The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

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I think that there's also something called "CBJ" which stands for "Car *advertiser censored*". I could be wrong about this.

Check out the Utopia post by Seeker6591 who asked about Jasmie, who I believe was Megan Waterman since the same phone number was used (207=807=9290). This entire thread seems dedicated to CBJs, or other types of quickies. I suspect the M.O. of the SK was to call and get a CBJ, at least in some instances where they were last seen walking to a car.

From the post, it looks like Megan advertised in June 2009 for a $60 CBJ.

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31831-p-8.html

We've found ads for different girls listed under the same phone number, Inspector. Some of these pimps have a stable of girls. If you can't see a pic with Megan in it, you really can't assume that it's Megan.

JMO

ETA: Further down the thread, an ad for Jasmine that someone posted says she is latina. Not Megan, I'd wager.
 
Alot of good thoughts in this post, Kemo. Just a few questions:

1). Where did you read that Melissa's phone was traced to 2 Long Island hotel's on the day of her disappearance? Can you link that info, please, because I must have completely missed that.

2). You mentioned "Sandra" in your post. I'm assuming that was a typo, but I want to fully understand what you're saying in your post, so can you clarify which girl you actually meant? Thanks.

First #2), I didn't mean Sandra, I ment Shannan.

RE #1) See http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/nyregion/26bodies.html?_r=3
 
~above BBM~

MK I have been considering the same thing. Aside from the money, what inticed these girls to break away from their usual precautionary habits? I thought of the party idea also, because that would be a legit reason why the girls went with this guy.

What are possible other reasons?

Could they have agreed to go with him because he claimed to be shooting some sort of video? I read that MBB made a friend thru a modeling site that introduced her to CL escorting. Also, SG had aspirations of being a singer/actress. This tactic could lure the girls to his 'studio'.

Is he/does he claim to be someone famous or recognizable in the area and requires the girls to be stealth to protect his identity? I'm not sure that I buy into this theory as he could be stealth entering a hotel or residence and this theory would include the big bucks promise. (which I am trying to exclude at this time) However, he made have offered them a 'new life' with the condition that they leave things from their 'old life' behind.

Any other ideas?

MOO

wm

I was a bit busy with other things, so I try to catch up. The idea with the movie/music guy has some merit, I think, at least as work theory for now. Wayne Williams rode that trick in the Atlanta Child Murders. However, the combination money (indicating client) and career chance (the Williams ruse) sounds hard to sell. Normally, if the victims wouldn't have been Craigslist escorts but just women from a certain are, I would think, this guy promised to pay not for sex but for a testshot or testtape (whatever those are called in the movie/music industry). The question is, how could he have figured this interest in the women?
 
From what I can tell there are three basic arrangements "Craigs List" Call Girls might use:

1) the "incall" (either at their own home like Amber or a hotel/motel like Maureen or Megan. This would offer some security (probably a cam and perhaps a "protector" in an adjoining room). It would offer no guarantees (think of the Craigslist killer) but it is extremely unlikely any of the GB4 were utilizing that particular arrangement at the time they were killed. It is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

2) The "outcall" to a motel/hotel. This was apparently what Melissa did on a regular basis. Since here phone was traced to two different motels in LI on the day she went missing, she probably had at least one "no problem" trick that day. The second motel her phone was traced to may have also been a "no problem" trick or it may have been with her killer. Still, it is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

3) The "outcall" to someone's house. This is probably the most lucrative arrangement but it is also potentially the most dangerous since the girl would be on the punter's turf and he would be in a position to do what he wanted and remove the body to a vehicle and dump it where ever he wanted. This is what Sandra was doing when she went missing and most likely what Megan was doing as well. Very likely all of the GB4 were doing one of these at the time they were killed.

It appears that all of the GB4 deviated from their standard procedure, without making any arrangements for security and not telling anyone where they were going or who they were with. I suspect they knew their "fatal" customer and trusted him. They must have had previous "dates with him that went without a hitch.

This is very consistent with other SK's who targeted hookers: they were regular customers who normally gave the girls no trouble. Only occasionally did they kill or engage in any violence.
I think it is almost certain that the killer (of the GB4 at least) was enough of a "regular" of all 4 girls to have gained their trust to deviate from their normal operation in hopes of a big payoff. Find any customer with links to two or more of them, and it’s probably they guy.

There are two details, I have to disagree with. First thing, it's hard to bring a body out of a hotel. It's not. A hotel is one of those places, nobody asks you what is going on, if you carry heavy luggage around. Dahmer killed one of his victims spontaneausly in a hotel room and then wnet all panicky about the body. So he walked out, went to a store, bought a fat chest, came back with it, stuffed the body in it and carried (or rather rolled it out with the hotel's help) because they all thought, it was just luggage, it's a hotel after all. My dive bag with all the equipment is big enough to put a body in it, I have been to hotels all over the world with it, and I think, nobody would ever have thought about the possibility. But when I carry the stuff out of my house to the car, I have all the time nosey neighbors coming at me with lines like "that's a lot of stuff".
The second detail is about the outcalls to client's places. This is rare for three reasons, not just one. It's risky, so the prostitutes don't like it but there is the money on the other hand. But more, most men in an income class that they can afford hookers are also in an age to be married. Which makes bringing a hooker home a little difficult. And even if not, houses have usually neighbors and neighbors are a lot nosier than hotel guests. So, if you can pin an oucall to a home to a client, it's a rather rare kind of John. Like Brewer, who didn't care too much about his reputation anyway.
 
