The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

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Hurricane is right. No one is going to solve this case pressing other people on the internet for information. It takes some trips to the library and some phone calls and things like that.

It took me a month to track down names of the all the potential waterbed delivery guys. And half the names were hard to find information on because the names were too common or they moved away. Things like this are what you need to do to advance on this case but sometimes they lead nowhere and you have to go back to the drawing board. The forums are a good "drawing board" but they should be more like "spring boards" to your next investigation. And then share what you've found (I suggest privately first in case the information could lead to danger).

Speculation is 100% a waste of time. Only facts are to be dealt with. And names should only be brought up if there's a very good possibility they were at or around the home that night. If you speculate at all, it should be only to be the reason you're about to embark on your own personal investigation into someone or some thing. Or divide and conquer with other people on the forums, there's another suggestion. Do what the cops do, work from the center of the crime and outward and add up all the tips you know of and find true links, not fabricated stories like "Can't Say" does. Check alibis. Cross reference. All that stuff. Criminal investigating isn't rocket science either. Just takes some strong logical thinking and a little bit of psychology skills.

If you've done a lot of hard work and uncovered a lot of information, then you deserve a lot of credit. I don't expect that you owe me or anyone 'your information'. It would not be right for me to ask you for 'your information'. You worked hard for it and it's yours.

If you find that this discussion is a waste of your time, then don't waste your time with it. If you have information that you know is correct and we are discussing something that is incorrect, then it's up to you if you want to share or not. Most, if not everyone, who comes to this forum is interested in solving this case. How each of us chooses to approach it is a personal decision.
 
If you've done a lot of hard work and uncovered a lot of information, then you deserve a lot of credit. I don't expect that you owe me or anyone 'your information'. It would not be right for me to ask you for 'your information'. You worked hard for it and it's yours.

If you find that this discussion is a waste of your time, then don't waste your time with it. If you have information that you know is correct and we are discussing something that is incorrect, then it's up to you if you want to share or not. Most, if not everyone, who comes to this forum is interested in solving this case. How each of us chooses to approach it is a personal decision.
Monkey I understand and agree with most of what you said, just kind of offering suggestions here on actually moving forward rather than repeating ourselves. Same goes for you Auramyst. I can tell that you guys do your due diligence. And my post wasn't a personal attack. Just something I thought should be said and mainly just echoing what Hurricane was already saying.

Feel free to share anything you find as will I if you feel/I feel.

I have good reason to believe that Garrison did this crime or was around this crime. He's my top suspect until I feel like I've exhausted every possible suspect. I have a list of about 4 or 5 that have caught my eye. They aren't the big names like the GJ3 (other than Garrison) or Cox either.
 
Monkey I understand and agree with most of what you said, just kind of offering suggestions here on actually moving forward rather than repeating ourselves. Same goes for you Auramyst. I can tell that you guys do your due diligence. And my post wasn't a personal attack. Just something I thought should be said and mainly just echoing what Hurricane was already saying.

Feel free to share anything you find as will I if you feel/I feel.

I have good reason to believe that Garrison did this crime or was around this crime. He's my top suspect until I feel like I've exhausted every possible suspect. I have a list of about 4 or 5 that have caught my eye. They aren't the big names like the GJ3 (other than Garrison) or Cox either.

Thank you for your kind words :) There are several on this board who I believe do their 'due diligence' (perfect wording- thank you!). You are one of them also.

Thank you for sharing your expertise with us! :)
 
Some time back a lot of hubbub was made about Garrison having lived in the Oak Crest Trailer Park and the "proof" offered was his drivers license which was never posted or shown online. He only had one license during the time he was out of prison and I guess those offering this proof didn't think anyone else had a copy. The license listed a rual route number (don't remember without looking but it may also have had a PO Box); Springfield, MO; Zip code. No physical address. Typical rural Missouri drivers license. But here's the kicker: If they bothered to look up the Zip code they would have found that it was for the post office in Republic, not Rogersville! And I think that "fact" was conveniently overlooked in an attempt to sell everyone on their theory. That's the kind of thing we are always up against in this case when you deal with egos instead of documented facts!
 
