The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[whiskeygurl]

With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

 

[eg@gm]

I thought when Cindy called in to 911 originally she stated the car had been stolen. If it was for Casey's use why did she call and say the car was stolen?

I believe they let her use the car cause Casey gets what Casey wants or else the whole family pays a price. The Anthony's may have cooked up in their head that if anything ever happens (such as an accident) involving the car they will say they didn't give Casey permission to use it, she must have stolen it.....

I think she was just so mad and couldn't think of any other way to get Casey to start talking about where Caylee was. She wanted to scare her.

 

[concentric]

Short answer is yes. See Wikipedia.



Particle board, carpet, paper...all porous materials. Contact must be made between the fluid and the material - it cannot occur across an airgap.

Thanks. Wonder if she had Caylee under there if/when George saw the trunk re: the gas cans.

Contact with the body would have been possible, especially if she loaded some stuff on top of that area, which would press the carpet/board, etc. closer to the body.

 

[Baznme]

Thanks. Wonder if she had Caylee under there if/when George saw the trunk re: the gas cans.

Contact with the body would have been possible, especially if she loaded some stuff on top of that area, which would press the carpet/board, etc. closer to the body.

That wheelwell is only 5 inches deep. It was pretty tight in there.

 

[shadow of my mind]

I have been thinking….
Two things about the A's going back to work on July 15.
If they were going to be home why take the battery out of the car so it could not be taken?
Someone at both Cindy's and George’s work would be able to verify if they came back to work or not.

The main question is did someone clean the trunk out because they only found one hair in the trunk.

The car was not taken right away by LE on July 15 but was towed on the July 16th. I do not recall if there is any documentation to when that took place. We do know that Johnson’s was called to come and pick up the car from the A’s home. Johnson’s is one of the designated towing company’s that do contract work for OCSO.

What initiated the car being towed at that point?
Apparently GA told LE about the garbage in the back of the trunk because it was retrieved from the tow yard the night of July 16 as per Simone B. statement in his interview. The question is when did GA impart this information to LE.

Casey was arrested about 5:00PM on July 16 and up until that time LE was still treating this case as strictly a kidnapping. The car was not an issue.

I would think that had GA said anything to LE about the smell in the car he would have done so the night of July15 and the car trunk would have been sealed and the car taken a lot sooner than 24 hours later. Since the bag of garbage was not retrieved from the tow yard until later on night of July 16th I would have to assume that nothing was said. So to me that means that the car was not an issue the night of July 15 or even the early morning hours of July 16 and not really paid attention to by LE at all until it was towed later in the day on July 16th and the bag was retrieved from the yard.
If this is the case Cindy, George or Lee could have cleaned out the trunk anytime LE left after bringing Casey back from her tour of Orlando with the officers. IIRC that was at approximately 7:00AM and they did not come back to pick her up to take her to Universal until about noon on July 16. If there was no LE still at the home between 7AM and noon that would be a more ideal time to when the car could have been cleaned.


This is all speculation. We would have to go over the reports by LE to see if there is a way to discern when someone from LE was at the A’s home and if there was in fact an opportunity open for the car to be cleaned.
I have to get back to the kitchen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this on the 'Casey Borrowered Cindy's car' thread but it has more relevance here.

Quoting myself and answering myself. I bolded what I wanted to find out.

I went back and listened to the Bond Hearing video by Cindy to get this information. I knew I had heard the times in reference to LE at the home on July 15-16 somewhere.

Cindy answering a question about being able to spend any time alone with Casey

There was LE there all night and into the morning. I maybe was able to spend a minuet or 2 in passing alone but that was all. They kept us separated, I was in the house and I knew that they had taken Casey out in there car several times, but I don’t know exactly when but when the Officers brought Casey back to the house the morning of July 16th about 7:00-7:30AM and was in Casey was in her room talking on the phone until about 10:00AM and they worked on creating a myspace page together for about 2 hours until noon when the detective came back and picked her up.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/My...1&locale=EN-US

There is not mention of any LE at the home from the time Casey was dropped off around 7:00-7:30AM until they came and picked her up at noon to go to Universal Studios for more questioning.

