The Talent show

[debs]

Agreed, but if they had no knowledge of the talent show that afternoon then those statements are made regarding the science fair which was held in the early AM. They may have been able to attend an afternoon performance. Kaine left work early and He may have attended if he had known it was an option. If Th is guilty I'm sure she would want as much time as possible before the alarm is raised that Kyron is missing therefore it would be helpful to TH if Kaine was in the dark about this activity. This way she knew precisely the moment(no surprise timeline) they would learn that Kyron was missing (when he wasn't on the bus) and then add in some more time for the confusion on well maybe he just missed the bus, maybe he was confused and thought they were picking him up to go for ice cream etc... Then more time for the school to call authorities have them show up get themselves organized etc before anyone is really looking for k. That buys quite a lot of time. If Kaine showed up at the school for the talent show realized Kyron was missing things would have been in motion a hell of a lot sooner. I also would agree that is a big IF (him showing up) but if TH planned this (another big IF ) she covered her bases well.

JMO

I don't know. Perhaps. What I know is that for the few minutes it would have taken to at least see his son's display in the room before he took off for work, it was important for Kaine to get to work. No fault applied; it is what he had to do. What makes us then assume that he would be more flexible at 1 p.m. when the talent show started? In fact, he didn't even leave work til a quarter to 2. I can't make the assumption that he would have left earlier if he'd have known, though it would be easy to do so since it would fill in a gap that says Terri MAY have had a reason to lie about a talent show. And Desiree was 4 hours away, no matter what time of the day, and was expecting to meet up to get Kyron sometime Friday evening.

But the thing is, we know that Kaine and Desiree both insisted that the assured and guaranteed and documented science fair, the thing Kaine worked really hard with Kyron to get the diorama made for, that Kyron was excited to show off, that his daddy loved on him and told him how proud he was of Kyron, was something neither of them could attend, this thing they both state their son was so very proud of. This talent show that they don't know about? Not so much.

I'm not bashing. I'm just saying, we can't assume that Kyron's very busy parents would have made this choice. We're just putting it on them to fit a theory.

I'll wait until that's cleared up to make my very UNIMPORTANT decision on it. But I can't use it to say Terri was artfully making certain that no one showed up. And I'll say that because she herself didn't bother to show up to make a big show of Kyron not being at the school at this talent show that she maybe kept secret from Kyron's two parents so that she could use the time to disappear Kyron.... oh wait, that's right. By 1, she was back home, and Kyron had been missing since about 9 a.m. See what I mean? It just doesn't make sense to me.

So, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm merely stating my perspective on why this doesn't make sense.

 

[scotslass]

I'll wait until that's cleared up to make my very UNIMPORTANT decision on it. But I can't use it to say Terri was artfully making certain that no one showed up. And I'll say that because she herself didn't bother to show up to make a big show of Kyron not being at the school at this talent show that she maybe kept secret from Kyron's two parents so that she could use the time to disappear Kyron.... oh wait, that's right. By 1, she was back home, and Kyron had been missing since about 9 a.m. See what I mean? It just doesn't make sense to me.

So, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm merely stating my perspective on why this doesn't make sense.

respectively snipped by me...

Gotcha and I really do see your perspective...although I still say if TH did it she wouldn't show up at the talent show and blow the whistle then as she or her accomplice needed as much time as possible before the search began. Which brings me to the question of timelines has anyone else's timeline for that day been outed or do we only have TH's? I have been sporadic lately on getting online( family stuff) and there is no media coverage of Kyron where i am(canada). If he were living next door no one around here would notice.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the fact that the issue of the talent show has not been cleared up for the public means anything. Nothing has been cleared up for the public.

 

[cypress]

Honestly, it seems like a sociopathic/Munchhausen by proxy/narcissist's dream to show up at the talent show with baby K and a camera in hand, ready to film Kyron's very special part in the talent show, only to discover him missing. Is there a bigger spotlight than being at the school and discovering your child is missing? Would there have been a better moment to play up the doting, horrified, ultimately bereft stepmother?