Some time back a lot of hubbub was made about Garrison having lived in the Oak Crest Trailer Park and the "proof" offered was his drivers license which was never posted or shown online. He only had one license during the time he was out of prison and I guess those offering this proof didn't think anyone else had a copy. The license listed a rual route number (don't remember without looking but it may also have had a PO Box); Springfield, MO; Zip code. No physical address. Typical rural Missouri drivers license. But here's the kicker: If they bothered to look up the Zip code they would have found that it was for the post office in Republic, not Rogersville! And I think that "fact" was conveniently overlooked in an attempt to sell everyone on their theory. That's the kind of thing we are always up against in this case when you deal with egos instead of documented facts!

That is a bad practice and there are other states that do that too, i.e. Nevada. Listing PO boxes for driver’s license without a physical address, that’s dangerous. Other states won’t permit it.

I looked that trailer park up, which now comes up near Mexico, Missouri. Maybe went out of business. But, in 1992, where PHYSICALLY did Mr. Garrison live ? With that rural route number or trailer park or wherever he crashed for the night, Rogersville or Republic ? I have a PO box in another town (which even though it has a post office the town doesn’t legally exist), yet where I live and driver’s license info is in another city. And of course, all different zip codes.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
That is a bad practice and there are other states that do that too, i.e. Nevada. Listing PO boxes for driver’s license without a physical address, that’s dangerous. Other states won’t permit it.

I looked that trailer park up, which now comes up near Mexico, Missouri. Maybe went out of business. But, in 1992, where PHYSICALLY did Mr. Garrison live ? With that rural route number or trailer park or wherever he crashed for the night, Rogersville or Republic ? I have a PO box in another town (which even though it has a post office the town doesn’t legally exist), yet where I live and driver’s license info is in another city. And of course, all different zip codes.

Thanks for the clarification.



The 911 Emergency System for Greene County was already in place in 1992 and as time progressed physical addresses were assigned to all rural routes for that reason, but that took some time. Rural unincorporated parts of counties were the last to be given physical addresses. I believe Oak Crest Trailer Park is in Webster county and not extreme eastern Greene County. And Webster County would have it's own 911 system unless they entered into an agreement with Greene County to dispatch their emergency calls. And I'm not sure but would bet that in today's world here in Missouri it requires a physical address to get a drivers license.

He was living in Springfield during the time that he was free. He was not on parole (he had served his full sentence) and was therefore not required by the Dept of Corrections to report a physical address. If he had gone to the post office and gotten a PO Box to pick his mail up there it would not have had a rural route number assigned to it. The Garrison family always lived in Republic. Besides having a physical address they may have had a PO Box & RR number that he used when he got out of prison and that's how it ended up on his drivers license. If you are a long time resident such as would be the case of an established family home, you can still use your route & box number and get mail even today. I sometimes still use my old route number when I don't want someone to know where I live, such as at Radio Shack where they always ask for an address and I still get their junk mail all the time. Garrison was using his parents PO Box & route number without any fear of someone finding out where he was living or showing up at the family home looking for him.

My whole point in bringing this up is to point out that when this license was offered as proof that he lived at Oak Crest Trailer Park either the zip code wasn't even checked out and a huge leap of faith was made, or we were being intentionally lied to in an effort to fill a gap and support their theory. In either case, to use that information as being a fact to build upon is building a house of cards.

And as Drake has pointed out, Garrison's brother is not named Mike. But why sweat the little things like real true facts?
 
Garrison's address at the time was "RFD 7 Box 439" Springfield MO according to his driver's license. But I agree with Hurricane above.

I think everyone needs to once and for all discredit EVERYTHING CantSay says, and do your own research. I used to follow his trail but what a lesson I learned. He's FOS pretty much on 99% of the things he talks about. Even if he puts a little truth frosting on some of his shitcake, why eat from it?
 
