The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[LR1]

I followed these forums for 3 years now without making a single post until today.

Well, I would say you've definitely hit the ground running.

 

[BeachBods]

Why some fully intact bodies in burlap and some just random scattered not in burlap at all. Why weren' the mutilated bodies then placed in burlap after mutilation if this is a guy who evolved into a torso killer over time. One guy is clearly wrapping his trophies in burlap because it's obviosuly an important part of his ritual.

 

[LR1]

LE neither confirmed or denied the burlap. We also don't know if any of the other 6 had burlap associated. I would note, the potential burlap was the last four on the parkway to be killed in the span and in the 3+ year span of the GB4 no dismembered victim was intertwined in those years. It was this way and then it was that way. I can't make the leap to ritual wrapping with the burlap. It seems like it would make for an ideal camo covering that would decay over time and would leave no prints. Could simply be what he had available and he went with it.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I try to not get too far off in the weeds and it's helpful to not overthink and overcomplicate an otherwise straightforward set of serial killings. Forget about the differences in what was done after he murdered them for a moment. Pretend we don't know how they were found just that we have at least 5 sex workers, either full or partial sets and the potential of another 4 all found on the parkway at around the same time with postmortem intervals spanning 14 years.


We know how most must have been treated while in his presence and the outcome was exactly the same. Now, put yourself in the pu jkillers head back in 2000 when he left a murder victim, Jane doe #6, butchered in bags in manorville with her identifying parts brought to the Gilgo area 30 something miles away. Three years later JT turns up in similar fashion in manorville, again with her identifying parts brought to Gilgo and placed about a mile to the west from the parts that were placed three years earlier. We don't know who the Jane doe was but we know JT and that she was likely picked up in midtown. So skip ahead four years and Maureen is last seen in the midtown area and is later found 40 miles away again at Gilgo and again about a mile to the west of JT's partial set. Similar timing and similar spacing. Same last known location, same location found. Same victimology same victim description, young and white. All six killed by a serial killer and In my opinion he was one and the same.


With all the places to dump a body from midtown and beyond, Maureen was brought to a place where he knew from personal experience she could be dumped without being seen and a place where she would go undiscovered. No need to cut them up to hinder identification if they're not being found. I think it's those possibly 3-4 dormant years between Jessica and Maureen that will one day make sense of the differences in what was done after death. btw Asian male was thought to have a postmortem of at least 5 years so around 2006 give or take is when he was killed.


All my humble opinion.

Law Enforcement needs to keep a level of secrecy with certain details of the case. These details will be known only to the killer and Law Enforcement. Should the actual killer be caught these details will provide credibility to any claims or confessions made in the case.

Cases of prostitutes being murdered by deranged clients have been commonplace since Jack the Ripper and beyond. The crime itself is too broad to make any determination based on the act alone. The common characteristics of the victims and the differences in what was done after they were killed is the key here.

There is no doubt that the modus operandi In the case of the Gilgo Beach 4 was identical. Based upon the postmortem of Asian Male leaning to 2006, I believe he could have been Unsubs first victim. I can only speculate that had Asian Male been female his victimilogy would be identical to the Gilgo Beach 4. 2006 fits into the pattern of the next 4 years, with the exception of 2008 when I believe Unsub had a traumatic life experience. I also believe Unsub is still living somewhere on the South Shore of Long Island, and possibly still active with a new location to dispose his victims.

Jessica Taylor has been linked to both Manorville and Oceanrol Parkway. The modus operandi of her murder was completely different (dismemberment). John Bittsrolfs psychological profile and proximity to Manorville fits here. Unsub did not think about trying to hinder identification of his victims by dismembering him.

The Gilgo Beach 4 came to Unsub, whereas the killer of the unidentified, peaches & Jessica Taylor went to them.

Ocean Parkway is a 16 mile roadway that runs along the extreme south shore of Long Island between Jones Beach and Captree. It is not practical for anyone that lives in Nassau county, therefore is somewhat isolated. It is not uncommon to see isolated vehicles of surfers and fisherman parked on the shoulder. It is patrolled by one or two State Troopers at any given time. The shoulders are filled with weeds and bramble making it difficult to see either the bay or the ocean from the roadway. During rush hour there are a high number of commuters looking to avoid the Southern State Parkway traffic, but still light enough traffic for speeds up to 70 miles per hour. At night there are very few cars traveling the parkway. I believe this makes it a very inviting place for a killer who is familiar to use it as a place to dump his victims. Except for a couple of attractions including Gilgo Beach, Crazy Oyster and Oak Beach, it is empty.