There are two details, I have to disagree with. First thing, it's hard to bring a body out of a hotel. It's not. A hotel is one of those places, nobody asks you what is going on, if you carry heavy luggage around. Dahmer killed one of his victims spontaneausly in a hotel room and then wnet all panicky about the body. So he walked out, went to a store, bought a fat chest, came back with it, stuffed the body in it and carried (or rather rolled it out with the hotel's help) because they all thought, it was just luggage, it's a hotel after all. My dive bag with all the equipment is big enough to put a body in it, I have been to hotels all over the world with it, and I think, nobody would ever have thought about the possibility. But when I carry the stuff out of my house to the car, I have all the time nosey neighbors coming at me with lines like "that's a lot of stuff".
The second detail is about the outcalls to client's places. This is rare for three reasons, not just one. It's risky, so the prostitutes don't like it but there is the money on the other hand. But more, most men in an income class that they can afford hookers are also in an age to be married. Which makes bringing a hooker home a little difficult. And even if not, houses have usually neighbors and neighbors are a lot nosier than hotel guests. So, if you can pin an oucall to a home to a client, it's a rather rare kind of John. Like Brewer, who didn't care too much about his reputation anyway.

Where on earth do you dive in the midwest?! :eek:
 
Where on earth do you dive in the midwest?! :eek:

Pretty easy, I use planes to Asia, Europe and North Africa ... unless friends call me to help out if someone got lost in a lake. Which btw means, if I'm gone for some weeks, I'm either traveling or my publisher got me for missing a deadline :floorlaugh:
 
with the GB4....letting their guard down, or not telling anyone who the john was, or leaving their phones behind, it almost seems these girls were extremely *anxious* to see this john...they must have known he had lots of $$$, fancy car, big house, business owner or something. Although I've always felt JB was responsible, I think I'm leaning away from that now. I can't imagine anyone being anxious to see him...lol

And I can't imagine the ladies being anxious to see CPH at all either. I think the killer has got to be someone more debonair...better looking...more confident, etc. And I think it's possible that even though SG couldn't tell the 911 operator exactly where she was, that she had probably been to that community before..to the killer's home, and that's probably where she headed when she went down Anchor Way. I've been researching more of the residents in the southeastern vicinity of that community & found one who hires prostitutes left & right. I've emailed Suffolk County about him...we've briefly discussed him here before.
 
with the GB4....letting their guard down, or not telling anyone who the john was, or leaving their phones behind, it almost seems these girls were extremely *anxious* to see this john...they must have known he had lots of $$$, fancy car, big house, business owner or something. Although I've always felt JB was responsible, I think I'm leaning away from that now. I can't imagine anyone being anxious to see him...lol

And I can't imagine the ladies being anxious to see CPH at all either. I think the killer has got to be someone more debonair...better looking...more confident, etc. And I think it's possible that even though SG couldn't tell the 911 operator exactly where she was, that she had probably been to that community before..to the killer's home, and that's probably where she headed when she went down Anchor Way. I've been researching more of the residents in the southeastern vicinity of that community & found one who hires prostitutes left & right. I've emailed Suffolk County about him...we've briefly discussed him here before.

What are going to do, randomly start sleuthing every resident?

When you run out of bad people will you move to the next group of homes?

I could be wrong, but the last time I checked, it was against the rules to sleuth random people with no ties to the case. Besides, what proof do you have that SG ever set foot on Oak Beach before the day she went missing?

Please give that community a break.
 
I have also found one for Melissa:

According to the Manhattan district attorney's office, Barthelemy was arrested on Sept. 12, 2008, at Sixth Avenue and West 46th Street on suspicion of prostitution. In April 2009, she pleaded guilty to attempted prostitution, a misdemeanor, and was sentenced to five days of community service.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/faces-of-the-gilgo-beach-victims-1.2633910?qr=1

I'm sure this has probably been pointed out before but I couldn't find a post if it was...

Okay -
Barthelemy was arrested 9/08 at 6th & W 46th in Manhattan.
Brainard-Barnes Super 8 Motel was at 59 W 46th in Manhattan (between 5th & 6th)

So there's definitely a link between their locations in Manhattan
 
I'm sure this has probably been pointed out before but I couldn't find a post if it was...

Okay -
Barthelemy was arrested 9/08 at 6th & W 46th in Manhattan.
Brainard-Barnes Super 8 Motel was at 59 W 46th in Manhattan (between 5th & 6th)

So there's definitely a link between their locations in Manhattan

Redbird, don't so that! Some people here tried to scalp me several times for mentioning a Manhattan or NYC connection at all.
 
Redbird, don't so that! Some people here tried to scalp me several times for mentioning a Manhattan or NYC connection at all.
That was MrsPC who wrote that, not Redbird.

Btw, & fwiw, the reason you were "skewered" had nothing to do with mentioning Manhattan and everything to do with making assumptions based upon incorrect data.
 
That was MrsPC who wrote that, not Redbird.

Btw, & fwiw, the reason you were "skewered" had nothing to do with mentioning Manhattan and everything to do with making assumptions based upon incorrect data.

Incorrect as Maureen pohned from the bus terminal, yeah, I remember. Have a nice weekend all!
 
Shannan is described as being 5-foot-7 and weighing approximately 124 pounds, with blonde hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a brown leather jacket, blue jeans, a low cut black blouse and sandals. She has a small scar under her right eye, a tattoo of cherries on her left wrist, and a scorpion tattoo on her back.
-Source can be found here

What is up with the tattoos of fruit?

We have the Jane Doe who they call 'Peaches', and wasn't there another victim with a tattoo of a fruit??
 
-Source can be found here

What is up with the tattoos of fruit?

We have the Jane Doe who they call 'Peaches', and wasn't there another victim with a tattoo of a fruit??

Two of them. Cherries on SG's wrist and cherries on another victim (can't recall who or where found).

ETA: This is, of course, assuming that SG is a victim.
 
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