Terri is largely accounted for until 10 and after 11:30. If she's guilty, whatever was done to Kyron was done. She had the wherewithal to go to the gym, why not the talent show?

Also, FWIW, if Terri is guilty I don't think she "involved" Kyron in her plan to remove him from the school. Kaine and Desiree have stated that Kyron had trouble following directions. Terri was Kyron's primary caregiver, and I'm sure she was aware of this as well. Kaine has spoken of Terri's awareness of Kyron's behavioral issues/challenges. Regardless of who took Kyron from the school, the plan was risky. IMHO, whoever took him would not give him information that could, in retrospect, give away the identity of his abductor. Regardless of whether or not Kyron had trouble following directions, I think it's too risky for anyone to make their plan dependent upon his obedience. Compliance is another issue entirely, IMHO.

 

[bessie]

Honestly, it seems like a sociopathic/Munchhausen by proxy/narcissist's dream to show up at the talent show with baby K and a camera in hand, ready to film Kyron's very special part in the talent show, only to discover him missing. Is there a bigger spotlight than being at the school and discovering your child is missing? Would there have been a better moment to play up the doting, horrified, ultimately bereft stepmother?

Terri is largely accounted for until 10 and after 11:30. If she's guilty, whatever was done to Kyron was done. She had the wherewithal to go to the gym, why not the talent show?

Also, FWIW, if Terri is guilty I don't think she "involved" Kyron in her plan to remove him from the school. Kaine and Desiree have stated that Kyron had trouble following directions. Terri was Kyron's primary caregiver, and I'm sure she was aware of this as well. Kaine has spoken of Terri's awareness of Kyron's behavioral issues/challenges. Regardless of who took Kyron from the school, the plan was risky. IMHO, whoever took him would not give him information that could, in retrospect, give away the identity of his abductor. Regardless of whether or not Kyron had trouble following directions, I think it's too risky for anyone to make their plan dependent upon his obedience. Compliance is another issue entirely, IMHO.

That makes sense. So if Terri did murder Kyron, I guess she's just plain nuts.

 

[DreamyEye]

I just realized that her son "and Kyron" were supposed to appear in the talent show together with however many other children. I've always taken that statement that they were doing the same talent skit.....but really all it says is that her son, also, was going to be in the talent show.....though we really still don't know how she knows whether Kyron was supposed to be in that show.

:: sigh ::

Now I'm all mixed up. I took the comment (which doesn't appear to be directly attributed to the mother) to mean that the son was going to appear "together with" Kyron, which to me would indicate the two of them in the same performance. Otherwise I would expect it to say "the son, like Kyron, was set to appear in the talent show," or "the son and Kyron were both supposed to appear in the talent show." Nuances nuances. And interpretations! How they do sneak up on a person.

 

[DreamyEye]

Or he might have expected not to miss a full day because of the doctor's appointment, and thought that he'd be back in time for the talent show.

Thank you, Pufnstuf.

I've been mulling and mulling on this. Back in my day (just this side of the stone age), if my parents went to the trouble to take me out of school for a doctor's appointment, they'd have just told me to get my assignments and wouldn't take me back to school after the appointment. I wouldn't have expected to go back. And if the appointment was before noon, they probably just wouldn't have sent me to school in the first place. But a lot has changed since those days, I take it. (Had no kids of my own, so I'm waaaaay out of the loop on this one.)

I don't know whether I could have influenced her in my favor, but if Mom had told me I had an appt on a big day that included a science fair and a talent show, I'd have raised a ruckus and hoped she'd change the appt!

For some reason, it seems important to me to get clear on what Kyron expected to happen that day vrs what actually happened. Is it possible to know ... or even to guess, I wonder?

 

[DreamyEye]

I don't find it odd that Kaine and Desiree might not have known anything about the talent show--or that they might have known about it, but believed Kyron was not going to perform.

