The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

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Okay, Melissa or Shannan or both? Who can find those articles again? Shannan was obviously at Oak Beach, we have witnesses. Would that mean, she had planned another client after Brewer?
 
Redbird said:
It was Shannan that had a regular client in NJ and did not show up.
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"A few of the numbers belonged to her regular clients, one of whom was a married man who told police that Barthelemy didn't show up for their scheduled date at a motel in Jersey City.

"He was more worried about his wife finding out than being a suspect in a serial killer case," said the Long Island law-enforcement source. "Her clients were regular Joes. She wasn't working for Heidi Fleiss."

Other numbers were traced to throwaway phones purchased in Manhattan. One of the phones was linked to the name Mickey Mouse."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life.html
 
NJGuy said:
"A few of the numbers belonged to her regular clients, one of whom was a married man who told police that Barthelemy didn't show up for their scheduled date at a motel in Jersey City.

"He was more worried about his wife finding out than being a suspect in a serial killer case," said the Long Island law-enforcement source. "Her clients were regular Joes. She wasn't working for Heidi Fleiss."

Other numbers were traced to throwaway phones purchased in Manhattan. One of the phones was linked to the name Mickey Mouse."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life.html
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The linked article says anything about a NJ client except for the LI one for Melissa.
The phone thing sounds interesting. Mickey Mouse was also the name, the man who called Terry has used, if I remember correctly? And bought in Manhattan? I so could go for someone with some amount of money and married, so he has to follow his extramarital activities out on LI, if it weren't for Maureen, who returned to NYC.
 
Peter Brendt said:
The linked article says anything about a NJ client except for the LI one for Melissa.
The phone thing sounds interesting. Mickey Mouse was also the name, the man who called Terry has used, if I remember correctly? And bought in Manhattan? I so could go for someone with some amount of money and married, so he has to follow his extramarital activities out on LI, if it weren't for Maureen, who returned to NYC.
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Melissa is the victim that had a date in Jersey City, NJ and never showed up as stated in the link I posted. Shannan lived in Jersey City but did not have a date scheduled in NJ after her Oak Beach date with Brewer.
 
Peter Brendt said:
Bus terminal (in NYC), Melissa apartment in the Bronx, Costello apartment in North Babylon, Megan prostitute since years and all the time coming in from what CT? Still you jump all the time on me if I only mention, this case could have it's center in NY. And everytime, I mention, Maureen called from the bus terminal and go from there, you construct things, like a client, she made out with at that time, but ignore the question way she was at the bus terminal in the first place.
So, as you wrote in another post, we will just have to agree to disagree.
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First of all, I don't "jump all over" anyone, Peter. Never have. And anyone who's been a member of websleuths for any length of time will tell you that.

Secondly, you are completely ignoring (or purposely skirting) the one thing you said with which I took issue. My ONLY criticism was your statement that Maureen booked an appointment earlier that day with a man who eventually returned to the PABT later that night to kill her. That's it. And again, I'm going to point out that there is no evidence to support that. IMO.
 
Maybe I'm starting to lose it, but something occurred to me. And if what I post is inaccurate please feel free to correct me, but do we know for sure Maureen was at the PA? Was she actually on the phone with her sister while she was the terminal waiting for a bus? Because msm reported Maureen was last seen at the PA, but who would've seen her? A witness? Highly doubtful because they don't know what they were witnessing, and if you've ever been to PA, no one pays attention to anything but catching their bus. Security cameras? Now I know transportation spots in NYC have more cameras than the White House, but trying to locate a specific individual at PA is like finding Waldo...anyway just a thought that maybe she was never actually at the PA. And again, if someone has a link where it says she was talking to her sister while standing at the bus terminal, disregard this entire post
 
NJGuy said:
Maybe I'm starting to lose it, but something occurred to me. And if what I post is inaccurate please feel free to correct me, but do we know for sure Maureen was at the PA? Was she actually on the phone with her sister while she was the terminal waiting for a bus? Because msm reported Maureen was last seen at the PA, but who would've seen her? A witness? Highly doubtful because they don't know what they were witnessing, and if you've ever been to PA, no one pays attention to anything but catching their bus. Security cameras? Now I know transportation spots in NYC have more cameras than the White House, but trying to locate a specific individual at PA is like finding Waldo...anyway just a thought that maybe she was never actually at the PA. And again, if someone has a link where it says she was talking to her sister while standing at the bus terminal, disregard this entire post
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NJGuy, I think you can find it here:


http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/life-and-death-in-the-shadow-of-fear-2621735.html
 
Mountain_Kat said:
First of all, I don't "jump all over" anyone, Peter. Never have. And anyone who's been a member of websleuths for any length of time will tell you that.

