The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[glamourkitty1922]

What could have happened was JonBenet herself putting on the panties. She wakes up, doesn't like what she is wearing and changes. Kids do things like that.

 

[otg]

Thank you. Was she actually in the casket in Atlanta? The body in the casket as we speak is missing the skull? I honestly do not know.

I'll give you a simple explanation because the details are probably more than you (or anyone else here) wants to know.

In order to remove and examine the brain, a Medical Examiner makes an incision across the scalp so it can be "reflected," exposing the skull. The skull is then cut with a specially designed saw (Stryker saw) that cuts the bone without damaging soft tissue. The top of the skull is cut in such a way that when it is returned, it doesn't slide back on a reposed body. Then the scalp is pulled back over it and sewn up. The victim's hair covers the incision stitches. If the brain is kept for evidence, the empty space is filled with material that absorbs blood so it doesn't seep out.

 

[BOESP]

What could have happened was JonBenet herself putting on the panties. She wakes up, doesn't like what she is wearing and changes. Kids do things like that.

Just curious about where you think JonBenet found the panties and what you think happened to the rest of the size 12 panties if JonBenet put on a pair herself? TIA

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Can someone please refresh my memory on a few things?

1. Were the size 12 Bloomies urine stained like the long johns she was wearing?
2. Is it an established fact that Burke's dna was found on the Barbie nightgown? I don't recall reading that anywhere.
3. Is it an established fact that blood was found on the Barbie nightgown?

 

[UKGuy]

Can someone please refresh my memory on a few things?

1. Were the size 12 Bloomies urine stained like the long johns she was wearing?
2. Is it an established fact that Burke's dna was found on the Barbie nightgown? I don't recall reading that anywhere.
3. Is it an established fact that blood was found on the Barbie nightgown?

Mountain_Kat,

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.


.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Mountain_Kat,

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.


.

Thanks. Do we know if this was touch dna, or was it from some other source?

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks. Do we know if this was touch dna, or was it from some other source?

Mountain_Kat,
it was touch-dna. If you consider all the RDI theories then those that suggest the pink barbie nightgown arrived in the wine-cellar accidently, might have to reconsider, since BR's touch-dna should not be on a freshly laundered item?

.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Mountain_Kat,
it was touch-dna. If you consider all the RDI theories then those that suggest the pink barbie nightgown arrived in the wine-cellar accidently, might have to reconsider, since BR's touch-dna should not be on a freshly laundered item?

.

That's why I asked. I've been sitting on the "static cling" bench for a long long time.

ETA: ALTHOUGH, it's not impossible that Burke retrieved the blanket from the dryer. But it is one more thing to add to the overall confusion wrecking havoc in my brain. :gaah:

 

[UKGuy]

That's why I asked. I've been sitting on the "static cling" bench for a long long time.

ETA: ALTHOUGH, it's not impossible that Burke retrieved the blanket from the dryer. But it is one more thing to add to the overall confusion wrecking havoc in my brain. :gaah:

Mountain_Kat,

Its entirely possible that Burke retrieved the blanket from the dryer. I reckon the pink barbie nightgown is just too large to have missed it, if it tagged along via static. Even if it did what is BR's touch-dna doing on it? So to keep the static idea flying you need make extra assumptions.

It looks to me as if JonBenet had been wearing the pink barbie nightgown and somebody decided to redress JonBenet, then threw the gown into the wine-cellar.
If there really was a Tiara left in the wine-cellar then it begins to look like someone had dressed JonBenet as a Pageant Princess?

.

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Mountain_Kat,

Its entirely possible that Burke retrieved the blanket from the dryer. I reckon the pink barbie nightgown is just too large to have missed it, if it tagged along via static. Even if it did what is BR's touch-dna doing on it? So to keep the static idea flying you need make extra assumptions.

It looks to me as if JonBenet had been wearing the pink barbie nightgown and somebody decided to redress JonBenet, then threw the gown into the wine-cellar.
If there really was a Tiara left in the wine-cellar then it begins to look like someone had dressed JonBenet as a Pageant Princess?

.

I can't make out (and I'm not that familiar with Barbie stuff), but is that a "Princess Barbie" on the nightgown?