By June 4, it was likely known to everyone--including Kyron--that Desiree would not be coming to the school due to living some distance away and having to work. So why mention it to her? The science project, on the other hand, was a tangible thing. Something he could keep at home after the science fair. Something he could show off to Desiree. It seems likely Kyron saw a reason to tell Desiree about the science project, but not about the talent show.

Pretty much the same scenario with Kaine. As he and Kyron worked on the tree frog project, Kaine probably had to tell Kryon "sorry, Son. Can't get away from work to come to the fair, but I know you're gonna knock 'em out." From this, Kryon would probably reason "if he can't come for the science fair, there's no point in telling him about the talent show."

Meanwhile Kaine and Desiree probably regard themselves as reasonably attentive parents ... and when the question of a talent show was raised to them, they might well bristle with thoughts like "no no no, if he was going to be in a talent show, I'd have known about it."

Though childless myself, I do know that parents often marvel and even go into shock when they find out what their kids haven't been telling them.

 

[Donjeta]

A surprise for who? Each parent has a reasonable explanation as to why they weren't going to be at the school that day. We know Desiree hadn't planned to come to Portland to pick up Kyron since Terri and Kaine were going to drive him down to his mom's house.

Who would Kyron want to surprise?

Well, his parents? His grandparents? Godparents? Maybe they would have to be there to be properly awed by the performance but they would not have to be there to be surprised. He could have told them later that he did great or maybe he knew that the performance was going to be videotaped or photographed by someone at the school or thought that Terri was going to be there or maybe the kids got a badge for performing or something. He could have produced the proof later and surprised whoever he wanted at any convenient time.

 

[PaulaF513]

I don't find it odd that Kaine and Desiree might not have known anything about the talent show--or that they might have known about it, but believed Kyron was not going to perform.

By June 4, it was likely known to everyone--including Kyron--that Desiree would not be coming to the school due to living some distance away and having to work. So why mention it to her? The science project, on the other hand, was a tangible thing. Something he could keep at home after the science fair. Something he could show off to Desiree. It seems likely Kyron saw a reason to tell Desiree about the science project, but not about the talent show.

Pretty much the same scenario with Kaine. As he and Kyron worked on the tree frog project, Kaine probably had to tell Kryon "sorry, Son. Can't get away from work to come to the fair, but I know you're gonna knock 'em out." From this, Kryon would probably reason "if he can't come for the science fair, there's no point in telling him about the talent show."

Meanwhile Kaine and Desiree probably regard themselves as reasonably attentive parents ... and when the question of a talent show was raised to them, they might well bristle with thoughts like "no no no, if he was going to be in a talent show, I'd have known about it."

Though childless myself, I do know that parents often marvel and even go into shock when they find out what their kids haven't been telling them.

Personally, I highly doubt Kyron was going to be in a talent show. From what I've read, the kids were going to be allotted 2 minutes for their individual skits. What "talent" did Kyron possess which would have caused him to completely overcome his alleged shy, timid persona, and take to the stage for a solo or duet, in front of the entire school?

And if he was going to participate in one, I believe he most certainly would have mentioned it to his father, especially taken in context with their interaction that morning and Kaine's "good luck" regarding his science project.

 

[BeanE]

For some reason, it seems important to me to get clear on what Kyron expected to happen that day vrs what actually happened. Is it possible to know ... or even to guess, I wonder?

From what Kaine has said, I'm under the impression that he loves and cares about Kyron, and is involved in, and attentive to, the things in Kyron's life.

That being the case, I think Kaine would have made a point to mention to Kyron - or Kyron to him - the significant things of the day to come the morning of June 4.

Kaine said Kyron and he talked about the science fair that morning. That's an example of what I mean.

It's therefore significant to me that, that morning, Kaine and Kyron talked about the science fair, and didn't talk about the talent show or a doctor's appointment. It looks to me like neither Kaine nor Kyron expected, as of 7:45am that morning, the talent show or doctor's appointment to happen that day.

