The Ramseys are Cleared

[Greywing]

Ummm, then why didn't they have Linda Arndt search the basement to be sure? :waitasecatsy used the basement to paint, and they had Christmas presents and a wine cellar down there. This was not an unused basement. I'd want my whole house searched immediately if my daughter was missing. Instead, when John did go and "find" JB's body hours later, he didn't call up to Linda A., he brought up the body himself to contaminate the evidence, and Patsy further contaminated it when she threw herself on JB's body. Coincidence? I think not.:waitasec:

And don't forget Johns X-ray vision. The decision is made to search the house one more time, John heads right down the stairs and "sees" Jon Benet in a pitch black room. :waitasec:

 

[reefshadow]

"JB's hymen wasn't torn and stretched. It was almost completely worn away."

A 1x1 cm hymenal orifice with the hymen itself represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions is hardly by any stretch of the imagination "worn away."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

beep -wrong.


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/cyril_wecht/6.html

Is this the actual autopsy report?

imoo

 

[BBB167893]

Maybe dressed the way her stalker wanted her to look? He had time to pick out an outfit for her while he waited.

Tex, isn't grasping at straws just a tad?

What benefit would it be for the Ramseys to doll her up? More benefit to them if she's found naked, IMO.

How is it more benefit to them if she's found naked? But you seem to think that there NEEDED to be a benefit. I'm not sure there had to be, that it was just Patsy's overly theatrical nature.

Actually, if you would read my post, you'd know what benefit there is: SYMPATHY! That's not just my opinion. Michael Kane said that one of the reasons he suspected Patsy was because the staging was so overdone. He said, quote: "It was a very theatrical production and Patsy's a very theatrical person. She loves being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen."

And that got me to thinking: Patsy put so much effort and time and money into making JB spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Follow me on this: a regular, run-of-the-mill, garden-variety domestic killing? That wouldn't do. But a child beauty queen murdered in her own home by the ultimate boogeyman, the pedophile killer, under her parents' noses? How cool is that! Patsy gets to be the ultimate victim! And those "nasty, fascist cops" mean she gets to be a victim twice-over!

That's what I'm trying to say.

 

[philamena]

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/First Floor

Breakfast Room

Items on Breakfast Room Table

• Bowl of Pineapple.

1. Bowl of Pineapple with Serving Spoon. A bowl of pineapple with large silver serving spoon was found on a table in the "breakfast room" (which typically was used for dinner rather than breakfast).
2. Pineapple in JBR Stomach. This was potentially significant since pineapple was found in JBR's small intestine. See The Pineapple Evidence for further discussion.
3. Fingerprints on Bowl. The bowl was later determined to have fingerprints matching both Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey (according to Internet poster Evening2, this fact was reported in Schiller's 2006 documentary). Internet poster Jameson says she spent a lot of time with investigators and never heard even a hint that anyone else's fingerprints besides Patsy's and Burke's had been found on the bowl.
4. Source of Bowl. Burke reported in police interviews that he recognized the bowl (Thomas 2000:317).
5. Who Brought Pineapple? In interviews with Patsy Ramsey in 1998, Tom Haney asserted that BPD had queried the victim's advocates about the pineapple. While he did not indicate their response, it is reasonable to assume that BPD would not have questioned Ramseys so intensively about the pineapple if they knew that it had been brought by the advocates.

• Glass of Tea. There also was a glass of tea on the same table at the seat normally occupied by Burke. This glass was later determined to have fingerprints matching Burke Ramsey (according to Internet poster Evening2, this fact was reported in Schiller's 2006 documentary).
• According to Internet poster Evening2, "Burke helped Patsy empty the dishwasher as part of their family time," so the fact that fingerprints were found on these items is not necessarily suspicious. But what's puzzling is that according to Evening2, "both Patsy and John said the table was CLEARED before they went to the Whites." However, Internet poster Jameson notes that Ramseys "cleaned up after breakfast. Never acually heard the table was cleared off totally. And I never heard anything about the state of the table when the Ramseys left for the Whites. There were a few hours there during which Burke and others could have put things on the table."
• Kleenex. There also was some kleenex on the table.

 

[Spazkat9696]

I just can't wrap my brain around a parent murdering their child in such a violent way with the fractured skull, garrote, etc. And then cleaning the body afterward and redressing her. If it had been in a fit of rage and accidental, I just can't picture a parent sticking around the body like that. She/they would want to erase the picture of their dead daughter from their eyes as soon as possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. They just don't fit the profile of parents who kill their child/children.

