The Girlfriend's Statement

[jjenny]

Let me preface this post by first saying that I lubz all my fellow WS posters, regardless of whether we agree on cases or not.



However, I have to say, I find it somewhat odd that I am seeing some posters on here who are berating this alleged girlfriend for not reporting what she heard to anyone or for allegedly waiting so long to report it to anyone, because I recall many of these same posters defending these same actions in another recent Florida case where a young mother failed to report her daughter missing for 31 days. In that case, many felt that we could not assume she was guilty because she didn't report because everyone dealt with grief differently, or she may have been afraid. Yet, now, this young woman isn't afforded the same.



Just something to think about. IMO

There might be people that defended actions of "young mother" in another recent FL case, but I resent the implication that those are all the same people that have questions about g/f waiting to give a statement in this case until contacted by a lawyer. I, for one, thought the idea of not reporting a child missing for 31 days is ludicrous, to say the least.

 

[LambChop]

While I understand what you are saying, one thing that is significantly different is that the situation with your friends had to do with an accident. In TM's situation, the possibility existed that someone was solely responsible for *murdering* him.

I certainly understand that she's young and her emotions and actions lack the maturity we would expect from an adult. But if I had heard something that gave me the impression that one of my closest friends - possibly a boyfriend - had been murdered and the murderer was accusing my friend of starting it... and I knew differently based on what I had heard... and his parents, people I had possibly known since kindergarten, well... I have to think I would say something.

We don't know that she didn't. jmo

 

[LambChop]

There might be people that defended actions of "young mother" in another recent FL case, but I resent the implication that those are all the same people that have questions about g/f waiting to give a statement in this case until contacted by a lawyer. I, for one, thought the idea of not reporting a child missing for 31 days is ludicrous, to say the least.

I believe Chefmon stated many and not all. jmo

 

[jjenny]

I believe Chefmon stated many and not all. jmo

And what's the evidence for "many?"

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And we know how reliable the MSM sources have been. So reliable three NBC employees were fired for editing GZ's 911 call to portray him as a racist. MSM won't touch the g/f's story, it will make them look too unsympathetic. JMO

I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the sorry state of what passes for these reporting days, and not only in this case. What those fired employees did was appalling, IMO, and they deserved to be fired.

I don't agree that MSM won't touch the g/f's story for fear of looking unsympathetic. They are in the business of making money, and controversy sells. Sympathy doesn't enter the equation.

All that being said, however, for me the issue is this. This Websleuths rule is very clear:

Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.

And I see this rule violated again and again--even by a mod--on this forum WRT this other decidedly non-MSM source.

So IMO either this rule should be tossed and any old source allowed, or it should be enforced.

JMO as always.

 

[Karmady]

And what's the evidence for "many?"

Idk, but I know it's not me since I wasn't even a member here then. So if it's not you and it's not me, there can't be very "many" left. lol

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't think that will be considered evidence of anything to do with this case, plus her medical records would be protected. It would be her version against GZ's and MOM is trying to seal GZ's statements because he considers them confessions. jmo

Medical records are not necessarily protected from subpoenas.

 

[sleonardelli]

Even if she wasn't a g/f, as a friend, I don't doubt she is very upset by what happened to Trayvon. But in my opinion, friends and relatives are not exactly "independent" witnesses, so I interpret whatever she heard over the phone with that in mind. And to me, her story doesn't seem to be all that different from Zimmerman's. Trayvon asked Zimmerman why Zimmerman followed him.
Zimmerman responded with what Trayvon was doing there (which appears to be what Zimmerman wanted to know all alone). Then she heard some sort of noise and the head set fell off. I do think that scenario is similar in both version, even if there are differences on what exactly was said. She obviously didn't witness Zimmerman hitting or pushing Trayvon, so she is speculating to that. But there are no injuries to Trayvon to support the idea Zimmerman ever hit him.

She says she also heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off". http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42) That leads me to believe that GZ laid hands on Trayvon.

 

[jjenny]

She says she also heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off". http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42) That leads me to believe that GZ laid hands on Trayvon.

