The Package and the Defense Motion

[shadowraiths]

Yes, she would have to know he represents an imminent threat to himself or others, but how would she know this unless he told her? I suppose she somehow could have figured it out without him telling her-but I doubt it.

Hypothetically, others can bring such an individual to her or other's attention based upon observations. Or, for that matter, he could exhibit behaviors that raised suspicion. At this time, that we are aware, that did not happen. And, afaics, nothing he did indicated warning signs. Even though he was stocking up on firearms and ammunition. Plenty of people do that and don't go ballistic on innocents. Regardless, I am not claiming there were warning signs to be had. I am simply challenging your assertion that there is only one path to a 72 hour hold.

 

[February]

"Will you visit me in prison" is quite ambiguous. I don't think that would qualify as an imminent threat. Obviously none of AFF members became alarmed or reported him. You can find worse examples on the internet, and those people for the most parts don't do anything, they are just trying to be original or funny. In addition, I really doubt he would give his AFF profile to his psychiatrist.

well That is your opinion. If i see my friend posted that, i will be alarmed and contact his friends, family or even a cop.

At this time, you and I and everyone here dont know if the Psychiatrist knows that AFF site. I am actually surprise to see the Psychiatrist being associated to the game World of Warcraft on her conference as part of psychotherapy so anything is possible at this time.

 

[jjenny]

Hypothetically, others can bring such an individual to her or other's attention based upon observations. Or, for that matter, he could exhibit behaviors that raised suspicion. At this time, that we are aware, that did not happen. And, afaics, nothing he did indicated warning signs. Even though he was stocking up on firearms and ammunition. Plenty of people do that and don't go ballistic on innocents. Regardless, I am not claiming there were warning signs to be had. I am simply challenging your assertion that there is only one path to a 72 hour hold.

I personally think it's way to easy for people to stock up on firearms and ammunition. A lot of things could be implemented there that, in my opinion, could save lives.

 

[February]

I say maybe? Maybe not... We dont know yet.

exactly...

 

[songline]

I would like for somebody to come up with examples of behavior he would have to exhibit for her to know he is a direct threat to others. And I don't think red hair would work. He was sitting in court looking quite pitiful. Would any of you know that he was a danger to others by simply looking at him and his weird facial expressions?

Knives, driving real fast to threaten and scare someone, cutting himself, burning, cruelty to a child or animal...you really don’t need more....
PEOPLE have been known to exhibit these behaviors is that enough of a danger to themselves and others. Oh there are a few on my previous post too.

 

[Roxye]

Knives, driving real fast to threaten and scare someone, cutting himself, burning, cruelty to a child or animal...you really don’t need more....
PEOPLE have been known to exhibit these behaviors is that enough of a danger to themselves and others. Oh there are a few on my previous post too.

We have no proof, as of yet, that JH exhibited any of these behaviors to anyone.

 

[songline]

We don't have any information that he ever attempted a suicide.

NOP we have no evidence yet that he was a threat to himself or anyone else. NO WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL YET.
Just dead bodies.

And you don’t have any more fact than anyone else. So people here don’t have to believe you as you so indicate.

 

[songline]

We have no proof, as of yet, that JH exhibited any of these behaviors to anyone.

No... of course not but jjenny said that the only way for anyone to know if he was dangerous is if he told his therapist.
BUT IT S NOT THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW. nobody knows very much yet.

 

[shadowraiths]

I would like for somebody to come up with examples of behavior he would have to exhibit for her to know he is a direct threat to others.

For one, she would not know. No one can know. The best she, or anyone can do, is to assess a situation... to predict risk factors. These factors can include everything from obsessive beliefs that incorporate violence. Fixating on an individual and stalking them. Sinking into suicidal ideation. Importantly, notable decompensation. Extreme behavioral changes that might suggest organicity, a psychotic break with reality, something of that nature. Even then, unless the behavior is so extreme as to raise concerns, nothing can really be done. Not even a 72 hour hold. The key here, would be extreme and noticeable changes that would raise valid concerns. Again, am not stating that he exhibited any of this. Simply challenging your belief that a person has to tell their therapist some plan to do something to be put on a 72 hour hold.

 

[songline]

What exactly do people expect? Universities do have to follow HIPAA and FERPA. So they are not supposed to release information about a student, even without a GAG order. When they say that the package arrived on Monday July 23, and anonymous source for fox news was not accurate, some people still refuse to believe it.