The 911 Emergency System for Greene County was already in place in 1992 and as time progressed physical addresses were assigned to all rural routes for that reason, but that took some time. Rural unincorporated parts of counties were the last to be given physical addresses. I believe Oak Crest Trailer Park is in Webster county and not extreme eastern Greene County. And Webster County would have it's own 911 system unless they entered into an agreement with Greene County to dispatch their emergency calls. And I'm not sure but would bet that in today's world here in Missouri it requires a physical address to get a drivers license.

He was living in Springfield during the time that he was free. He was not on parole (he had served his full sentence) and was therefore not required by the Dept of Corrections to report a physical address. If he had gone to the post office and gotten a PO Box to pick his mail up there it would not have had a rural route number assigned to it. The Garrison family always lived in Republic. Besides having a physical address they may have had a PO Box & RR number that he used when he got out of prison and that's how it ended up on his drivers license. If you are a long time resident such as would be the case of an established family home, you can still use your route & box number and get mail even today. I sometimes still use my old route number when I don't want someone to know where I live, such as at Radio Shack where they always ask for an address and I still get their junk mail all the time. Garrison was using his parents PO Box & route number without any fear of someone finding out where he was living or showing up at the family home looking for him.

My whole point in bringing this up is to point out that when this license was offered as proof that he lived at Oak Crest Trailer Park either the zip code wasn't even checked out and a huge leap of faith was made, or we were being intentionally lied to in an effort to fill a gap and support their theory. In either case, to use that information as being a fact to build upon is building a house of cards.

And as Drake has pointed out, Garrison's brother is not named Mike. But why sweat the little things like real true facts?

Hurricane...points well taken. But, just to be fair with ALL the facts in general. Clerical errors can and do happen. It’s human clerks that make driver’s licenses, it’s clerks who prepare police reports, court papers and even military records. Lee Harvey Oswald’s height varied on different certified government documents, smoking gun for conspiracy hounds, human clerical errors to 'lone nut’ believers like myself. I’m not at all questioning the motive behind what you describe, I don’t know, but I do know ALL government documents can and do contain errors, be it Federal or pedestrian local LE.

And 'Can’t Say,’ if that’s the guy on that other site, he has a credibility problem. If you’ve seen the text on his postings and compare the grammar and spelling with, say profiles of online dating, you’d get a chuckle. Pictures of hotties, but awww, she needs you to wire 15 hundred to her sick mother in Kenya. Believability factor here, similar to some I have with the First Responders’ accounts.
 
Hurricane...points well taken. But, just to be fair with ALL the facts in general. Clerical errors can and do happen. It’s human clerks that make driver’s licenses, it’s clerks who prepare police reports, court papers and even military records. Lee Harvey Oswald’s height varied on different certified government documents, smoking gun for conspiracy hounds, human clerical errors to 'lone nut’ believers like myself. I’m not at all questioning the motive behind what you describe, I don’t know, but I do know ALL government documents can and do contain errors, be it Federal or pedestrian local LE.

And 'Can’t Say,’ if that’s the guy on that other site, he has a credibility problem. If you’ve seen the text on his postings and compare the grammar and spelling with, say profiles of online dating, you’d get a chuckle. Pictures of hotties, but awww, she needs you to wire 15 hundred to her sick mother in Kenya. Believability factor here, similar to some I have with the First Responders’ accounts.

Can't Say was actually not the one using the drivers license as evidence, although he claimed that Garrison had lived there.
 
Can't Say and the parking garage crap have really done a good job helping this case stay unsolved.
 
I get the sense that Stacy's mom, Janis McCall, is bothered that Stacy hung out with Suzie, as if she had some concerns prior to the disappearance.

In the “Vanished” documentary trailer, Janis McCall said, regarding Stacy going to Suzie's house after the parties: And for Stacy to go over there, it was very strange. It was not an ordinary circumstance. During the graduation ceremony, Suzie was very upset. She wanted to go home and stay at her house. She had asked several people to spend the night with her. And I think it was a last minute decision made by Stacy solely because Suzie needed a friend. She didn’t call to tell us. But I think it was 2 a.m. when they made that decision."