I guess we are going to go in circles. Have you listened to the actual interview where she said that? "Get off" was supposedly heard after the head set already fell off. The lawyer is previously quoted saying last thing she heard was someone hitting the phone.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Even if she wasn't a g/f, as a friend, I don't doubt she is very upset by what happened to Trayvon. But in my opinion, friends and relatives are not exactly "independent" witnesses, so I interpret whatever she heard over the phone with that in mind. And to me, her story doesn't seem to be all that different from Zimmerman's. Trayvon asked Zimmerman why Zimmerman followed him.
Zimmerman responded with what Trayvon was doing there (which appears to be what Zimmerman wanted to know all alone). Then she heard some sort of noise and the head set fell off. I do think that scenario is similar in both version, even if there are differences on what exactly was said. She obviously didn't witness Zimmerman hitting or pushing Trayvon, so she is speculating to that. But there are no injuries to Trayvon to support the idea Zimmerman ever hit him.

I haven't listened to her statement. Just jumping off from your post and asking the group at large, not you personally, is there anything in there where Trayvon told her the man had stopped following him so now he was going to turn around and follow him back? As GZ stated what happened?

 

[TorisMom003]

While I understand what you are saying, one thing that is significantly different is that the situation with your friends had to do with an accident. In TM's situation, the possibility existed that someone was solely responsible for *murdering* him.

I certainly understand that she's young and her emotions and actions lack the maturity we would expect from an adult. But if I had heard something that gave me the impression that one of my closest friends - possibly a boyfriend - had been murdered and the murderer was accusing my friend of starting it... and I knew differently based on what I had heard... and his parents, people I had possibly known since kindergarten, well... I have to think I would say something.

And she did say something. If she had kept quiet then we would not have this thread. I find it odd that so many are willing to believe that she lied about the conversation and what she heard and yet are willing to believe Zimmerman on his account of what happened. Zimmerman has a huge reason to cover his arse. Trayvon's friend does not. She is not charged with 2nd degree murder and is not facing the possibility of spending the rest of her life in prison, that would be Zimmerman. The account between the friend and Zimmerman are different. Zimmerman claims that Trayvon asked him if he had a problem and then said well you do now. The friend claims that Trayvon asked why are you following me. In Zimmerman's account Tryavon is hostile. In the friend's account Trayvon is asking a question that any normal human being would ask when being followed by a stranger. There is a major disconnect between the two and out of the two only one has a reason to lie, IMO.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

And she did say something. If she had kept quiet then we would not have this thread. I find it odd that so many are willing to believe that she lied about the conversation and what she heard and yet are willing to believe Zimmerman on his account of what happened. Zimmerman has a huge reason to cover his arse. Trayvon's friend does not. She is not charged with 2nd degree murder and is not facing the possibility of spending the rest of her life in prison, that would be Zimmerman. The account between the friend and Zimmerman are different. Zimmerman claims that Trayvon asked him if he had a problem and then said well you do now. The friend claims that Trayvon asked why are you following me. In Zimmerman's account Tryavon is hostile. In the friend's account Trayvon is asking a question that any normal human being would ask when being followed by a stranger. There is a major disconnect between the two and out of the two only one has a reason to lie, IMO.

MOO

Neither one of them was writing down exactly what was said, I presume.
If you know anything about witness testimony is that there bound to be inconsistencies between two witnesses.

 

[LambChop]

Medical records are not necessarily protected from subpoenas.

But it has no relevance to the case and she's a minor. What would it prove regarding TM death? He was already dead when she went to the hospital. She's a witness and the hospital has nothing to do with his death. jmo

 

[TorisMom003]

Neither one of them was writing down exactly what was said, I presume.
If you know anything about witness testimony is that there bound to be inconsistencies between two witnesses.

And yet the witness statements that have Zimmerman as the one being "attacked" are taken as gospel. I have said before that witness statements are unreliable. And yet Zimmerman's account of things is also being taken as gospel. Trayvon "attacked" Zimmerman because Zimmerman said so, regardless of the fact that Zimmerman has a huge reason to lie and not admit if he was at fault.

