The ransom: intended to match JR's bonus?

[BBB167893]

We only needed to cross three bridges to get to mental torture:

1. An intruder did it.
2. The ransom note amount was rhetorical. There was never any intention on the part of the intruder to collect money. JBR could've been moved dead or alive and used to collect the ransom.
3. The ransom note demands were sincerely coercive. A sincere attempt by an intruder to coerce JR into getting money, not calling police, and waiting by the phone. They seemed pretty sincere.

Now that we're talking about mental torture or psychological torment or whatever, it could be used to explain other crime scene phenomenon. Like a wildcard.

What's the old saying? Turnabout is fair play.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

What's the old saying? Turnabout is fair play.

Right. The wildcard explaining all pheomenon is mental torment.

It seems like in this IDI scenario, the intruder staged a kidnap for ransom scenario designed for JR's consumption. Things were different in the basement though. Pineapple and sexual assault suggests the intruder may have staged some other scenario designed for JBR's consumption. See what I mean?

 

[BBB167893]

Right. The wildcard explaining all pheomenon is mental torment.

Okay. I just hope you're prepared for the same criticism you dish out.

It seems like in this IDI scenario, the intruder staged a kidnap for ransom scenario designed for JR's consumption. Things were different in the basement though. Pineapple and sexual assault suggests the intruder may have staged some other scenario designed for JBR's consumption. See what I mean?

Yeah, kinda.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Okay. I just hope you're prepared for the same criticism you dish out.

You've forgotton I'm IDI in a RDI world up until recently.

Yeah, kinda.

Do we factually know that JBR was penetrated with a paintbrush or is that just RDI hype? Where was it reported. I don't remember reading that on the autopsy.

 

[BBB167893]

You've forgotten I'm IDI in a RDI world up until recently.

I've forgotten nothing. I just hope you'll finally realize that without "wildcard" explanations, many crimes wouldn't get solved.

Do we factually know that JBR was penetrated with a paintbrush or is that just RDI hype? Where was it reported. I don't remember reading that on the autopsy.

Well, we know she was penetrated by something. Possibilities are finger or the paintbrush. What pushes things in the direction of the paintbrush is that there was a splinter of wood found inside her vagina and that Dr. McCann stated that whatever penetrated her was very likely pointed and firmer than a finger.

If I may ask (and I AM just asking):

1) Why do you ask?

2) Why do you phrase it that way (i.e. "RDI hype")?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I've forgotten nothing.



Well, we know she was penetrated by something. Possibilities are finger or the paintbrush. What pushes things in the direction of the paintbrush is that there was a splinter of wood found inside her vagina and that Dr. McCann stated that whatever penetrated her was very likely pointed and firmer than a finger.

A third party MD who never physically attended JBR is clairvoyant? Is this the closest thing to expert opinion she was penetrated by paintbrush?

If I may ask (and I AM just asking):

1) Why do you ask?

Because if she was injured by paintbrush, thats really way out there nuts. Easily compared with beheading a six year old, though, as far as shocking violence is concerned. What you're describing is the use of shocking violence, which can be a method of mental torture.

2) Why do you phrase it that way (i.e. "RDI hype")?

Many RDI repeat over and over how JBR was assaulted with the paintbrush, stating it in graphic detail and stating it as if it were established fact. Its not so established, is it?

 

[BBB167893]

A third party MD who never physically attended JBR is clairvoyant? Is this the closest thing to expert opinion she was penetrated by paintbrush?

Whoa, back the trolley up here a bit, partner. Clairvoyance had nothing to do with it. And it wasn't just him. It's been established that there was a splinter of wood from the paintbrush inside her. Now, whether that came from the brush directly or was transferred by digital manipulation is up for debate. But, McCann said that the well-demarcated edges of the injury would suggest that it was a hard, pointed object.

So, until I find more, that's what I can give you.

Because if she was injured by paintbrush, thats really way out there nuts. Easily compared with beheading a six year old, though, as far as shocking violence is concerned. What you're describing is the use of shocking violence, which can be a method of mental torture.