 

[JusticeorJustUs]

Does anyone know if there is a picture of the trunk of the Pontiac anywhere? Does anyone know if the carpeting was gray?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BeanE]

Quoting myself and answering myself. I bolded what I wanted to find out.

I went back and listened to the Bond Hearing video by Cindy to get this information. I knew I had heard the times in reference to LE at the home on July 15-16 somewhere.

Cindy answering a question about being able to spend any time alone with Casey

There was LE there all night and into the morning. I maybe was able to spend a minuet or 2 in passing alone but that was all. They kept us separated, I was in the house and I knew that they had taken Casey out in there car several times, but I don’t know exactly when but when the Officers brought Casey back to the house the morning of July 16th about 7:00-7:30AM and was in Casey was in her room talking on the phone until about 10:00AM and they worked on creating a myspace page together for about 2 hours until noon when the detective came back and picked her up.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/My...1&locale=EN-US

There is not mention of any LE at the home from the time Casey was dropped off around 7:00-7:30AM until they came and picked her up at noon to go to Universal Studios for more questioning.

- Lee reported in his OCSO LE interview that he and Casey were alone in the garage while the sheriffs were at the house. If true, while not an opportunity for major cleaning, it was certainly an opportunity for removal of evidence from the car, and possibly some minor/quick wiping up.

- In a news interview, neighbor Brittany Schieber reported looking out the window on the morning of July 16 and seeing the car in the driveway, opened up, and George and Cindy cleaning it out. I've been trying to find this interview again to see if she added any more detail of what she meant by cleaning, i.e., taking stuff out of the car, or wiping and scrubbing.

I've also been looking for the elusive 3rd OCSO LE interview of Cindy to listen to again for her account of Lee and George's activities July 15/16. Starting re-listening yesterday to George's OCSO LE interviews for his account of everyone's activities.

I'll pass on in this thread anything of note I come across.

 

[Fridawolf]

With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

I've wondered about this too. From the very beginning I was thinking that maybe the chloroform was used in the attempt to get rid of forensic evidence. I wonder what date the chloroform searches were done. If they were done after June 16 then Maybe KC was researching it for clean up purposes. If the searches were done July 15, maybe CA did them (after car was retrieved). But did they say that "chloroform and death" were being websearched (in conjunction with eachother or as separate searches)? I wouldn't put it past CA to do a little cleaning with chloroform--everything she does in the attempt to cover for KC (verbally or otherwise) seems to backfire! CA, by her own devices, has done more to implicate and redflag KC than help her.

 

[Spitfire4ever]

I've wondered about this too. From the very beginning I was thinking that maybe the chloroform was used in the attempt to get rid of forensic evidence. I wonder what date the chloroform searches were done. If they were done after June 16 then Maybe KC was researching it for clean up purposes. If the searches were done July 15, maybe CA did them (after car was retrieved). But did they say that "chloroform and death" were being websearched (in conjunction with eachother or as separate searches)? I wouldn't put it past CA to do a little cleaning with chloroform--everything she does in the attempt to cover for KC (verbally or otherwise) seems to backfire! CA, by her own devices, has done more to implicate and redflag KC than help her.

Chloroform searches were done in March 2008

 

[BeanE]

Finally found a PDF transcript of the Aug 4 OCSO LE interview of Cindy. Here's the additional info I found as promised:

http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/cynthia anthony.pdf

Page 2073, line 23

Cindy claims she got home between 5:30 and 6pm. Didn't go through the car. Found Amy's resume under Casey's purse on the front seat. Called Amy.

Next page. Detective asks her if she thinks Amy called Casey after Cindy called Amy. Cindy says Amy didn't say, and there was nothing to indicate she had.

Note of interest: page 2101, line 2, Cindy says Amy's resumes (plural) were not only in Casey's bag, but in an envelope in Casey's bag. Between this interview and the FBI interview, Cindy keeps changing her mind about whether Amy's resume was IN the bag or UNDER the bag. She makes a point to say to she didn't go through the stuff in the car, although nobody ever asks her if she did or not. Personally, I'm gonna have to assume that Cindy went through that bag and for some reason is worried that somebody is going to find out.