MOO

 

[wowitsdark]

And she did say something. If she had kept quiet then we would not have this thread. I find it odd that so many are willing to believe that she lied about the conversation and what she heard and yet are willing to believe Zimmerman on his account of what happened. Zimmerman has a huge reason to cover his arse. Trayvon's friend does not. She is not charged with 2nd degree murder and is not facing the possibility of spending the rest of her life in prison, that would be Zimmerman. The account between the friend and Zimmerman are different. Zimmerman claims that Trayvon asked him if he had a problem and then said well you do now. The friend claims that Trayvon asked why are you following me. In Zimmerman's account Tryavon is hostile. In the friend's account Trayvon is asking a question that any normal human being would ask when being followed by a stranger. There is a major disconnect between the two and out of the two only one has a reason to lie, IMO.

MOO

Two quick things...

1) Based on statements made in this thread, I was under the impression that it was some weeks (three?) before she spoke to anyone - at least in LE - and that the conversation didn't occur until after the police were able to get into TM's phone and determined that he had been talking to someone at her number.

I apologize if I misunderstood, but that's the impression I got from previous posts.

2) I have not accused her of lying - not at all. However, I disagree with your assessment that she has nothing to hide, therefore, she must be telling the truth. If my #1 is correct, she had three weeks to play the conversation over in her head, and usually, I think people tend to mentally emphasize pieces of information that they deem relevant as they replay conversations in their head. It's human nature.

She *probably* has nothing to hide. I have not seen anything to make me think she does. That said, it's impossible to know what they were talking about. They were kids, and he had been shipped off to another home (his dad's fiance's) because he was in trouble with school administrators. He wasn't a squeaky clean boy. We don't know if she was a squeaky clean girl. We have no evidence about her character at all. Absolutely none, good or bad, so to characterize their conversation in any way is to presume facts not in evidence.

Also, I think it would be human nature to want to preserve the memory of a deceased friend and to feel protective of their honor. Especially if it was a person one was especially close to. Just as many here on this forum 'read' things in a certain light depending on whether their 'loyalties' lie with GZ or TM, it's entirely possible - likely, even - that the statements TM said to her on the phone and the tone she detected in his voice were tempered by her loyalty to him.

It doesn't make her bad or a liar. It would just mean that she is human.

 

[jjenny]

And yet the witness statements that have Zimmerman as the one being "attacked" are taken as gospel. I have said before that witness statements are unreliable. And yet Zimmerman's account of things is also being taken as gospel. Trayvon "attacked" Zimmerman because Zimmerman said so, regardless of the fact that Zimmerman has a huge reason to lie and not admit if he was at fault.

MOO

Taken as gospel? Not on most on this board, that's for sure.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was "crazy and creepy" and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.

Link: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-creepy-man-following-him-friend-says-636631/

So for her story to support Zimmerman's, she also has to say at some point that TM turned around and followed Zimmerman back.

Did she? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[jjenny]

In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was "crazy and creepy" and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.

Link: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-creepy-man-following-him-friend-says-636631/

So for her story to support Zimmerman's, she also has to say at some point that TM turned around and followed Zimmerman back.

Did she? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

No, she never says that. But she does have Trayvon asking the first question. So that suggests to me that at the very least Trayvon stopped and faced Zimmerman.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

But it has no relevance to the case and she's a minor. What would it prove regarding TM death? He was already dead when she went to the hospital. She's a witness and the hospital has nothing to do with his death. jmo

I have no idea. I was only trying to clarify your statement "her medical records are protected." It was a tangent, sorry.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

No, she never says that. But she does have Trayvon asking the first question. So that suggests to me that at the very least Trayvon stopped and faced Zimmerman.

Thank you. But GZ said he stopped following TM and was returning to his truck when TM jumped him. So her statement IMO certainly does not support GZ's. TM may well have, and IMO probably did, stop and faced Zimmerman. But that is nowhere near the same thing as following him and jumping him from behind as GZ supposedly stated.

Again not directed at you, just jumping off from your post.