I can honestly see that. BUT, you can go the other way, too. By that I mean two things:

1) Like so many other angles of this, at first blush it certainly SOUNDS shocking and conjures up images of horrible damage. Until you realize that there wasn't that much damage done, according to the autopsy report. Which suggests to me that whoever did it was conflicted to say the least and took a single blind shot.

2) I once explained to someone else how using the paintbrush would allow someone to injure JB without actually touching her. Seems to be a pattern there.

Many RDI repeat over and over how JBR was assaulted with the paintbrush, stating it in graphic detail and stating it as if it were established fact. Its not so established, is it?

The way you tell it, you'd think we enjoy talking about it!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Whoa, back the trolley up here a bit, partner. Clairvoyance had nothing to do with it. And it wasn't just him. It's been established that there was a splinter of wood from the paintbrush inside her. Now, whether that came from the brush directly or was transferred by digital manipulation is up for debate. But, McCann said that the well-demarcated edges of the injury would suggest that it was a hard, pointed object.

So, until I find more, that's what I can give you.

OK injury and blood. Not exactly fitting a kidnap for ransom is it?


I can honestly see that. BUT, you can go the other way, too. By that I mean two things:

1) Like so many other angles of this, at first blush it certainly SOUNDS shocking and conjures up images of horrible damage. Until you realize that there wasn't that much damage done, according to the autopsy report. Which suggests to me that whoever did it was conflicted to say the least and took a single blind shot.

I think you misunderstand. We're not discussing damage done. We're discussing mental torture or psychological torment thru the use of shocking acts of violence as perceived by JR and JBR at the time. See what I mean?

2) I once explained to someone else how using the paintbrush would allow someone to injure JB without actually touching her. Seems to be a pattern there.

RDI thinks the injury was to coverup prior abuse. Do we have an opinion on this injury sustained while she was alive? IMO if it sustained while alive it would be shockingly violent from JBR's perspective, don't you agree?

The way you tell it, you'd think we enjoy talking about it!

I don't remember reading any IDI posts that emphasize the paintbrush assault to JBR to cover up evidence of chronic abuse. According to RDI chronic abuse wasn't covered up anyway.

 

[Roy23]

I don't remember reading any IDI posts that emphasize the paintbrush assault to JBR to cover up evidence of chronic abuse. According to RDI chronic abuse wasn't covered up anyway.

Holdon,

If I was pitcher and you were a batter, I would intenionally walk you every time up. Another homerun, night after night.

 

[BBB167893]

OK injury and blood. Not exactly fitting a kidnap for ransom is it?

No, it doesn't. Thus the problem, from my perspective.

I think you misunderstand. We're not discussing damage done. We're discussing mental torture or psychological torment thru the use of shocking acts of violence as perceived by JR and JBR at the time. See what I mean?

Yes. I understand perfectly. But for my money, that's a sword that cuts two ways.

RDI thinks the injury was to coverup prior abuse.

That's one of several RDI reasons. It just happens to be the one I subscribe to.

Do we have an opinion on this injury sustained while she was alive? IMO if it sustained while alive it would be shockingly violent from JBR's perspective, don't you agree?

Okay, firstly, it's pretty much agreed that she was alive (however technically) when the injury was sustained, but was likely already incapacitated. Secondly, from JBR's perspective, I guess it would depend on how aware of it she was. But I get what you mean.

I don't remember reading any IDI posts that emphasize the paintbrush assault to JBR to cover up evidence of chronic abuse.

I've noticed. But that still doesn't explain how we're supposed to enjoy talking about it. Quite the reverse, would be my guess. Speaking purely for myself, I don't like talking about it. Quite frankly, it makes me sick. I do it because I think it's vitally important.

According to RDI chronic abuse wasn't covered up anyway.

Not for lack of trying. Don't get the issues confused, HOTYH.

 

[BBB167893]

Holdon,

If I was pitcher and you were a batter, I would intenionally walk you every time up. Another homerun, night after night.

