 members will meet virtually tomorrow to discuss whether to try to extend the 31 August deadline amid chaotic scenes at Kabul airport.''
 
TGIRecovered said:
Trump absolutely did not “surrender”, by any stretch of the imagination. MOO
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We released 5,000 prisoners who now run the place, and we did not hold them accountable for violations in 2020. There are more palatable things to call it than surrender. But it was a handover and a normalization of the Taliban, complete with photo ops and nice words. It sidelined the Afghan government, and it gave the Taliban a reason to prepare to pounce once US troops started moving. They just had to wait a little longer to take over, since Biden delayed the May date to Aug 31.

Trump’s Deal With the Taliban Draws Fire From His Former Allies

That agreement included guarantees that American security would not be threatened from Afghan soil, and required that the Taliban enter into negotiations with the Afghan government.

Nothing in the document mandated the Taliban to stop its military campaign, refrain from capturing Kabul or agree to an actual power-sharing deal with the Afghan government.

Nor did Trump officials place any public emphasis on the need to evacuate Americans and Afghan allies.
 
Reasonable & Just said:
We released 5,000 prisoners who now run the place, and we did not hold them accountable for violations in 2020. There are more palatable things to call it than surrender. But it was a handover and a normalization of the Taliban, complete with photo ops and nice words. It sidelined the Afghan government, and it gave the Taliban a reason to prepare to pounce once US troops started moving. They just had to wait a little longer to take over, since Biden delayed the May date to Aug 31.

Trump’s Deal With the Taliban Draws Fire From His Former Allies

That agreement included guarantees that American security would not be threatened from Afghan soil, and required that the Taliban enter into negotiations with the Afghan government.

Nothing in the document mandated the Taliban to stop its military campaign, refrain from capturing Kabul or agree to an actual power-sharing deal with the Afghan government.

Nor did Trump officials place any public emphasis on the need to evacuate Americans and Afghan allies.
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This is behind a pay wall so I can't read the entire article. When Biden took office he whipped out his pen and undid everything that Trump did. I'm supposed to believe that Biden couldn't do the same here? You just do not pull out troops before your citizens are out. There are a lot of mental gymnastics needed to blame this on Trump, who hasn't been in office for 7 months. Who gave the order to pull out on July 2nd? Who ordered the air base to be closed? Who ignored Intel that the Taliban would swoop in and take over? And as far as State Department warnings to leave, those warnings happen so often all over the world it is merely crying wolf. I would ask my son about those when they would pop up when he would call home. What's going on? What does this mean? Is the situation getting worse? He would say it is just another day in the Middle East.
 
shotgun09 said:
I am watching the Pentagon/ Defense Department Briefing currently on C-span. The continued and purposeful evasiveness of the question repeatedly asked by reporters, " How many American citizens have currently been evacuated?" is deliberate, IMO. Why?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?514208-1/defense-department-briefing-taliban-takeover-afghanistan&live
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Looks like getting Americans out is next to impossible. The only mention of the evacuation of Americans, specifically, I've seen is that they had to use a helicopter to get 169 Americans 656 FEET from their location to the airport. And it doesn't say whether they actually made it out of the country after that. If it's impossible for Americans to travel 656 feet on foot or by car, let's just say I'm not optimistic about other Americans being successfully evacuated. To say the least.

Helicopters used to bring Americans to Kabul airport from nearby hotel -official

WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - The United States military used three military helicopters to bring 169 Americans to the airport in Kabul from a building just 200 meters (656 feet) away, the Pentagon said on Friday.
 
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