​

 

[UKGuy]

(bbm)
I can't make out (and I'm not that familiar with Barbie stuff), but is that a "Princess Barbie" on the nightgown?

​

otg,
Yes it is. In one of the interviews Patsy confirms it as JonBenet's favorite barbie nightgown. But not the one in that picture, which looks reddish to me?

.

 

[jillyr1059]

Can someone please refresh my memory on a few things?

1. Were the size 12 Bloomies urine stained like the long johns she was wearing?
2. Is it an established fact that Burke's dna was found on the Barbie nightgown? I don't recall reading that anywhere.
3. Is it an established fact that blood was found on the Barbie nightgown?

It occurs to me that someone redressed her and they were most concerned with the bottom half being covered

They told the police she was carried up to bed asleep in the clothes from the party and Patsy put the long underwear on her

But perhaps she was awake and had the Barbie nightgown on when the whole thing started?

They redressed her in the white top from party, a too big pair of panties and the white long johns.

Leaving the dirty Barbie gown on the floor next to her, they wrapped her in the blanket.

She expired and her body released fluids...which accounts for urine stains, while on the floor in wine cellar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cattlekate]

Would posters be so kind as to summarize their theories regarding the too-big panties?

It's been years since I stopped following JBR. Now I'm trying to catch up on the panty inconsistencies but it's overwhelming.

Years ago, I thought Patsy deliberately and pre-meditatedly sacrificed her daughter for her own special crazy reasons. She planned it for Christmas Day, gave JBR the gold bracelet with the date, got a My Twinn Doll in order to have something to hug while she waited to join JBR in heaven, and wrote the note in advance before she fed JBR a special treat of pineapple. But after hitting JBR with the flashlight, she was unhappy the size 6 Wednesday panties were soiled. So when she redressed JBR, she found the new package and pulled out the too-big Wednesdays. They had to say Wednesday as that had to be the date of JBR's journey to Jesus.

Now, after trying to catch up and maybe coming around to the idea that it was an accident occurring while Patsy tidied up JBR's bedroom, using a flashlight so as to not disturb JBR, and perhaps in a sleep medication alter state, I still have outstanding questions about the panties.

1) Were size 6 Wednesday panties found, soiled or unsoiled?
2) Did JBR have panties which did not have embroidered days of the week?
3) When did the Boulder PD collect the panties from JBR's bedroom dresser? Is there an inventory of those panties?
4) When did the Boulder PD inspect JBR's bathroom drawers? I think the bathroom drawer is where Patsy later said they were, and thus they had the package (minus the Wednesday pair) a year or so later while in Atlanta and mailed them to the BPD.
5) Were there soiled pull-ups in JBR's bedroom or bathroom? Was an attempt made to determine what time period they came from?
6) Was there a present for cousin Jenny, either in the wine cellar or on the plane or mailed prior?

 

[UKGuy]

Would posters be so kind as to summarize their theories regarding the too-big panties?

It's been years since I stopped following JBR. Now I'm trying to catch up on the panty inconsistencies but it's overwhelming.

Years ago, I thought Patsy deliberately and pre-meditatedly sacrificed her daughter for her own special crazy reasons. She planned it for Christmas Day, gave JBR the gold bracelet with the date, got a My Twinn Doll in order to have something to hug while she waited to join JBR in heaven, and wrote the note in advance before she fed JBR a special treat of pineapple. But after hitting JBR with the flashlight, she was unhappy the size 6 Wednesday panties were soiled. So when she redressed JBR, she found the new package and pulled out the too-big Wednesdays. They had to say Wednesday as that had to be the date of JBR's journey to Jesus.

Now, after trying to catch up and maybe coming around to the idea that it was an accident occurring while Patsy tidied up JBR's bedroom, using a flashlight so as to not disturb JBR, and perhaps in a sleep medication alter state, I still have outstanding questions about the panties.