Oh, the things I could do with that...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon,

If I was pitcher and you were a batter, I would intenionally walk you every time up. Another homerun, night after night.

Its not always home runs. Dont let the deafening roar of the crowd fool you. Sometimes its the same old RDI pickle.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

No, it doesn't. Thus the problem, from my perspective.



Yes. I understand perfectly. But for my money, that's a sword that cuts two ways.



That's one of several RDI reasons. It just happens to be the one I subscribe to.



Okay, firstly, it's pretty much agreed that she was alive (however technically) when the injury was sustained, but was likely already incapacitated. Secondly, from JBR's perspective, I guess it would depend on how aware of it she was. But I get what you mean.

OK she was alive. How do we know she was alive? Hemorrhaging? How do we know she was 'likely' incapacitated?


I've noticed. But that still doesn't explain how we're supposed to enjoy talking about it. Quite the reverse, would be my guess. Speaking purely for myself, I don't like talking about it. Quite frankly, it makes me sick. I do it because I think it's vitally important.

You're the one who used the word 'enjoy' not me. I only noted that paintbrush assault is referred to freely and openly as a fact, but really it is only a claim.

Not for lack of trying. Don't get the issues confused, HOTYH.

The issue for this IDI, right now, is to know what evidence we're using to A: conclude that she was alive when sexually assaulted, and B: conclude she was too incapacitated to be shocked.

 

[BBB167893]

You're the one who used the word 'enjoy' not me. I only noted that paintbrush assault is referred to freely and openly as a fact, but really it is only a claim.

All right. I can go back into my corner when I need to.

The issue for this IDI, right now, is to know what evidence we're using to A: conclude that she was alive when sexually assaulted, and B: conclude she was too incapacitated to be shocked.

Okay, then.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Hotyh.

so ... how do we even know that she was not sexually assauted with more than one object that night?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh.

so ... how do we even know that she was not sexually assauted with more than one object that night?

The question for me was whether or not JBR was conscious for the sexual assault. If she was, then it would be shockingly violent and superfluous to 'covering up prior abuse'. Beheading a six year old is a shockingly violent concept also.

The idea is that the perp was in to shocking violence.

 

[Ravyn]

But my problem here is that JonBenet was wiped down,redress,and covered up almost like somewhat like asleep...If the prep was into shocking violence I can't see where this would matter...Cause with how she was found minus the garrote it don't look that shocking...Now with the garrote it does I'm just trying to say if the garrote wasn't in this picture would it look that shocking...And minus the RN

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh.

so ... how do we even know that she was not sexually assauted with more than one object that night?

We really don't.

What we know are the injuries. We really don't know anything about the context in which she received them.

RDI claims are very specific but really they don't factually know anything either.

There was probably an hour of access, at least. During which time there are numerous possibilities.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But my problem here is that JonBenet was wiped down,redress,and covered up almost like somewhat like asleep...If the prep was into shocking violence I can't see where this would matter...Cause with how she was found minus the garrote it don't look that shocking...Now with the garrote it does I'm just trying to say if the garrote wasn't in this picture would it look that shocking...And minus the RN

Its not how shocking it is to you or me or whomever found JBR. Its how shocking it was to JBR at the time.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Evidence suggests that the killer may have been using shocking violence on both JBR and JR in different contexts.For JR the context was kidnap for ransom - JR to not call police, worry about JBR's beheading, collect money, wait for a phone call, only to have his hopes dashed when decomposition odor came from the basement. For JBR the context was tricked (as I was) into thinking that she was going to be a prisoner (garrote, 2nd ligature, tape) but taken care of (pineapple, redressing, blanket, teddy bear maybe?), and instead JBR witnesses her own sexual assault with injury, her own strangulation, or her own bludgeoning. Judging from other serial killings, this could even be an understatement. It is certainly the other side of the coin from RDI's 'wrapped lovingly' idea. RDI magically believes JBR was not a witness to any of her own injuries, with zero facts to support the belief.