I still believe there are two different killers, and Shannan Gilbert’s case is isolated.

 

[BeachBods]

That sounds pretty spot on. I have no doubt within the next few years some jogger will stumble upon the mass grave. One of these killers is most likely still active while his competition is either dead or been dealt a life sentence. I feel the gaps between his kills have a more practical reason than a dramatic life experience like the birth of a child. He is clearly a seasonal hunter. When not in season he has to follow this case carefully glorifying his kills by living among at least some of his trophies. If the death penalty was on the table for bittleroff we'd already have a plea deal and a little more insight as to which bodies he may lay claim to and which are actually lisks. Since bittleroff can only be tied by DNA to two victims he's technically not even a serial. He also has no proven ties oak beach and is never placed here by a single person actually willing to go on record. Internet gossip has bittleroff repairing a garage for gus coletti in the early 90s. This is purely here say since there is no actual source that has gone on record to corroborate this rumor. Maybe he did repair colletis garage as some point. I still don' see bittleroff partying among the rich elite of Oak beach. His ties to coletti are his only alleged link to oak beach and no papers ever even slightly mention this alleged tie. I wanna here someone actually point him out as ever being in Oak Beach or have ever hired him to do work in Oak beach.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I try to not get too far off in the weeds and it's helpful to not overthink and overcomplicate an otherwise straightforward set of serial killings. Forget about the differences in what was done after he murdered them for a moment. Pretend we don't know how they were found just that we have at least 5 sex workers, either full or partial sets and the potential of another 4 all found on the parkway at around the same time with postmortem intervals spanning 14 years.

We know how most must have been treated while in his presence and the outcome was exactly the same. Now, put yourself in the killers head back in 2000 when he left a murder victim, Jane doe #6, butchered in bags in manorville with her identifying parts brought to the Gilgo area 30 something miles away. Three years later JT turns up in similar fashion in manorville, again with her identifying parts brought to Gilgo and placed about a mile to the west from the parts that were placed three years earlier. We don't know who the Jane doe was but we know JT and that she was likely picked up in midtown. So skip ahead four years and Maureen is last seen in the midtown area and is later found 40 miles away again at Gilgo and again about a mile to the west of JT's partial set. Similar timing and similar spacing. Same last known location, same location found. Same victimology same victim description, young and white. All six killed by a serial killer and In my opinion he was one and the same.

With all the places to dump a body from midtown and beyond, Maureen was brought to a place where he knew from personal experience she could be dumped without being seen and a place where she would go undiscovered. No need to cut them up to hinder identification if they're not being found. I think it's those possibly 3-4 dormant years between Jessica and Maureen that will one day make sense of the differences in what was done after death. btw Asian male was thought to have a postmortem of at least 5 years so around 2006 give or take is when he was killed.

All my humble opinion.

If John Bittrolf is Unsub, and I don’t believe he is, Law Enforcment most likely will try to match his voice to that of Unsub on the calls to Amanda Barthelemy.

 

[White_Rabbit]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/truecr...ed-case-of-the-long-island-serial-killer/amp/

 

[LR1]

The Gilgo Beach 4 came to Unsub, whereas the killer of the unidentified, peaches & Jessica Taylor went to them.

Thanks for mentioning this, yes craigslist allowed him to pick and choose probably with MBB and MB and almost certainly with AC and MW without having to hit the street. The earlier victims would have required him to do the legwork and show his face and ride. The ones where he would've had to do legwork possibly exposing himself and vehicle to onlookers and cameras are the ones he dismembered and hid identifying parts. Dismemberment vs not.

If John Bittrolf is Unsub, and I don’t believe he is, Law Enforcment most likely will try to match his voice to that of Unsub on the calls to Amanda Barthelemy.