I'm still going through the threads and I'm nearly done, but I've never read anywhere that it was "strange" for Stacy to go to Suzie's house. Also, I've not read anywhere that Suzie was upset at graduation and had asked several people to come home with her. Why was she so upset, and why had she wanted someone to go home with her that night? Was she afraid of something?
 
You ask a good question. May have something to do with a disappearance. A good chance actually.
 
I get the sense that Stacy's mom, Janis McCall, is bothered that Stacy hung out with Suzie, as if she had some concerns prior to the disappearance.

In the “Vanished” documentary trailer, Janis McCall said, regarding Stacy going to Suzie's house after the parties: And for Stacy to go over there, it was very strange. It was not an ordinary circumstance. During the graduation ceremony, Suzie was very upset. She wanted to go home and stay at her house. She had asked several people to spend the night with her. And I think it was a last minute decision made by Stacy solely because Suzie needed a friend. She didn’t call to tell us. But I think it was 2 a.m. when they made that decision."

I'm still going through the threads and I'm nearly done, but I've never read anywhere that it was "strange" for Stacy to go to Suzie's house. Also, I've not read anywhere that Suzie was upset at graduation and had asked several people to come home with her. Why was she so upset, and why had she wanted someone to go home with her that night? Was she afraid of something?

I think you're embelishing a little here. I watched the entire Vanished Show today, and no where did I hear Ms. McCall make the statement you quoted above.
 
I think you're embelishing a little here. I watched the entire Vanished Show today, and no where did I hear Ms. McCall make the statement you quoted above.

I think you're confusing the "Disappeared" show with the "Vanished" trailer - an incomplete documentary on the case.

Vanished- A Documentary Film on Vimeo

Mrs. McCall says those words, verbatim, from 35 seconds into the trailer to about 1:08.
 
You ask a good question. May have something to do with a disappearance. A good chance actually

Obviously, hindsight is 20/20. Mrs. McCall may have had concerns before the disappearances. She probably knew that Suzie was going to testify against some unsavory characters in the upcoming grave robber court case. I doubt she would have let Stacy stay there as a precaution.
 
I agree that too much emphasis is being placed here. Mrs. McCall only said that after 20 yrs of reflection. She didn't have those concerns at the time. She obviously knows facts and details told to her thru the years by LE that she didn't know on June 7th - 8th. It would be easy to reflect on those facts and details and make other observations appear to fit now. If these were major concerns of hers they should have come to the forefront in 1992.

Suzie was sick and almost stayed home that night. That is one of the reasons why she was late leaving home. I have no doubt that as the night progressed she just wanted it to be over and to just go home. If we are to believe Appleby's statements then Suzie and he spent most of the evening reminiscing about their school years together. I think it is fair to say that Suzie was not the life of the parties that night but I have found no one who says that she was scared about something. Nor have I found anyone who says that Suzie was asking for someone, anyone to go home with her.
I think you're embelishing a little here. I watched the entire Vanished Show today, and no where did I hear Ms. McCall make the statement you quoted above.
 
I agree that too much emphasis is being placed here
.

I think Monkeymann was challenging whether Mrs. McCall made those statements. She did, which is why I provided the link.


Mrs. McCall only said that after 20 yrs of reflection. She didn't have those concerns at the time. She obviously knows facts and details told to her thru the years by LE that she didn't know on June 7th - 8th. It would be easy to reflect on those facts and details and make other observations appear to fit now. If these were major concerns of hers they should have come to the forefront in 1992.

How do you know she didn't have those concerns at the time? Sometimes people start to reveal things over time that they kept to themselves because LE did not want them to talk about the case publicly. I have to believe Mrs. McCall's statements and that they were not "embellished."
 
.

I think Monkeymann was challenging whether Mrs. McCall made those statements. She did, which is why I provided the link.




How do you know she didn't have those concerns at the time? Sometimes people start to reveal things over time that they kept to themselves because LE did not want them to talk about the case publicly. I have to believe Mrs. McCall's statements and that they were not "embellished."



