The Shoe Lace Bindings

[Justiceseeker35]

There are obviously different ways to hog tie. The perp only had six shoelaces at his disposal, or wanted it to look like this. If he used the method as described above, he would have needed at least three shoelaces per victim. Tying the four limbs of a hog with one rope is probably easier than tying the four limbs of a human together, behind their backs, with a rope, let alone a shoelace. With the six laces, the most obvious way would have been to tie ankles together, and wrists together. A "normal" person would not use a specialised method of binding for the first time in a situation like this, so I would think this person had special knowledge of what he was doing, or he tied "automatically" in this way without thinking, which also suggests it was not special for him.

I agree with Graznik, and the profilers opinions that this was not a crime with the motivation of sexual gratification. These boys were primarily beaten to death, an underlying sexual element could be involved. If the mutilation of the genitals was not post-mortem animal predation, this could be interpreted as the retrieval of sexual domination. The evidence does not point to a sexually motivated crime. What's more, the battering of the boys points to a strong personal relationship.

Battering = Hate
Hate = Relationship

IMO, all signs point to the re-establishment of control through violence, often seen in the crimes against children in this age group.

From the SelectedWorks of Edson Kieu
January 2014
Crime Profiling Report: Examining Child Homicide

http://works.bepress.com/edsonkieu/














Judging the statements made in this case, this description fits perfectly IMO.

I can't help but think these knots are important. They are a clean snapshot into the mind of a person who is in the process post crime of disposing of their evidence. The fact that the person used different knots means not only does the person have knowledge of knots but also can situationally vary the knot based of what the victim is doing. I really don't know a thing about knots but for me a lay person I tie all knots the same way. If i was to tie a package up to dispose of something (not a person) i don't have enough knot knowledge to vary knots. But i do believe the person who did this varied the knots based on how much they expected the victim to struggle or attempt to escape or if the person was presumed dead or near death.

 

[Userid]

IMO, there was nothing sexual about this crime and AFAIK there's no evidence of it either. I can understand why people would think there was, but there's simply no evidence in support of it.

If the perp was binding them for restraint only, then surely the perp could've just tied them wrist to wrist/ankle to ankle? Sure, they could've stood up straight, but moving would've been difficult. There a video floating about somewhere of a supporter who demonstrates that a) the victims would've been able to move, and b) could've been carried.

Personally, I tend to lean towards the theory that the bindings were for transportation. Furthermore, I think the drowning was so called "dry drowning" caused by blunt force trauma.

Just putting my two cents out there.

Well, if you are stictly abiding by the notion that there was no anal evidence of rape, then yes -- there's no sexual component. If you're not (like me), here's what make it sexual:

They're naked and bound.

One victim has horrific wounds to his genital area.

I know you probably think this was caused by animals, but in my view, it is without question that the markings I have seen (on the upper inner thighs) not only were caused by a man-made object, but where caused by the same instrument that was used to inflict the left-cheek deep gashes/injuries on SB's face. It was some sort of pointed object with a sharp blade, and the similarities between the two injuries are striking. These images are not easy to look at and I wouldn't necessarily suggest you or anyone does so, but after viewing them personally, I am convinced -- and I find that, the majority of people who believe animal predation caused the genital wound of CB, have never seen either photograph.

Also, none of these knots could have held up while transporting the victims anywhere; particularly the 2-half-hitches on each (4) knot of CB. In addition, the limbs being tied in this fashion would have made transportation from any area that much more harder. All the onus would have been on the killer's forearms to support 2 victims at a time, and he would have bent his arms at the elbow just to be able to keep them from dragging off the ground. Couple that with the relatively long slack of the bindings, and the killer would have had to have been the size of big foot to keep the bodies from dragging along the ground. There would literally be zero advantage to tying them for transport: he still could only take two at a time, and simply slumping them over his shoulder would have been exponentially easier. Not to mention, transporting 3 naked bodies anywhere from one public spot to another doesn't make sense to me. If the killer had the time to leave the bodies unattended, he had the time to pick up large trash bags or something to at least somewhat conceal the bodies during transportation, unless the manhole (or whatever) was immediately next to the dump site -- but again, there would be zero use to even tie them up this way and take the time to do so, if he was already that close to the dump site.

 

[Userid]

I can't help but think these knots are important. They are a clean snapshot into the mind of a person who is in the process post crime of disposing of their evidence. The fact that the person used different knots means not only does the person have knowledge of knots but also can situationally vary the knot based of what the victim is doing. I really don't know a thing about knots but for me a lay person I tie all knots the same way. If i was to tie a package up to dispose of something (not a person) i don't have enough knot knowledge to vary knots. But i do believe the person who did this varied the knots based on how much they expected the victim to struggle or attempt to escape or if the person was presumed dead or near death.

