The Ramseys are Cleared

[Zelda]

Well, if the pubic hair matches the DNA on her clothes, then I will say the intruder theory is looking a lot stronger. I don't think beavers got her though.

Very funny. Did Patsy have a beaver coat? Or John a jacket with beaver tim and or lining?
Do you think beavers lived in the basement? Entering through the broken window?
Just kidding.

 

[lilywhite]

Competency goes to traditional determinants for the reliability of evidence, and competency guages differ for the four types of evidence; i.e., real, documentary, testimonial and demonstrative.

For example, if Cherokee is not a hand writing expert, you should not expect that a trial Judge would even permit his opinion to be admitted as testimonial evidence at trial.

Would he be competent to testify as to his "opinion"? Yes. Would he be competent to testify as an "expert". No.

He would represent neither expertise nor best evidence.

And I would say that Cherokee's gathering of the handwriting evidence all in one place for the convenience of people who want to look and judge for themselves, or read the opinions of those who have been deemed experts, does not make Cherokee an "expert" in the context you are using it but it certainly passes the test for "competency." (Why is "competency" a word? I've never thought about it until this moment, but why make a noun out of what's already a noun, i.e. adding -y to competence?) (That wasn't a dig at you, it was a grammar tangent; I'm wont to ramble off on those.)

 

[LinasK]

I think this is bull, I rarely post but agree with Tricia's press release.

Someone tell us about the missing cell records from December of 96 ... correct me if I am wrong but weren't they lost or destroyed on two phones for John and one for Patsy????? Has anyone ever heard of cell records just being gone? They have become a vital tool in so many cases and yet this family who was alerting people that horrible morning seem to have no record of their calls. How conveinant .... do we know who was the carrier for the phones?

Plus the fiber evidence just screams who done it!

Whatever has been wrong in Boulder seems to just get worse as time goes by.

Pam Paugh makes me sick with her interviews, she went in that house and removed things that have never been recovered to this day.

I cannot believe the latest twists in this bizarre case.

K in Texas

Welcome! Feel free to post more. I'm glad you can see so clearly what others cannot. Yes, Pam had no business removing the My Twinn doll among other things...

 

[lilywhite]

It's not THAT they found fibers that matched family members.... it's WHERE they found them.

Fibers consistent w/ Patsy's sweater UNDER the tape on her mouth.

Fibers consistent w/ John's sweater the night before in her underpants.

There are more, I just can't recall them off the top of my head.

Fibers consistent with Patsy's [something] entwined in the garrotte? (Am I remembering or even spelling that right?)

 

[lilywhite]

Originally Posted by Medea
Well, if the pubic hair matches the DNA on her clothes, then I will say the intruder theory is looking a lot stronger. I don't think beavers got her though.


Very funny.

Medea's on a roll with the funny.

 

[trixie]

I think this is bull, I rarely post but agree with Tricia's press release.

Someone tell us about the missing cell records from December of 96 ... correct me if I am wrong but weren't they lost or destroyed on two phones for John and one for Patsy????? Has anyone ever heard of cell records just being gone? They have become a vital tool in so many cases and yet this family who was alerting people that horrible morning seem to have no record of their calls. How conveinant .... do we know who was the carrier for the phones?

Plus the fiber evidence just screams who done it!

Whatever has been wrong in Boulder seems to just get worse as time goes by.

Pam Paugh makes me sick with her interviews, she went in that house and removed things that have never been recovered to this day.

I cannot believe the latest twists in this bizarre case.

K in Texas

hahaha! I can feel your frustration! Welcome to the nightmare, although I can see you've followed the case for a long while. Stick around, it's bound to get better and better. Did you read Jeff Shapiros article on Mary Lacy? I think you'll enjoy it!

 

[coloradokares]

You all are arguing about things outside of the evidence, stick to what we have here. Who cares what Lin Wood has to say or how close Patsy's handwriting matches the letter. I agree. Let's rebute the new evidence. HOW DID IT GET THERE??? ANY THOUGHTS? Oh....no more Asian factory worker theories, not possible now that this is on her long johns as well as her panties unless they were manufactered at the same time in the same plant by the same worker. Think folks!!! Was this someone the Ramsey's knew?

