The Theater and the Shooting

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HastingsChi said:
Snipped by me.

I've been wondering the same thing about the parking situation DeadCat. Considering it was a very busy night at the theatre, I'd imagine parking might be at a premium.

I guess if we knew if at the Aurora Cineplex if it was common for folks wanting to beat the parking lot crowd to exit directly into the parking lot via the emergency exit and not go through the lobby.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
Click to expand...

From my experiences going to movies over the years, there are waaay too many parking spaces at these big theaters. The very backside is almost always completely empty even on busy nights. Except for the few people getting stoned trying to stay out of sight hardly anyone parks back there. Anyone who parks back there is just asking for their car to get broken into imo. Which did happen to a friend of mine last year. (and yes he was back there because he was smoking weed before his movie haha)

Also if people were parked there that night the cars would be there in the photos you see of his car.
 
HastingsChi said:
Great thoughts ~n/t ~ I've definitely wondered the same things; it would be so helpful to know the approximate number of cars parked behind the theatre either that night or on generally busy nights.

It seems that someone who planned for this so extensively to the point of making sure his car was perfectly located for preparation and a quick getaway and had his apartment wired with booby traps would at least make some effort to flee the scene and never tip off the intended target to the booby trapped apartment.

Like I said I'm pretty certain he committed these atrocities but I have questions...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
Click to expand...
Ok. Here are a few of my thoughts on the above.. I'll preface this by saying that IMO this individual absolutely is the sole responsible party for plotting, planning, ordering, organizing, and executing the murders.. However I will say that I also can understand why some have questions and have not ruled out the possibility of a second person involved(tho, I did want to ask about the above BBM.. Are you saying you believe it possible that he was not the assailant and somehow framed??.. As I wasn't certain due to the wording not expressing question about an accomplice but rather that possibly he's not the shooter??)

As far as his not fleeing.. I have several thoughts on this such as initially I found it a great possibility that his swat like attire was more for fleeing in plain sight amongst other swat members.. As in we know that initially upon LE making contact with the shooter that at first sight the shooter was thought to possibly be a swat team member due to his attire.. In fact it was only due to the fact that the shooter made the mistake of wearing the groin protection that set off the warning bells of the LE officers..otherwise IMO it's a possibility that he could have in the midst of chaos and high energy and adrenaline been allowed to easy blend in and thereby leave the premisis(SWAT members do not wear groin protectors as it greatly reduces their ability to move with ease.. The fact that the shooter made the mistake of having the groin piece on IMO is what led to further questioning).. Whereas had he not had the groin pIece on IMO there would not have been that alert to the officers which led them to further question the shooter.. Again had that alert not been present IMO I find it plausible that there wouldn't have been the further questioning which is what led to his being arrested..

So, you see in that scenario I find it likely that the shooter may have possibly intended to hide in plain sight as an officer, freely moving amidst the chaos and thereby even likely to have escaped amidst the initial chaos.. All because of his wearing that one piece of protection in the groin area is what led to his demise..

But here is where I begin to question did he really EVER INTEND TO GET AWAY WITH THIS?? As in did he really have any intention of freely leaving century 16 after his reign of terror.. Of course the largest issue that IMO points to NO, THE SHOOTER NEVER INTENDED TO GET AWAY AND FULLY EXPECTED TO BE CAUGHT AND ARRESTED is the obvious fact of his over kill booby trapped apt.. If the shooter intended to commit mass murder, and then as SWAT arrives immediately on the chaotic scene his intent was to hide amidst them in plain sight and thereby able to flee the scene..*

That stops deAd in its tracks when you get to the apt issue.. IT WAS THE SHOOTERS APT.. THEREFOR HE IMO HAD EVERY INTENTION ON EVERYONE KNOWING THAT HE WAS THE ASSAILANT.. He wanted.. He needed to be recognized for the hideous and heinous murders.. That was the plan all along.. If you step back and look at the big picture it becomes crystal clear that the shooter IMO NEVER EVER INTENDED, NOR PLANNED TO FLEE THE SCENE..

The shooters plan IMO went exactly according plan as far as the end result of his being arrested that night.. He IMO NEVER INTENDED OR PLANNED ANY DIFFERENT!!.. There was no he just got caught.. Or why did he screw up and allow himself to get caught that night??.. Questions of if he planned so well then how the hell did he end up IMMEDIATELY CAUGHT AND ARRESTED FOR THIS METHODICALLY PLANNED MURDER AND MAYHEM???

The answer to that is his being arrested absolutely was every bit a part of his entire plan.. There were no mistakes made by him(ATLEAST not as far as his being arrested) the plan was for him to be arrested and unharmed.. He planned it that way.. His apt IMO proves that point as well as proves that he absolutely wanted/needed the recognition.. A Main component of his plan..A main motive wAs recognition for his masterful planning and execution of that plan..

IMO his plan at this point is still going exactly as planned(except IMO for the fact that so very many of us have already figured out what the remainder of his plan is).. As in the way IMO he has plotted/planned to get away with it.. Yet at the exact same time STILL RECEIVE EVERY SINGLE OUNCE OF FULL NAMED RECOGNITION FOR HIS MASTERFUL PLAN.. The way he has planned it is to succeed in both areas..