Secondly, you are completely ignoring (or purposely skirting) the one thing you said with which I took issue. My ONLY criticism was your statement that Maureen booked an appointment earlier that day with a man who eventually returned to the PABT later that night to kill her. That's it. And again, I'm going to point out that there is no evidence to support that. IMO.
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Fine, but the point you critisize is not even near to what I said. What I said is, she went to NY to meet with clients. Later she appears at the bus terminal. So, she must have met them before and was still alive.
 
NJGuy said:
Maybe I'm starting to lose it, but something occurred to me. And if what I post is inaccurate please feel free to correct me, but do we know for sure Maureen was at the PA? Was she actually on the phone with her sister while she was the terminal waiting for a bus? Because msm reported Maureen was last seen at the PA, but who would've seen her? A witness? Highly doubtful because they don't know what they were witnessing, and if you've ever been to PA, no one pays attention to anything but catching their bus. Security cameras? Now I know transportation spots in NYC have more cameras than the White House, but trying to locate a specific individual at PA is like finding Waldo...anyway just a thought that maybe she was never actually at the PA. And again, if someone has a link where it says she was talking to her sister while standing at the bus terminal, disregard this entire post
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There were reports, she called friends because she was upset after someone has robbed her. According to what others brought together, it was more the venting steam kind of call, even there was also the question for a ride involved. But I can't find the articles together right now. As far as I know no eye witnesses but only phone witnesses.
 
Peter Brendt said:
Fine, but the point you critisize is not even near to what I said. What I said is, she went to NY to meet with clients. Later she appears at the bus terminal. So, she must have met them before and was still alive.
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Yes, it is exactly what you said.

"this pattern of all four going to a client, one returning from this client and get abducted later"

The way I read that is that you were saying one of the girls (Maureen, I assume) had seen this particular client (the killer), returned from seeing him, and was later abducted and killed by him. That's how I read it.

Perhaps we are getting our wires of communication crossed. I don't know. But I need to move on from this now.
 
Kind of interesting:

According to the Manhattan district attorney's office, Barthelemy was arrested on Sept. 12, 2008, at Sixth Avenue and West 46th Street on suspicion of prostitution.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/faces-of-the-gilgo-beach-victims-1.2633910

If news reports are accurate, Maureen had gotten a room at Super 8 on West 46th street the weekend prior to her disappearance.

(Probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought I'd draw attention to it anyway. You never know.)
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Yes, it is exactly what you said.

"this pattern of all four going to a client, one returning from this client and get abducted later"

The way I read that is that you were saying one of the girls (Maureen, I assume) had seen this particular client (the killer), returned from seeing him, and was later abducted and killed by him. That's how I read it.

Perhaps we are getting our wires of communication crossed. I don't know. But I need to move on from this now.
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You interpret wrong. Maureen had seen a client (NOT killer) left there and met her killer later. Which brings me to the theory, that maybe none of them was killed by a client but all of them by a stalker. I have three possibilities for common denominators, but since I am too far from NY and not familiar enough with the area, I can't check them out.
 
The only place we can place all four girls at is unfortunatly virtual. Craigslist. After that it seems they were scattered through out the area (no common place where ALL can be tied to except for the dump site). This tends to make me believe that a stalker killer is not very plausable. Unless of course, he is stalking them online. But that would take alot of logistics, time and money. Also, it would suggest that the hunt is just as thrilling as the killing is. If this SK is a sexual sadist as some profilers believe, he would not be as intrested in stalking, but only as a means to find victims. BTK stalked his victims, but that was due to his job driving around Wichata. This SK has the internet and can find his victims fairly fast and with as little effort as possible. Lets not give this guy too much credit.
 