There is simply no evidence to indicate that she did have those concerns in 1992. How do we know that she didn't have concerns that space aliens took them, as Worsham proposed in frustration at the time? If she had them then I would have suspected that she would have brought them to the forefront in order to get LE to look into it. And if she did bring those concerns to LE and they didn't act on them then I would think she would have continued to push those concerns in interviews given to the media to bring them out into the public. These may be concerns of hers now, but they have only recently come up.

And in talking to friends of Suzie's there certainly is no evidence that she was afraid of anything or that she was asking any of them to go home with her and spend the night because she was afraid to go alone. Janis obviously feels that it was an odd thing for Stacy to do and may be looking for ways in her mind to justify why Stacy did go home with Suzie (the 2:00 am comment). But in light of the occasion and the planned trip to Branson the next day, I don't find it odd at all. Friends say that Suzie & Stacy had recently grown close again in the waining days of school; that Janelle was in a relationship with Hensen and wasn't around them much; and that they didn't find it odd that Stacy went home with Suzie at all.

You do bring up a valid point with the idea that LE didn't want witnesses to speak about the case, an idea I have proposed before. There are minor witnesses who will not speak even off the record to this day because LE asked them not to. I believe that Janelle Kirby was asked by SPD not to speak about certain things she observed about the house upon entering and while being there throughout that day. Participation with the media helps to advance the case and LE wanted that but they wanted her to avoid speaking of her observations concerning items of evidence. As two examples: the broken porch globe; the phone messages. The problem is that she was unprepared on what to say the first time she was asked questions about those things. That is why we have conflicting statements made by an 18 yr old witness. SPD should have given her "the spin" they wanted her to use when asked. But she was caught unprepared when asked such questions by the media and ended up on TV with that "deer in the headlight look" that caused many people to cast a suspicion of guilt her way ever since.
 
There is simply no evidence to indicate that she did have those concerns in 1992. How do we know that she didn't have concerns that space aliens took them, as Worsham proposed in frustration at the time? If she had them then I would have suspected that she would have brought them to the forefront in order to get LE to look into it. And if she did bring those concerns to LE and they didn't act on them then I would think she would have continued to push those concerns in interviews given to the media to bring them out into the public. These may be concerns of hers now, but they have only recently come up.

And in talking to friends of Suzie's there certainly is no evidence that she was afraid of anything or that she was asking any of them to go home with her and spend the night because she was afraid to go alone. Janis obviously feels that it was an odd thing for Stacy to do and may be looking for ways in her mind to justify why Stacy did go home with Suzie (the 2:00 am comment). But in light of the occasion and the planned trip to Branson the next day, I don't find it odd at all. Friends say that Suzie & Stacy had recently grown close again in the waining days of school; that Janelle was in a relationship with Hensen and wasn't around them much; and that they didn't find it odd that Stacy went home with Suzie at all.

You do bring up a valid point with the idea that LE didn't want witnesses to speak about the case, an idea I have proposed before. There are minor witnesses who will not speak even off the record to this day because LE asked them not to. I believe that Janelle Kirby was asked by SPD not to speak about certain things she observed about the house upon entering and while being there throughout that day. Participation with the media helps to advance the case and LE wanted that but they wanted her to avoid speaking of her observations concerning items of evidence. As two examples: the broken porch globe; the phone messages. The problem is that she was unprepared on what to say the first time she was asked questions about those things. That is why we have conflicting statements made by an 18 yr old witness. SPD should have given her "the spin" they wanted her to use when asked. But she was caught unprepared when asked such questions by the media and ended up on TV with that "deer in the headlight look" that caused many people to cast a suspicion of guilt her way ever since.



As has been said before, we can never prove a negative. We can’t prove what someone DIDN’T say. Just because it hasn’t be recorded, reported or referenced, doesn’t mean they didn’t say it. We can prove (in a reasonable sense) what someone did say, or is reported to have said. But what these things all mean, is believability, and the only opinion at the end of the day that will matter (presuming this case reaches trial) is the jury, not LE, not investigators and not observers of the case from the beginning. Rather, selected novices who bring their own personal experiences (regardless of judge/counsel instructions; in any human system biases will always exist) and will draw their own conclusion, determine believability are entrusted with the final decision.