By no means is this complete DNA that alone a DNA Match. This was a few skin cells TOUCH DNA and the lab did not have the possesion of the Long John so who can say where it came from?

 

[Wudge]

And I would say that Cherokee's gathering of the handwriting evidence all in one place for the convenience of people who want to look and judge for themselves, or read the opinions of those who have been deemed experts, does not make Cherokee an "expert" in the context you are using it but it certainly passes the test for "competency." (Why is "competency" a word? I've never thought about it until this moment, but why make a noun out of what's already a noun, i.e. adding -y to competence?) (That wasn't a dig at you, it was a grammar tangent; I'm wont to ramble off on those.)

As regards evidence being competent, I used Cherokee to make the point that while some posters rely heavily on his opinion and work product, it almost assuredly would never be admitted as evidence at trial. Hence, what those posters are relying on as evidence to support their position that Patsy wrote the ransom note would neither be reliable evidence in the eyes of the Court nor best evidence. It would not even be considered at trial.

 

[TexMex]

Lets clarify the long johns never were sent anywhere for further testing THE RESULTS on the skin cells touch test were sent. Now Frankly I am more skeptical than ever before How do you prove everything that ever touched those tights If everything was tested then where are Patsys skin cells as supposedly she dressed JonBenet in those tights?!?!?!?!

denver post:

At the end of last year, her office opted to work with Bode Technology
Group near Washington, D.C., to apply the new technology to the Ramsey case.
The lab scraped both sides of the waist of the long johns JonBenét was wearing over her underwear the night she was killed.

This area was chosen, the release said, because it was assumed that her killer took off JonBenét's clothing and then redressed her and would have handled the long johns.

The lab notified the DA on March 24 that DNA was found on both sides of the waist of the long johns.

That DNA matched the DNA found years ago in JonBenét's underwear.

 

[AliVada]

hahaha! I can feel your frustration! Welcome to the nightmare, although I can see you've followed the case for a long while. Stick around, it's bound to get better and better. Did you read Jeff Shapiros article on Mary Lacy? I think you'll enjoy it!

Where do I find this article (forgive me if I have missed the link)

K

 

[trixie]

Where do I find this article (forgive me if I have missed the link)

K

LoveMama brought us the link on another thread. Here it is. Enjoy!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379981,00.html

 

[azwriter]

I think he wrote the ransom note when he came in after they had left for the party. I think he rifled through their personal stuff and cased the place out.

I do think he had full intentions of kidnapping her but something went terribly wrong. Maybe JB became frightened and he bound her up and hit her with the stun gun to quieten her and then became very angry with her because she wouldn't comply without force. Maybe he realized since the basement window was so high he couldn't heave her up and over it to take her out.

Why would he care if he left the ransom note behind even though he knew he had killed her inside of her home instead? It sure would let them think she wasn't on the grounds but taken away and that would give him more than ample time to get far away from the crime scene.

There is just no generic cookie cutter profile for pedophile murderers. To say he has to be a certain way or wouldn't have done this or that...... is just guesstimating and speculation at best imo.

imo

The problem for a kidnapper in leaving behind a ransom note is that the note becomes another piece of evidence. Another way the kidnapper could be identified.
If you don't want narrow your chances of being caught committing a crime, you get in and out and leave as little evidence behind. Crime 101.

 

[Skigwy]

This is the main reason why I've never believed the Ramseys were guilty. Neither of them fit the profile. Also when a mother kills, she usually wants to do away with ALL the kids, not just one. Think Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, Diane Downes, just to name a few.

They always did seem to forget about Burke.

 

[Skigwy]

As regards evidence being competent, I used Cherokee to make the point that while some posters rely heavily on his opinion and work product, it almost assuredly would never be admitted as evidence at trial. Hence, what those posters are relying on as evidence to support their position that Patsy wrote the ransom note would neither be reliable evidence in the eyes of the Court nor best evidence. It would not even be considered at trial.