Do you think they have a recording?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Thanks for mentioning this, yes craigslist allowed him to pick and choose probably with MBB and MB and almost certainly with AC and MW without having to hit the street. The earlier victims would have required him to do the legwork and show his face and ride. The ones where he would've had to do legwork possibly exposing himself and vehicle to onlookers and cameras are the ones he dismembered and hid identifying parts. Dismemberment vs not.

Do you think they have a recording?

I know that were able to trace the calls, but not sure if they have recordings. They could however play samples of John Bittrolffs voice to Amanda Barthelemy.

 

[deedee21]

These bodies were dumped due to the convenience of the parties they were in attendance of. The location of these beach front graves holds real significance to the man who started placing these bodies and who may have inspired a copycat with loose ties to the white privieged neighborhood he could not be a part of due to his social and economic status.

Affordable beachfront, highrise building with a view can be found many miles west of Oak Beach.

 

[deedee21]

I know that were able to trace the calls, but not sure if they have recordings. They could however play samples of John Bittrolffs voice to Amanda Barthelemy.

They dont need Amanda.
LE met Bittrolff.
They heard his voice.

 

[White_Rabbit]

They dont need Amanda.

Why?

 

[White_Rabbit]

They dont need Amanda.
LE met Bittrolff.
They heard his voice.

Did they also hear the voice of the person who called Amanda?

 

[LR1]

I know that were able to trace the calls, but not sure if they have recordings. They could however play samples of John Bittrolffs voice to Amanda Barthelemy.

Recording or not it's always been a question pondered. Even after its insinuated they didn't. Looking back at it now it would be very unfortunate if either they didn't instruct the family to record it or the family didn't think to do it. I think it was a couple weeks of calls from her phone with apparently no sign of life so to speak. Maybe not enough to trigger them into thinking something was terribly wrong, especially in the beginning. nypd took it serious enough at some point to start tracing. They would have known about Jessica and Maureen and that at least one of them had been a victim of a sk 5-6 years prior. Who was the drunk sounding white guy making the calls?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Recording or not it's always been a question pondered. Even after its insinuated they didn't. Looking back at it now it would be very unfortunate if either they didn't instruct the family to record it or the family didn't think to do it. I think it was a couple weeks of calls from her phone with apparently no sign of life so to speak. Maybe not enough to trigger them into thinking something was terribly wrong, especially in the beginning. nypd took it serious enough at some point to start tracing. They would have known about Jessica and Maureen and that at least one of them had been a victim of a sk 5-6 years prior. Who was the drunk sounding white guy making the calls?

These days one can use an app to record calls on a cell phone. In 2009 it would be a lot more difficult for a person that were less than tech savvy. You would either need to put the phone on speaker and use a tape recorder, or purchase a “y” miniplug adapter along with one 1/8” miniplug wire and one set of headphones. The “y” adapter would plug into the phone. The 1/8” miniplug would plug one end into “y” adapter and the other into the microphone input of the tape recorder, and then the headphone set would plug into the other port on the “y” adapter. It would be difficult to do without some technical assistance.

It is my understanding that the person who called Amanda Barthelemy sounded to her like a middle age white guy, he had no accent and spoke “plainly”, accentuating his “S”s & “T”s. It is also my understanding that John Bittrolf has an accent that one person described as “Brooklynite”.

 

[LR1]

Begs the question whether he called the house phone or a cell, I don't recall. Yeah you make a good point about the steps it would take to properly record. If it was a home phone I would have maybe muted one with a small recorder close in on the ear-piece and used a separate one to talk answering them simultaneously. On the other hand I might have thought someone had stole her phone and was just being a dick. At least in the first few calls. Easy to monday morning qb though sitting here unaffected.

 

[deedee21]

Why?

Because Bittrolff is in custody.
They met him.
They are familiar with his voice.
They probably taped his interrogation.
They can make their own comparison.

 

[deedee21]

NYPD was in charge of MB case and Im sure they have technology we dont.

 

[LR1]

The phone was not being answered in NYC though and it takes a judge, time and PC for a wiretap. It'd also require a little imagination and forethought by NYPD.

 

[deedee21]

The phone was not being answered in NYC though and it takes a judge, time and PC for a wiretap. It'd also require a little imagination and forethought by NYPD.

Melissa lived in the Bronx.
Thats part of NYC.
Missing person report filed in the Bx.
Bx DET was on the case.
NYPD shared their files with SCPD after MB was found.