1) Were size 6 Wednesday panties found, soiled or unsoiled?
2) Did JBR have panties which did not have embroidered days of the week?
3) When did the Boulder PD collect the panties from JBR's bedroom dresser? Is there an inventory of those panties?
4) When did the Boulder PD inspect JBR's bathroom drawers? I think the bathroom drawer is where Patsy later said they were, and thus they had the package (minus the Wednesday pair) a year or so later while in Atlanta and mailed them to the BPD.
5) Were there soiled pull-ups in JBR's bedroom or bathroom? Was an attempt made to determine what time period they came from?
6) Was there a present for cousin Jenny, either in the wine cellar or on the plane or mailed prior?

cattlekate,
1. No information relating to Days Of The Week have ever been released.

2. Same answer as 1.

3. Over a few days, there is no detailed public inventory, just lists on search warrants itemizing stuff: e.g. female underwear.

4. Some point after her death.

5. Not certain about this.

6. No information regarding the gifts has been revealed, and I think the stuff in the plane was never taken into custody.

.

 

[otg]

Would posters be so kind as to summarize their theories regarding the too-big panties?

It's been years since I stopped following JBR. Now I'm trying to catch up on the panty inconsistencies but it's overwhelming.

Years ago, I thought Patsy deliberately and pre-meditatedly sacrificed her daughter for her own special crazy reasons. She planned it for Christmas Day, gave JBR the gold bracelet with the date, got a My Twinn Doll in order to have something to hug while she waited to join JBR in heaven, and wrote the note in advance before she fed JBR a special treat of pineapple. But after hitting JBR with the flashlight, she was unhappy the size 6 Wednesday panties were soiled. So when she redressed JBR, she found the new package and pulled out the too-big Wednesdays. They had to say Wednesday as that had to be the date of JBR's journey to Jesus.

Now, after trying to catch up and maybe coming around to the idea that it was an accident occurring while Patsy tidied up JBR's bedroom, using a flashlight so as to not disturb JBR, and perhaps in a sleep medication alter state, I still have outstanding questions about the panties.

1) Were size 6 Wednesday panties found, soiled or unsoiled?
2) Did JBR have panties which did not have embroidered days of the week?
3) When did the Boulder PD collect the panties from JBR's bedroom dresser? Is there an inventory of those panties?
4) When did the Boulder PD inspect JBR's bathroom drawers? I think the bathroom drawer is where Patsy later said they were, and thus they had the package (minus the Wednesday pair) a year or so later while in Atlanta and mailed them to the BPD.
5) Were there soiled pull-ups in JBR's bedroom or bathroom? Was an attempt made to determine what time period they came from?
6) Was there a present for cousin Jenny, either in the wine cellar or on the plane or mailed prior?

1) "She (Holly Smith) found something else in the room, however, which raised an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material." (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?227384-Feces&p=10013860#post10013860)
2) Never heard that any other than the Bloomies had days of the week.
3) http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-inventory.htm
4) Ibid.
5) Don't know.
6) Patsy said in her interviews that she had purchased the Bloomies for Jenny and later gave them to JonBenet. She said she couldn't remember if she bought a separate package in an appropriate size specifically for JonBenet (but none were found in BPD searches).

 

[DeDee]

Mountain_Kat,
it was touch-dna. If you consider all the RDI theories then those that suggest the pink barbie nightgown arrived in the wine-cellar accidently, might have to reconsider, since BR's touch-dna should not be on a freshly laundered item?

.

Actually, it could. tDNA could be on her nightgown without BR ever actually touching the nightgown. It is called transfer DNA Touch and transfer are nearly synonymous. With a freshly laundered gown, all that was required was for the gown to touch anything Burke had touched previously picking up the slightest skin cells. The nightgown containing BRs tDNA does not mean that BR and JB were in the room at the same time that the tDNA got onto the gown.


"Touch DNA can be transferred by a handshake from one person to another, then to an object like a knife or a gun. [or a nightgown]

... Reason behind the study ... But it appeared the results indicated that it could even implicate unrelated people who just happened to leave their DNA on another person or an object that could become a point of investigative interest."

http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/11/secondary-transfer-new-phenomenon-touch-dna

In other words, tDNA can create false leads in cases. This is not a DNA case b/c so little is present and what is there is degraded.

 

[RickshawFan]

I am new to theJBR forum, not WS, so bear with me....Has it ever been proposed that JBR herself put on the outsize underpants?