It'd be admitted as evidence long before the "4.5 on 1-5 scale" nonsense you rely so heavily on. Hunter made it up. There is no such scale. And then he graded Patsy a 4 (on the non-existent scale). Lin Wood kicked in the .5 .

 

[trixie]

:laugh::laugh:

They always did seem to forget about Burke.

This doesn't translate well without the original quote but I don't know how to do that. Anyway, i thought your reply was very funny!

 

[Wudge]

It'd be admitted as evidence long before the "4.5 on 1-5 scale" nonsense you rely so heavily on. Hunter made it up. There is no such scale. And then he graded Patsy a 4 (on the non-existent scale). Lin Wood kicked in the .5 .

Don't be ridiculous, Cherokee is not an expert. He would would not be permitted to testify.

The truth is that no one can name an expert that was brought into the case by either the BPD or the CBI or the FBI who found Patsy's handwriting to be a match to the ransom note. The reason no such expert can be named is because no expert found Patsy's handwriting to be a match. It's that simple.

As such, her handwriting could not have been admitted as inculpatory evidence against Patsy in a trial, because there could be no reliable testimonial or demonstrative evidence.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The problem for a kidnapper in leaving behind a ransom note is that the note becomes another piece of evidence. Another way the kidnapper could be identified.
If you don't want narrow your chances of being caught committing a crime, you get in and out and leave as little evidence behind. Crime 101.

I think any killer is a high risk taker and certainly think they are smarter than the average bear. He would know that they must have an exemplar of his writing in order for it to ever be tied to him. I feel assured he knew they would not be able to identify who he was, which has proven to be correct for almost 12 years thus far.

Now that his dna has been found again, I hope DA Lacy has other things sent to the lab and tested as well. It is very far fetched for me to believe that if the Ramseys partook in this crime that Patsy would handwrite the note herself and use her own paintbrush in the garrote. By all accounts some have said she was an intelligent woman although I think some of that is based on the ransom note which I believe was never written by her. She nor John would be so dumb to use their own paintbrush or leave the handwritten note when it could have been typed just as easily as if the killer brought it there when he came.

imoo

 

[LI_Mom]

Very funny. Did Patsy have a beaver coat? Or John a jacket with beaver tim and or lining?
Do you think beavers lived in the basement? Entering through the broken window?
Just kidding.

Maybe Lacy should test Jerry Mathers' DNA?

Why not... she can't seem MORE ridiculous than she already does?

 

[LI_Mom]

I think this is bull, I rarely post but agree with Tricia's press release.

Someone tell us about the missing cell records from December of 96 ... correct me if I am wrong but weren't they lost or destroyed on two phones for John and one for Patsy????? Has anyone ever heard of cell records just being gone? They have become a vital tool in so many cases and yet this family who was alerting people that horrible morning seem to have no record of their calls. How conveinant .... do we know who was the carrier for the phones?

Plus the fiber evidence just screams who done it!

Whatever has been wrong in Boulder seems to just get worse as time goes by.

Pam Paugh makes me sick with her interviews, she went in that house and removed things that have never been recovered to this day.

I cannot believe the latest twists in this bizarre case.

K in Texas

I agree.

If the child's own family makes it impossible for LE to solve their daughter's murder.... something's rotten to the core with THEM and all their high-powered lawyers who should have known what the consequences would be for not being fully transparent from day one.

And I blame the lawyers for knowingly obstructing justice... since they CLAIM these parents were innocent all along. If the Ramseys should have sued anyone... it's their cruddy/slimey lawyers.

 

[Skigwy]

Don't be ridiculous, Cherokee is not an expert. He would would not be permitted to testify.

The truth is that no one can name an expert that was brought into the case by either the BPD or the CBI or the FBI who found Patsy's handwriting to be a match to the ransom note. The reason no such expert can be named is because no expert found Patsy's handwriting to be a match. It's that simple.

As such, her handwriting could not have been admitted as inculpatory evidence against Patsy in a trial, because there could be no reliable testimonial or demonstrative evidence.

Don't be confused. I wasn't arguing the admissibility of Cherokee's analysis, I was pointing out the absurdity of relying on the 4.5 crock when attempting to make any point regarding Patsy's handwriting.