 

[MaryAnn]

With the recent news that came out in the e-mail Cindy sent to the previous spokes person about tampering with the hair brushes. I come right back to the car. Her washing them pants, and possabilities of her wiping the car clean but not being able to remove the odor. Cindy had access to chloroform and it is use to clean stuff like that. I wonder if Cindy tried to remove any evidence that might have been in the car itself. Also I feel that there is something odd in Cindy. I would have to ponder that Cindy herself might be more deeply involved then some might wanna to admit.

I never thought of that. That does make a lot of sense. It's obvious now that CA will do anyting to save KC. This could also be the reason why she won't take a lie detector test. Maybe KC overdosed Caylee with Xanax. I can't even imagine how that poor baby would feel on xanax. I've taken it and I personally hate it. It makes me feel horrible.

 

[Baznme]

Is it my imagination or is there a tear in the underside of the black bra of KC's car? Looking at it from the front, look to the left of the midline (bottom).

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...sey-anthony-car-111408,0,4447460.photogallery

 

[kageykaren]

Looks like a tear. I wonder if those darn cocleburs or anything else might have been caught in that rip?

 

[Baznme]

Looks like a tear. I wonder if those darn cocleburs or anything else might have been caught in that rip?

I wonder if LE put that car on a lift and took a good look at any tissue or debris that might have been under there and around where that tear is.

I saw in the news that's what the defense team wants to do.

 

[Bobo]

Finally found a PDF transcript of the Aug 4 OCSO LE interview of Cindy. Here's the additional info I found as promised:

http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/cynthia anthony.pdf

Page 2073, line 23

Cindy claims she got home between 5:30 and 6pm. Didn't go through the car. Found Amy's resume under Casey's purse on the front seat. Called Amy.

Next page. Detective asks her if she thinks Amy called Casey after Cindy called Amy. Cindy says Amy didn't say, and there was nothing to indicate she had.

Note of interest: page 2101, line 2, Cindy says Amy's resumes (plural) were not only in Casey's bag, but in an envelope in Casey's bag. Between this interview and the FBI interview, Cindy keeps changing her mind about whether Amy's resume was IN the bag or UNDER the bag. She makes a point to say to she didn't go through the stuff in the car, although nobody ever asks her if she did or not. Personally, I'm gonna have to assume that Cindy went through that bag and for some reason is worried that somebody is going to find out.

<Bolding by me>
IIRC, in the text messages between KC and Amy, there was a period of time (mid-June? -please don't make me go back to those text messages:bang when KC was going to give Amy's resume to several of her contacts at Universal. All a lie, of course, but Amy was trying to get a better-paying job and was grateful for KC's "help." Poor Amy.

 

[sometimer]

There was one recent interview with CA where she stated that she ask LE if she could go ahead and wash the clothes and they told her yes. Then later they wanted them. (I don't have a link for it)
In the 911 call she stated that the car smelled like a dead body, so LE was aware of that when they first arrived.
I don't think the LE took things seriously when they first arrived. I believe they thought it was just a family dispute and everyone there was just overreacting.
I don't think CA OR GA realized this was really happening at first either. They thought they could force KC to tell them where Caylee was.

 

[debs]

There was one recent interview with CA where she stated that she ask LE if she could go ahead and wash the clothes and they told her yes. Then later they wanted them. (I don't have a link for it)
In the 911 call she stated that the car smelled like a dead body, so LE was aware of that when they first arrived.
I don't think the LE took things seriously when they first arrived. I believe they thought it was just a family dispute and everyone there was just overreacting.
I don't think CA OR GA realized this was really happening at first either. They thought they could force KC to tell them where Caylee was.

You know, you are absolutely right. It is on the 911 call that Cindy makes the statement about the dead body in the damn car. Why DIDN'T they take that car that night? Why DIDN'T police determine that it should be impounded immediately? It wasn't due to reluctance on the Anthony's part; George allowed them to take it as soon as they asked for it.