My thought goes like this:

1. JBR imagined "big girl" panties would keep her safe from having her private parts assaulted because "who would do that to a big girl?" Or, "I'll be a big girl so I can protect myself" Or, "this stuff doesn't happen to big girls, so I'm going to pretend I'm a big girl." Or even, "Mom knows I have the Wednesday ones on and I messed up. I'll just put the big Wednesday ones on. That way she won't notice."
2. JBR got this idea in part (or altogether) because PR would berate her, saying: "Put your big girl panties on" and JBR didn't realize it was a metaphor 'cos she was 6 and kids take metaphors at face value. JBR knew to wear the Wednesday ones "'cos you're supposed to wear the Wednesday ones on Wednesdays."


Question: who buys day-of-the-week underpants for a middle-schooler? I can't even imagine the 12-14 underwear was for a niece. I had some of those when I was eight. At 12? Are you kidding me? I wouldn't have been caught dead in underpants like that. In the locker room changing for PE?


My speculation....

 

[PositiveLight]

I want to throw this out there.
I know a lot of people (including me and my daughter ... I know TMI but I'm sure we aren't the only ones...
But I can't stand underwear that are my size. They have to be bigger. Now mind you not twice my size but bigger. Maybe she felt bigger panties were comfortable. I want to say I read somewhere (Not sure of truth no link) that she had different sized underwear in her drawers. Up to size 10... again no links.... so maybe she did grab the Wednesday pair out of the new package and thought they were meant for her. Although, PR said they were a gift for someone.... I take anything she said with a grain of salt. If her lips were moving she was lying after that baby died JMOO.
But she was tiny. She couldn't have worn those big panties under her dress. They would have fallen off in my opinion. So the panties are definitely a questionable issue. Again a small detail but the small details are what matter here. They draw the bigger picture.

ETA: wanted to add another thought too. Maybe she had bigger panties to go over her pullups? So she still felt like a big girl?

 

[PositiveLight]

1) "She (Holly Smith) found something else in the room, however, which raised an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material." (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?227384-Feces&p=10013860#post10013860)
2) Never heard that any other than the Bloomies had days of the week.
3) http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-inventory.htm
4) Ibid.
5) Don't know.
6) Patsy said in her interviews that she had purchased the Bloomies for Jenny and later gave them to JonBenet. She said she couldn't remember if she bought a separate package in an appropriate size specifically for JonBenet (but none were found in BPD searches).

DEAR BABY JESUS. Just when this case can't get any weirder or darker.... feces enters the picture. This is true it is a possible sign of sexual abuse. I agree also about the child purposely soiling themselves to keep a abuser at bay. Also can show signs of rectal issues. Whether that was considered in the abuse factor or not. No links. Just what I've been taught by SANE nurses that do the evidence kits after a rape or alleged abuse.
Also though she might not have cleaned herself properly after pottying.
But finding feces all over different places...? I wonder if they tested it for DNA? To see whose it was.
I can understand halfway on the panties that it might be innocent.... but not when its found in all different type places.
JMOO:notgood::notgood:

 

[RickshawFan]

I am new to theJBR forum, not WS, so bear with me....Has it ever been proposed that JBR herself put on the outsize underpants?

My thought goes like this:

1. JBR imagined "big girl" panties would keep her safe from having her private parts assaulted because "who would do that to a big girl?" Or, "I'll be a big girl so I can protect myself" Or, "this stuff doesn't happen to big girls, so I'm going to pretend I'm a big girl." Or even, "Mom knows I have the Wednesday ones on and I messed up. I'll just put the big Wednesday ones on. That way she won't notice."
2. JBR got this idea in part (or altogether) because PR would berate her, saying: "Put your big girl panties on" and JBR didn't realize it was a metaphor 'cos she was 6 and kids take metaphors at face value. JBR knew to wear the Wednesday ones "'cos you're supposed to wear the Wednesday ones on Wednesdays."


Question: who buys day-of-the-week underpants for a middle-schooler? I can't even imagine the 12-14 underwear was for a niece. I had some of those when I was eight. At 12? Are you kidding me? I wouldn't have been caught dead in underpants like that. In the locker room changing for PE?


My speculation....

Later add on...PR could have put the outsize Wednesday panties on JBR as punishment. Was it even Wednesday?

My uninformed speculation: I see so much evil and manipulation in this household.