 

[32beatspersecond]

what if Kyron did attend the talent show, so to speak, and the performance is still running...we can deduct from terri's interests and exploitations that kyron was exposed to the CSI atmosphere and he was also exposed to a lot of drama in the home. He would not be the first child to manifest such an escapade on his own. I could see something like this occuring and in a heightened state of anxiety all this collateral damage begins to erupt around him as the suspicion mounts and the search digs deeper. this is just a way off idea that has been festering in the mind and I wanted to say it and get rid of it...thanks...and I'm glad to be back from my 3 day suspe...I mean vacation .!!:twocents:

 

[Billylee]

I'll wait until that's cleared up to make my very UNIMPORTANT decision on it. But I can't use it to say Terri was artfully making certain that no one showed up. And I'll say that because she herself didn't bother to show up to make a big show of Kyron not being at the school at this talent show that she maybe kept secret from Kyron's two parents so that she could use the time to disappear Kyron.... oh wait, that's right. By 1, she was back home, and Kyron had been missing since about 9 a.m. See what I mean? It just doesn't make sense to me.

So, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm merely stating my perspective on why this doesn't make sense.

snipped & bbm

I agree TH wouldn't have been "disappearing" Kyron during the talent show time, but if she had anything to do with his disappearance, such as a hand off, she would have wanted all the time she could get for whomever she handed off to to disappear with Kyron.
So any family showing up at the talent show, would have shortened that time.

 

[Billylee]

respectively snipped by me...

Gotcha and I really do see your perspective...although I still say if TH did it she wouldn't show up at the talent show and blow the whistle then as she or her accomplice needed as much time as possible before the search began. Which brings me to the question of timelines has anyone else's timeline for that day been outed or do we only have TH's? I have been sporadic lately on getting online( family stuff) and there is no media coverage of Kyron where i am(canada). If he were living next door no one around here would notice.

That is sad, here's a poster you can print and post somewhere:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/horman_kr.htm

 

[gliving]

Personally, I highly doubt Kyron was going to be in a talent show. From what I've read, the kids were going to be allotted 2 minutes for their individual skits. What "talent" did Kyron possess which would have caused him to completely overcome his alleged shy, timid persona, and take to the stage for a solo or duet, in front of the entire school?

And if he was going to participate in one, I believe he most certainly would have mentioned it to his father, especially taken in context with their interaction that morning and Kaine's "good luck" regarding his science project.

I thought maybe the 9yo and Kyron planned a little magic trick. Children that age love slight of hand and Kyron could act in the more passive role.

 

[debs]

snipped & bbm

I agree TH wouldn't have been "disappearing" Kyron during the talent show time, but if she had anything to do with his disappearance, such as a hand off, she would have wanted all the time she could get for whomever she handed off to to disappear with Kyron.
So any family showing up at the talent show, would have shortened that time.

Not if Terri's plan was to take him right before school started at 8:45, confusing the matter with a dr's appointment. In fact, it would have benefitted her love of drama (as many supply her with) to then return to the school at one, anxiously preparing to video Kyron on stage, talking with Kaine and/or Desiree as they await Kyron's appearance, only to discover he's been gone. Terri the drama queen (as people call her) would have done this. But Terri went home by 1. One is when the talent show began. She didn't use any of that time during 9 and 1 to do much more than go to some stores and the gym. Perhaps in there she may have handed off Kyron, I don't know, but it was all done by 1 p.m. when she was at home.

When Kaine arrived home around 2, he said everything was normal, nothing out of the ordinary. I don't know about you, but I couldn't be calm if I'd have done all this. I think Terri would have needed to make the drama at the school, since if Terri disappeared Kyron, and she's a drama queen, and she needs to feed her narcissism because it's all about her.....going home and playing on the computer seems rather........er, antithesis to a narcissistic drama queen.

 

[BeanE]

If Terri did it, and she was the one in the white truck by Jim Kelley's, and she needed to go there at that time (3pm), then she would not have wanted Kaine knowing about the talent show and possibly deciding to go to it (at 1pm), because then he would have discovered Kyron missing at 1pm,, and she wouldn't have been able to do whatever she needed to do at 3pm near Jim Kelley's.