IT is not that we refuse to believe you. It is that we are not sure of the facts a t all.

 

[jjenny]

Knives, driving real fast to threaten and scare someone, cutting himself, burning, cruelty to a child or animal...you really don’t need more....
PEOPLE have been known to exhibit these behaviors is that enough of a danger to themselves and others. Oh there are a few on my previous post too.

Most of those behaviors you described are actually illegal. He'd be arrested if he exhibited any of these behaviors. I am talking about him going to her office. Without him talking, how would she know about imminent danger to others?

 

[jjenny]

For one, she would not know. No one can know. The best she, or anyone can do, is to assess a situation... to predict risk factors. These factors can include everything from obsessive beliefs that incorporate violence. Fixating on an individual and stalking them. Sinking into suicidal ideation. Importantly, notable decompensation. Extreme behavioral changes that might suggest organicity, a psychotic break with reality, something of that nature. Even then, unless the behavior is so extreme as to raise concerns, nothing can really be done. Not even a 72 hour hold. The key here, would be extreme and noticeable changes that would raise valid concerns. Again, am not stating that he exhibited any of this. Simply challenging your belief that a person has to tell their therapist some plan to do something to be put on a 72 hour hold.

I presume he'd still have to talk to her about these beliefs.

 

[February]

arty: It's getting hot in here arty:


What's the title of the music JH was playing on repeat at his apartment?
wanna see some lyrics..

 

[songline]

Most of those behaviors you described are actually illegal. He'd be arrested if he exhibited any of these behaviors. I am talking about him going to her office. Without him talking, how would she know about imminent danger to others?

I think you should read ShadowCatcher's reply to you a few posts up. Maybe #229.

I can’t say it any better than that.

 

[songline]

arty: It's getting hot in here arty:


What's the title of the music JH was playing on repeat at his apartment?
wanna see some lyrics..

LOL :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: OK cool...

 

[February]

LOL :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: OK cool...

:genie:

I want to know if the title is Killing Game by Skinny Puppy and link for confirmations

 

[jjenny]

I think you should read ShadowCatcher's reply to you a few posts up. Maybe #229.

I can’t say it any better than that.

As far as I understand the paragraph below, he would have to make a threat for her to take action. Otherwise, she won't be held liable for failing to predict his violent behaviors.

"Under Colorado law, mental health professionals cannot be held liable in civil suits for failing to predict a patient's violent behavior unless it involves a "serious threat of imminent physical violence against a specific person or persons." When such a threat is made, the mental health professional is required to take action, which may include notifying those targeted or a law enforcement agency."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hirdfuneralbre86q197-20120727,0,4468820.story

 

[songline]

Tomorrow they will charge him and the list will be long. He will be shocked at what he is charged with.
But he did ask some on craigslist if they would visit him in jail… So at least one of him knows where he is and why.
We are going to say he is acting again... great.... No matter what he is not getting off... it is not a case of who done it.
I want to hear all the charges and see how this may shake out, how University will describe why he failed his oral, and how he seemed to them as a student.
I am curious why it may take this long to detect MI before someone harms so many. I know it is not easy to detect but they have seen him daily in school and I want to hear how and when they think he spiraled. It will take some time, I am sure.
He is not going to be set free, so those of you jumping on him just please relax, he is permanently incarcerated and a lot of people do not want him to ever be free. I just want to know how he was able to keep going so long what would make him think this way, why?
Yes I think they should throw away the key… but I want to understand if at all I can, by the facts, that they can string together.

I do pitty him – he is a tortured soul.
You must be to want t do somethins so horrific.

 

[songline]

As far as I understand the paragraph below, he would have to make a threat for her to take action. Otherwise, she won't be held liable for failing to predict his violent behaviors.

"Under Colorado law, mental health professionals cannot be held liable in civil suits for failing to predict a patient's violent behavior unless it involves a "serious threat of imminent physical violence against a specific person or persons." When such a threat is made, the mental health professional is required to take action, which may include notifying those targeted or a law enforcement agency."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hirdfuneralbre86q197-20120727,0,4468820.story

This does not say he had to SAY anything BEHVIOUR SPEAKS LOUD.

 

[songline]

:genie:

I want to know if the title is Killing Game by Skinny Puppy and link for confirmations

I am tired and going to sleep.. LOL
WTF are you talking about - Please dont lose your mind.
Stay Strong