I commend folks such as Hurricane with his extensive study of the case and personal investigation, not to mention the duty to come here to give insight and correction to facts and statements made. But, that’s most of what this case is, just those kinds of 'facts.’ Lacking much hard evidence, we have what people said, or reported to have said. The area this becomes most fractious are conclusions of these statements (what they mean) and 'what someone would have done.’ Correction of facts is always welcome, so too, should the influx of new ideas and the realization there are going to be points we will agree to disagree. Plenty of cases and trials have returned with unanticipated results because of ‘newly uncovered’ information, or information which was dismissed at the time. Not all facts you like make it to court or ever will, further facts are challenged and cross examined with other facts, which you may not be aware of or have not been made public. The State doesn’t hold press conferences with information they have, which discredits their case, that’s the job of the defense. With all due respect to ALL the investigators, LE and the gatekeepers of this message board, NONE of you will be on the jury.

To this specific post. This is just an observation, one of the things which struck me about this case was the relatively lack of adult supervision through the night. I graduated h/s close to this era, 1985, the only party I went to that contained alcohol was the one at my house with family and friends. None of my parties lasted until 2 AM. My parents knew all the outside parties I was at, who I was with, where and when I was expected home. Yes, in the ‘pre-cell phone era’ :) Everybody was different then as now, sure. But, I’m confident any jury collected might have a few with a little grain of thought of such and personally note such contrast with their own lives as well, which can never be hammered out by any judge/prosecution.

To Janelle I accept the point of instructions from LE to be quiet and her being ‘young and scared’ during TV interviews, all I can understand. Her actions that morning I don’t buy, and it’s never been explained to my satisfaction. It doesn’t pass the ‘reasonable person’ standard. None of which do I want to hint at anything criminal she did, as I said before, the only 'crime’ I see her guilty of is 'bad judgment.’ But it has to do with that ‘reasonable doubt’ bar thing which may be the focus one day.
 
And in talking to friends of Suzie's there certainly is no evidence that she was afraid of anything or that she was asking any of them to go home with her and spend the night because she was afraid to go alone.

And who are the friends you are talking to regarding your investigation? Oh. Yeah. You can't share that with the board. Sorry. I just don't go for that. You like to complain about people not putting forth facts, Hurricane, but when YOU say you have facts and "correct" people, you won't share those facts with the board.


There are minor witnesses who will not speak even off the record to this day because LE asked them not to. I believe that Janelle Kirby was asked by SPD not to speak about certain things she observed about the house upon entering and while being there throughout that day.

Did Janelle or LE tell you that, Hurricane? I don't think for a minute that Janelle was asked to keep details of the phone call incident, the porch light globe incident, or anything else she had to say, quiet. For that to be the case, LE would have had to ask everyone involved to "keep quiet." LE might keep something from the public to confirm or substantiate a suspect, but I doubt LE would ask a lot of people involved in such a case to keep quiet on some details, particularly on a cold case after 20 years.



I commend folks such as Hurricane with his extensive study of the case and personal investigation, not to mention the duty to come here to give insight and correction to facts and statements made

"Correction to facts and statements made," is what Hurricane does. Easy to say you have the facts, then "correct" people who bring forth thoughts and possibilities and statements.



The problem is that she was unprepared on what to say the first time she was asked questions about those things. That is why we have conflicting statements made by an 18 yr old witness. SPD should have given her "the spin" they wanted her to use when asked. But she was caught unprepared when asked such questions by the media and ended up on TV with that "deer in the headlight look" that caused many people to cast a suspicion of guilt her way ever since.

The standard response she could have made and LE would have advised her to make is, "I've been advised by LE not to speak to the press regarding this case because it would compromise the investigation." End of story. Instead, she talks to the media and gives accounts that don't seem realistic. Not saying she is involved in any way.
 
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