I can. If a parent kills a child they would not want anyone to see them like that. Plus in a not inertly all there state they may think they can undo what they did if they get rid of the evidence. Think about it. If you hurt someone you care about you don't just walk away. You try and make it better.

 

[angelwngs]

I'm not sure that I understand why it's not possible for JonBenet to have put the larger underwear on herself that morning and was never really even redressed. Patsy doesn't seem like she was the type to pay much attention to household things such as bowls, spoons, and opened packages.

Read acandyrose interview with Patsy and what she said she did after John brought JBR in asleep to put her to bed...

 

[angelwngs]

sorry, MrsMush. Never let them see you bleed, and all that.



Are you kidding? The garrote was integral to the scene. It HAD to be there.

Henry Lee thinks the tape might have been a used piece. Possibly from the back of JB's My Twinn doll, but don't hold me to that just yet.

So did the tape... that JR tore off her mouth and threw to the floor when he found her... It still had to be found or the 'scene' of a kidnapping victim would not be complete...

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah it could have fed his twisted lust just having them loosely binding the wrists. I see a lot of fantasizing in this murder done by the killer. She was his at will to do whatever he wanted to do. I do think he may have relished in the idea hoping that John and Patsy found their daughter this way.

Please. The whole point of tying someone up is so they can't get loose.

Did they prove that it was previously used tape inside that home? Used where? Do you have a link where the forensic techs tested it? Thanks in advance.

There's a quote from henry Lee floating around.

Were JonBenet's fingerprints found on the bowl or just Patsy's and Burke's? What about on the spoon?

Just Patsy and Burke's.

If it was the Ramsey, why? The duct tape was also part of the scene, right?

You don't get what I mean. The duct tape ON HER FACE is part of it, sure. But having the roll found on you? That could look pretty bad!

A 1x1 cm hymenal orifice with the hymen itself represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions is hardly by any stretch of the imagination "worn away."

Try again, reefshadow:

"According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet"
Specific Evidence of Prior Abuse. "There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim. A generalized increase in redness of the tissues of the vestibule was apparent, and small red flecks of blood were visible around the perineum and the external surface of the genitalia"

 

[TexMex]

Tex, isn't grasping at straws just a tad?

Well, I am getting buzzed after two Jack and Cokes....a few straws wouldn't hurt...drink faster that way!

But Dave...I do not think a parent who just killed their kid thinks about theatrical stuff like that. I do hear what you are saying. I guess while I strongly disagree with dressing little girls up like miniature women with make up and all...I don't think it makes her evil. She was raised that way and thought pagents were fun things to do as mother and daughter. One of my sister in laws does this with our neice, I HATE it but don't consider her sinister, just misguided.

 

[angelwngs]

I understand that post-mortem voiding is common, but the volume that appears to have been found on her clothing would be inconsistent with a bad bedwetting hours before. I hardly think Patsy would kill her for a small incident.

UTI's and yeast infections are common in pediatric practice, and shouldn't in and of themselves be indications of sexual abuse.

Google image search or search here crime scene photograph of empty iced tea glass on kitchen table.

 

[TexMex]

Is this the actual autopsy report?

imoo

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/autopsy.html



The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.

 

[angelwngs]

Is this the actual autopsy report?

imoo

It is at acandyrose

Page 7 paragraph one states about the stomach contents....
http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet07.gif

 

[MrsMush99]

I tried googling for the pic of the ice tea glass and I'm coming up empty.

 

[angelwngs]

I tried googling for the pic of the ice tea glass and I'm coming up empty.

Crime scene photographs...On the kitchen table there was an iced tea glass... a large one and a box of kleenex..

I'll have to look for it and send it to you later.

There was one posted here years ago and a whole thread about it. (The mods may have deleted some of the photographs here during the after the big crash... Idunno..

I think that there is also a photo of it at acandyrose in the crime scene photograph section...

 

[BBB167893]

, I am getting buzzed after two Jack and Cokes....a few straws wouldn't hurt...drink faster that way!

LOL! Nothing wrong with a sense of humor!

But Dave...I do not think a parent who just killed their kid thinks about theatrical stuff like that.

First of all, Tex, this wasn't "a parent who just killed their kid." This was PATSY RAMSEY, the mother of all mothers! If that's not enough of an illustration for you, I'll elaborate in a minute.

And I don't think she WAS thinking. That's just it. I think it was her instinct, without conscious thought, for the most part. That's what I mean.