Completely agree. This is evidenced by the abrasions around the laces themselves. CB's abrasions aren't as pronounced as the other two, because he had already died or was close to death (he is the only victim to die strictly by blunt force trauma). The other two have deeper and darker abrasions; hence, they have more sophisticated knots, because they were alive when they were affixed and were most likely struggling while they were applied (unlike CB).

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Completely agree. This is evidenced by the abrasions around the laces themselves. CB's abrasions aren't as pronounced as the other two, because he had already died or was close to death (he is the only victim to die strictly by blunt force trauma). The other two have deeper and darker abrasions; hence, they have more sophisticated knots, because they were alive when they were affixed and were most likely struggling while they were applied (unlike CB).

Ok so this brings me full circle back to the slaughterhouse expertise. Someone who has "hog tied" animals would not necessarily bind them just post mortem for transport. An expert would know how to tie many different types of animals and also how to bind them depending on the situation and how they would be slaughtered. A person like that would know from experience how to vary knots for lots of factors and one of those factors would be the animal fleeing. Is is possible the children were tied to buy himself time to determine his next step? I honestly don't believe it was a premeditated murder. I do think that looking down at three kids beaten terribly with horrible head wounds there was a point of no return.

 

[Userid]

You lost me at "slaughterhouse experience." (j/k).

I suppose a butcher could know these knots, but so can a cub-scout, cub-scout leader, rock climber, army veteran, fisherman, woodsman, sailor, or any other land/sea-based maritime career individual (rigger, construction worker, etc.).

Here is a good site for knots: http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/

Also, another professional that would have knowledge of knots: truckers. The fact the boys were found next to a 24-hour truck stop and truck wash proves this fact all the more illuminating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucker's_hitch

 

[Justiceseeker35]

You lost me at "slaughterhouse experience." (j/k).

I suppose a butcher could know these knots, but so can a cub-scout, cub-scout leader, rock climber, army veteran, fisherman, woodsman, sailor, or any other land/sea-based maritime career individual (rigger, construction worker, etc.).

Here is a good site for knots: http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/

Also, another professional that would have knowledge of knots: truckers. The fact the boys were found next to a 24-hour truck stop and truck wash proves this fact all the more illuminating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucker's_hitch

Ok so the most secure knots three and four half hitches were used to tie the MM and SB on the right side of their bodies. The figure 8 knot was on the right wrist of SB. Was that not the strongest knot?? If I'm thinking correctly then these boys were still trying to fight a little bit and to remove the ability to use their dominant sides right arms and right legs (just thinking right handed here) the strongest knots would be used. CB's knots were all only double half hitches on all knots so that falls in line with he was the most incapacitated.

This all goes back to who? Who knows the kids well enough to know their dominant hands? Who knows knots well enough to adjust based on how the kids were able bodied or not? Who knows how to tie victims like that? Who has enough personal cause against SB to give him the strongest knot on his right wrist so he can't fight?

 

[Userid]

Dominant hands make sense. Then again, it could be whichever limb of the children the killer happened to grab first, or even last (i.e. SB's wrist). The figure eight was the most "complex" knot, with the square knot(s) on MM being second, and the half-hitches third.

Figure eight: SB's right wrist.
Square knot(s): MM's left wrist and left ankle.

I'm pretty sure MM was a lefty -- could have sworn I heard that somewhere. Anyone?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Dominant hands make sense. Then again, it could be whichever limb of the children the killer happened to grab first, or even last (i.e. SB's wrist). The figure eight was the most "complex" knot, with the square knot(s) on MM being second, and the half-hitches third.

Figure eight: SB's right wrist.
Square knot(s): MM's left wrist and left ankle.

I'm pretty sure MM was a lefty -- could have sworn I heard that somewhere. Anyone?

I'm actually shocked that the investigators didn't pick up that the different kinds of knots were situational. Especially to render the victims dominant sides useless. Instead they chose to use it as multiple knots shows multiple attackers...
That's pretty damning if MM was left handed and the perp knew it and knew SB was right handed. TW3 didn't know the victims.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I still believe that the bodies weren't tied until they were dead or unconscious. So, the knots wouldn't be for restraint, merely for transportation. If the bodies were transported a short distance (as I believe - probably less than 100 yards), I think that even the two half-hitches would have held. Remember, the boys only weighed about 60 pounds apiece. As for the nudity being an indication of a sexual element, here, again, I disagree. I believe that the killer returned to dress his stepson in clothing identified by the mother (not the shorts seen by at least one observer) and, when he was unable to redress the unconscious or dead body, he stripped the other two so that one (his own stepson) wouldn't stand out. Again, JMO.



ETA: I also agree that the important element of the binding was not the types of knots used but the manner in which they were bound. Although not a "true" hogtie, it is very similar and, IMO, indicative of someone with experience tying "dead weight" for transport. Some time back, I saw pictures of hogs being tied for transport. It was eerily similar to the manner in which the bodies were tied - same side front leg to back leg. Unfortunately, I lost that particular picture in a computer crash and can't find it again!