nugzter said:
The only place we can place all four girls at is unfortunatly virtual. Craigslist. After that it seems they were scattered through out the area (no common place where ALL can be tied to except for the dump site). This tends to make me believe that a stalker killer is not very plausable. Unless of course, he is stalking them online. But that would take alot of logistics, time and money. Also, it would suggest that the hunt is just as thrilling as the killing is. If this SK is a sexual sadist as some profilers believe, he would not be as intrested in stalking, but only as a means to find victims. BTK stalked his victims, but that was due to his job driving around Wichata. This SK has the internet and can find his victims fairly fast and with as little effort as possible. Lets not give this guy too much credit.
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Maureen Brainard-Barnes: Last trace was the phone call from the bus terminal
Melissa Barthelmy: Last seen in the Bronx
Megan Waterman: She is the only one who was really last seen on Long Island
Amber Costello: Last seen leaving North Babylon, but her bf/pimp says, she wanted to go to LI.
The point is, all four of them had also business in Manhattan. Not the nights they disappeared maybe, but in general over the time. IF the killer is a sexual sadist ... which is exactly the problem. Sexual sadists come in all colors and shapes. Generally, the higher the degree of organization, the longer they stalk. This guy is organized. And the internet theory has one slight advantage: Most sadists covet by seeing.
 
Peter Brendt said:
Maureen Brainard-Barnes: Last trace was the phone call from the bus terminal
Melissa Barthelmy: Last seen in the Bronx
Megan Waterman: She is the only one who was really last seen on Long Island
Amber Costello: Last seen leaving North Babylon, but her bf/pimp says, she wanted to go to LI.
The point is, all four of them had also business in Manhattan. Not the nights they disappeared maybe, but in general over the time. IF the killer is a sexual sadist ... which is exactly the problem. Sexual sadists come in all colors and shapes. Generally, the higher the degree of organization, the longer they stalk. This guy is organized. And the internet theory has one slight advantage: Most sadists covet by seeing.
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Maureen Brainard Barnes: cell phone pinged from a LI cell tower at least 6 months after she disappeared.
Melissa Barthelemy: cell phone pinged from a tower in Massapequa (which is on LI).
Amber Lynn Costello lived in North Babylon, which is in Long Island.
Megan Waterman disappeared from a hotel in Hauppague...which is also LI.

To me, the Long Island connection is blaringly obvious.

I have never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Megan ever worked in Manhattan. I've never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Amber worked in Manhatta. Is it possible that they did? I guess. But I've never seen any evidence to support that.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Maureen Brainard Barnes: cell phone pinged from a LI cell tower at least 6 months after she disappeared.
Melissa Barthelemy: cell phone pinged from a tower in Massapequa (which is on LI).
Amber Lynn Costello lived in North Babylon, which is in Long Island.
Megan Waterman disappeared from a hotel in Hauppague...which is also LI.

To me, the Long Island connection is blaringly obvious.

I have never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Megan ever worked in Manhattan. I've never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Amber worked in Manhatta. Is it possible that they did? I guess. But I've never seen any evidence to support that.
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I agree. LI sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm am sure the girls worked in Manhattan at some point , some of them maybe even on the night that they disappeared. Alot of people go from place to place to earn money. It's like being a contractor, of sorts. You go where the job is.
 
nugzter said:
I agree. LI sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm am sure the girls worked in Manhattan at some point , some of them maybe even on the night that they disappeared. Alot of people go from place to place to earn money. It's like being a contractor, of sorts. You go where the job is.
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Agreed. But we were able to find only 7 ads posted for Megan, and out of the 7 random ads we could find, all but one were for Suffolk County. The other was from ME.

May 13, 2009: Suffolk
June 16, 2009: Suffolk
June 23, 2009: Suffolk
September 2, 2009: Suffolk
May 31, 2010: Portland
June 6, 2010: Suffolk

If this was just a random sampling of what ads we could find for her, how come nothing popped up from anywhere else? Backpage doesn't take down their ads...so where are the ones listed for NYC, if they exist? See what I'm saying?

I just think we're making a mistake if we assume that all these girls worked in Manhattan. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But they ALL have ties to Long Island. That much is obvious, and verifiable.

Megan only worked out of hotels, and didn't do out calls (according to those who knew her).
Maureen only worked out of hotels and didn't do out calls (according to those who knew her).
So, in the case of these two girls at least, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't book rooms and then go hopping around meeting clients all over NY. The clients came to them.

JMO
 
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