I do hear what you are saying

No, I don't think you do. But maybe this will clear it up. This is what I wrote a few days ago:

Does anyone remember that picture of JB done up like Marilyn Monroe, complete with the name badge? I do. Now, let's walk this through: what do JB and MM have in common? Well, they were both known for their good looks, and they both died tragically. THUS, my realization.

I have no doubt that it was Patsy who thought that little performance up. Who better to associate your beauty queen daughter with than the most famous blonde of all time? But, what most people overlook is this: one of the big reasons why Marilyn's legend is so strong is because she died tragically. Marilyn died young and at the peak of her fame, her beauty undiminished. She was not allowed to grow old and obscure. (Case in point: Elizabeth Taylor. I love Liz, always will. But I can't help but wonder ['cause I'm weird that way] what it would have been like if she had died fairly young, before all of her health problems and failed marriages relegated her to the pages of supermarket rags. Say, now that I think of it, Patsy kind of resembled Liz, didn't she? Dark-haired, great-looking in her day, health problems, getting older...hmm. This is like a bad Twilight Zone episode!)

Well, what happened to Marilyn happened to JB, and I can't help but wonder if for the same reason. Remember when I gave that spiel about how a person can achieve greater fame dead than alive (ex: "Che" Guevara) [Ask me later?] I don't necessarily mean that JB's death was premeditated (although, there may be those who do). I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JB. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 12 years and people STILL remember her! But a child beauty queen murdered by a revenge-driven pedophile terrorist in her palazzo home right under the noses of her wealthy parents? How cool is that!

I admit, I'm just spitballing, but in good faith, based on the opinions of people like Mike Kane, who said Patsy loved being famous as the mother of a dead beauty queen, and Patsy's own behavior, namely putting such a profound, almost obsessive investment in her daughter and likening her to beautiful blondes who died tragically, such as Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana. (Remember how Patsy couldn't WAIT to comment on Diana's passing in regard to JB? So do I.)

Read it, please.

I guess while I strongly disagree with dressing little girls up like miniature women with make up and all...I don't think it makes her evil.

You misunderstand, Tex. I'm not saying it made her evil, or even wrong. I'm saying that it was her way. It's what she knew.

You know, this is kind of a cruel irony. For years, people tell me, "show me something in their past that makes you think they could do this."

THAT"S WHAT I'M DOING! And for what? So my theories can be turned into cheap amusement? I put a lot of work into this place. I'd hate to think I wasted it.

 

[TexMex]

I tried googling for the pic of the ice tea glass and I'm coming up empty.

Here ya go mushy



http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/First+Floor#Kitchen


Glass of Tea. There also was a glass of tea on the same table at the seat normally occupied by Burke. This glass was later determined to have fingerprints matching Burke Ramsey (according to Internet poster Evening2, this fact was reported in Schiller's 2006 documentary).

 

[robotdog]

seems to me a kidnapper would put a "ramsom note" on the kitchen counter
- on the floor by the bottom of the steps seems kind of kooky


oh yea, umm why bother leaving a ramson note at all

if the child was killed and put in the basement by the "INTRUDER" what purpose does the note serve other than to reflect the killing onto someone
other than the parents - which would indicate that it was the parents who wrote the note


made up- pack of lies- scam alert - warning - full bucket of bullcrap about an intruder

im not posting MY OPINION in my posts because who else's opinion would this be other than my own - i wrote it :crazy:

 

[BBB167893]

I apologize in advance for my loss of temper. It's nobody's fault. I'm just burned out after 10+ years.

 

[angelwngs]

Snip~

You misunderstand, Tex. I'm not saying it made her evil, or even wrong. I'm saying that it was her way. It's what she knew.

You know, this is kind of a cruel irony. For years, people tell me, "show me something in their past that makes you think they could do this."

THAT"S WHAT I'M DOING! And for what? So my theories can be turned into cheap amusement? I put a lot of work into this place. I'd hate to think I wasted it.

SD, I snipped your quote above, but not before I read every word of it; the older post your reposted in this quote, I read again- and I agree 100,000% Your repost was dead on! :clap:

Now, on to the part of this post I have no choice but to bold and reply to:

YOU Nut! "Cheap amusement"???? "Wasted it...????!!!

YOU ARE OUR HERO... Our Super Hero...(caps for emphasis not yelling)

(and to think you are under 30... Dear Lord, why didn't you gift me with as much logic, intelligence, memory files and good old common sense as you did our dear SuperDave???) :clap::clap::clap:

Now, please don't ever post here again about such nonsense... ok?