This will be a great unknown for me.

 

[Bev]

They didn't seize the car because they had to get a search warrant first. Even if the suspect or the suspect's family gives LE "permission" it is still best practice to obtain a warrant.

 

[Bobo]

You know, you are absolutely right. It is on the 911 call that Cindy makes the statement about the dead body in the damn car. Why DIDN'T they take that car that night? Why DIDN'T police determine that it should be impounded immediately? It wasn't due to reluctance on the Anthony's part; George allowed them to take it as soon as they asked for it.

This will be a great unknown for me.

I dunno. I just thought that the initial responding officers were responding to the theft complaint. Then, after the 3rd 911 call with the "my granddaughter's missing--something's wrong" and "smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" statements from CA, then another division (Yuri's missing children) was called in and arrived later than the first LE responders. What I don't understand is if the car smelled so bad and was in the garage with the doors/trunk open "airing out," did no one from LE ever go in the garage and smell that smell?

I'm not sure Yuri's responders heard the 911 call before responding. Does anyone know how that works? That is, when a 911 call is made, how is it determined which division of LE responds? And further, does that division of LE listen to the 911 call itself before responding?

I'm thinking that the 911 folks get enough info from the 911 call to determine which LE division to send out and the officers sent are not necessarily briefed on all the details of the call. In this case, the Theft Division (or whatever it's named) was called first; the Missing Children Division (or whatever is Yuri's Division) was called next, not Homicide. It was only after KC led Yuri, et al on a wild-lie-chase that they were able to see that this may not be just a missing child case. Thus, the delay in looking at the Pontiac Sunfire -- Everyone led them in directions away from the car. :MOO:

Anyone know for sure?

ETA> Oh yeah, Bev -- GOOD CALL! Search Warrant is a good thing!

 

[april_showers]

If this murder was premeditated, it was a really crappy job…

I know that isn’t much of a surprise considering everything we’ve learned about KC over the past six months.

However, I’ve always had the feeling that this whole situation was at least loosely premeditated – at least along the lines of random fantasies of revenge on CA, a quick peek at a chloroform site here and a missing children’s site there… daydreams about being the new, hot single girl around town, etc.

I don’t believe she ever really thought the details through, however. I think, with KC’s entire life spent within the Anthony bubble, she truly believed this issue would exist only within that bubble – as long as she kept her mother at bay she’d be fine. Hence no real effort to cover her tracks.

I know most / all of this has been said before.

What I’m getting at here (and I hope I can verbalize this correctly), is how shockingly simple the whole scenario has turned out to be. She did the deed, drove to her parent’s, climbed into the woods… and took care of the remains (and likely “jogged” back to her house from the entrance to the woods on Suburban).

But I just can’t stop thinking about that car. This case’s “Tell-tale Heart,” if you will. KC erased her daughter from her life, and quickly moved on as if nothing had happened. Until a smell started to emanate from the trunk that she could not get rid of. It got worse, and worse, and worse. That car, that smell, that constant reminder of what had occurred. The ticking tell-tale heart. It got so bad that she was forced to abandon her car. And then things went completely awry.

And now, when all is said and done, with the location of poor Caylee’s remains, I cannot help thinking…

She didn’t even need that car.

If she had thought about doing this – why not just do it in the yard (as some have speculated) and toss the body back in the woods? No decomp in the car – no CA calling police on the smell, etc.

I know there are a million other scenarios at play – why it must have happened elsewhere, a crime of passion or anger after the big fight… she probably didn’t realize decomp would leave such a lasting trail so quickly, etc.

But – if we are to assume that she put some thought into this scenario before actually taking action… I can’t help but think what would have happened if she had just done the deed the Anthony’s yard. They would have noticed an odd smell a week or so later, moved a few bushes and pavers around, and washed their hands of it.

And KC might still be cooking dinner at Tony’s apartment this evening.

And that, fellow sleuthers, is the scariest part of all...