/me pats myself on the back for yet another of my champion-level run-on sentences

 

[Kat010]

I feel like I came to class for a test and found out I'd read the wrong chapter. Or the wrong book. Or got into the wrong classroom!

I don't see how the talent show has anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. The only way I can think of that it might is if some teacher, not Kyron's, was introducing acts, and called out Kyron's name with others, then said "Kyron Horman? Where is Kyron?" and his friend popped up and said "He's GONE! I've been trying to tell you that but nobody listens! He didn't come to class after we looked at the science fair."

Then either Kyron's teacher says clearly, in front of everyone, that he had a dr's appointment, and things move on. Or else she says something, and someone from the office says "wait! I didn't have that marked down" or "wait! that appointment is next week." And then maybe, just maybe, someone calls home to check on him, while the show goes on.

Then we would have clearly known more about what Kyron's teacher said, vi multiple witnesses. And if, if, they realized then that something was wrong, there would have been an earlier start to looking for Kyron.

JMO, of course.

Kyron went missing in the a.m. If TH did it, and had this big convoluted plot with DD, or someone else, or just herself, and driving around, and then getting home to be calm and doing normal stuff when KH came home, and, and....adding another layer about the talent show would have been...mind-boggling.

Which reminds me--did she know KH was coming home early that day? Did anyone? Why did he come home early? Has anyone seen anything about that?

And..thinking out loud...if he was home early, and they had to take Kyron to DY's (not sure if they were meeting half way or they were driving all the way, or if the trip was only TH's duty), why didn't KH say "hey, let's surprise Kyron, go get him, go get ice cream, call DY and get started early. Get a hamburger along the way." Or maybe "Honey, if K. is sick and fussy, why don't you and her stay home, and I'll get Kyron, and we'll have a boy's night out taking him to DY."

Of course, if it was a SO or other perp, known or unknown to Kyron, the talent show doesn't mean a thing because the snatch had already been made.

Sigh. So many questions. So many choices. Starting with: why didn't the school clearly realize that one of their children was missing, even with a volunteer and another child telling them so? That frustrates me no end.

 

[Kat010]

Honestly, it seems like a sociopathic/Munchhausen by proxy/narcissist's dream to show up at the talent show with baby K and a camera in hand, ready to film Kyron's very special part in the talent show, only to discover him missing. Is there a bigger spotlight than being at the school and discovering your child is missing? Would there have been a better moment to play up the doting, horrified, ultimately bereft stepmother?

Terri is largely accounted for until 10 and after 11:30. If she's guilty, whatever was done to Kyron was done. She had the wherewithal to go to the gym, why not the talent show?

Also, FWIW, if Terri is guilty I don't think she "involved" Kyron in her plan to remove him from the school. Kaine and Desiree have stated that Kyron had trouble following directions. Terri was Kyron's primary caregiver, and I'm sure she was aware of this as well. Kaine has spoken of Terri's awareness of Kyron's behavioral issues/challenges. Regardless of who took Kyron from the school, the plan was risky. IMHO, whoever took him would not give him information that could, in retrospect, give away the identity of his abductor. Regardless of whether or not Kyron had trouble following directions, I think it's too risky for anyone to make their plan dependent upon his obedience. Compliance is another issue entirely, IMHO.

BBM

Exactly. That scenario would have been a bonus for anyone afflicted with MSP, etc. The fact that she was at home, doing normal stuff, pretty much, IMHO, negates any idea that she was those things. That's not saying that she's not guilty--nor that she is--but that her behavior hasn't been like that of a MSP. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Whether Kyron was supposed to be in the talent show or not, clearly it was not an important enough event to cause any stir at all when he was not there at 1pm, since no one seemed to acknowledge his being out of school all day until he did not get off the bus. So to me, either he was not signed up or his role was a passive one as a part of a group and went unnoticed or at least unacknowledged/not worried about. (Sorry about ending a sentence with "about.")

But I still don't think he was going to be in it...his parents would have known. No one has indicated what sort of talent he was to provide, and it seems that would have been mentioned if he indeed was to perform.