Sure he couldve planned it whereas to slip away and get away with it.. But what Jimmy desperately needed and is *a main component and motive for the entire event IS NAMED RECOGNITION.. He needs his name to be Known that he is the one who brilliantly planned such(in his mind).. Planned it to a tee to where he could fulfill that most desperate need/want of having his name recognition as well as his "getting away with it".. In playing it all the way out thru the media and the court of law.. Both are nothing but pawns in Jimmys long thought out plan.. He full well expects to have achieved BOTH OF HIS DESPERATE NEEDS..

His full name known as this mass murderer to go down in history along with a long term plan to eventually get away with it by using the media/courts to his benefit along with his use of severe and debilitating MI to not end up with a needle in his arm..

For now Jimmys plan is still on course..Tho IMO no doubt he'd not at all counted on just how truly difficult life behind bars could be.. IMO that's one piece of his plan that he could have no real way of preparing himself for and it just may a piece that turns to work against Jimmy.. Only time will tell about that..

All jmo.*
 
SmoothOperator said:
Ok. Here are a few of my thoughts on the above.. I'll preface this by saying that IMO this individual absolutely is the sole responsible party for plotting, planning, ordering, organizing, and executing the murders.. However I will say that I also can understand why some have questions and have not ruled out the possibility of a second person involved(tho, I did want to ask about the above BBM.. Are you saying you believe it possible that he was not the assailant and somehow framed??.. As I wasn't certain due to the wording not expressing question about an accomplice but rather that possibly he's not the shooter??)
Click to expand...

Absolutely brilliant post SmoothOperator. I snipped it because I want to further process your writing and provide a reply worthy of your well thought out post.

I did want to immediately comment on the area I snipped: I am very confident that Holmes was the assailant. My questions are related to: potential assistance, Holmes modus operandi and reasoning for allegedly sharing critically important elements with LE but not cooperating.

Frankly some things don't add up and, in my opinion, the more of these types of questions we raise here and investigate, the chance of a juror having the same unanswered questions are greatly reduced because of either us finding fact based answers or the prosecution answering these important questions in their presentation.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
 
SmoothOperator said:
But here is where I begin to question did he really EVER INTEND TO GET AWAY WITH THIS?? As in did he really have any intention of freely leaving century 16 after his reign of terror.. Of course the largest issue that IMO points to NO, THE SHOOTER NEVER INTENDED TO GET AWAY AND FULLY EXPECTED TO BE CAUGHT AND ARRESTED is the obvious fact of his over kill booby trapped apt..
Click to expand...

...and the AFF site with "Will you visit me in jail?" Seemed to be that he knew.
 
Hastings I too have questions about the supposed tip off to LE about the apt.. I have this far just let it be in hopes that we have clarity about exactly what it was that was said by the shooter to LE regarding his apt.. Unfortunately it appears as tho we won't be getting that clarification any time soon, especially with the gag order in place..

Moo is that it's not what it appears to be.. Meaning that with the elusive drips and drabs that we've heard about what the shooter initially said to LE I believe that the truth is something much different than what's been twisted and turned in the media that's been reported as he just flat out "warned" or told LE of his explosive apt..

Ya see I don't believe at all that's what happened and I'll tell you a couple of reasons why I feel so strongly that In fact the shooter had zero intention of helping, aiding, or tipping off police in the way that has been somewhat spun in the media. .

First there is the obvious just like you state, Hastings, his warning or tipping off LE about the explosive apt just does not in any way whatsoever jive with what this individuals main motive was.. Which IMO was as much death and destruction as he possibly could create.. This individual once arrested all of a sudden did NOT get scared(his getting arrested was all part of the plan) and attempt to help himself by tipping off police to the apt in hopes of it lessening his punishment.. this individual had just shot a 3 month old newborn in the back, and blasted a 6yr year old tiny little girl to death in front of her mommy.. This man didn't suddenly have a conscience.. No way..

Secondly, it what Chief Oates said and more so the anger and outrage behind what he said.. He indicated that the shooter after being arrested made direct, deviant threats to his officers, along with the fact that without a doubt he knew all or some of the intricately morbid and deadly explosives within the shooters apt were every bit designed for his officers and first responders.. He was downright aggressively angry at the shooter(and IMO rightfully so)..

Those are just a couple of reasons that I feel so very strongly that the shooter by no means whatsoever was at all helping or aiding LE in whatever it was that was spoken that night to LE.. I do not in any way at all believe that it is what the media has painted it to be(ie. that the shooter stupidly told on himself thwarting a major part of his crime in wanting to help or save himself)..

I firmly believe we have not yet heard the accurate truth regarding the shooter disclosing any info to LE about his rigged apt.. Another thought that I have strongly believed since day one is that the shooters intent was definitely to have had the apt explosion immediately preceding the shooting spree for obvious reasons Of having LE/first responders distracted and unavailable thereby allowing his reign of terror and death toll To be longer and higher..
So with that in mind I also find it possible that the shooter very much was under the impression that LE already knew of the explosion and thereby I could definitely seeing him boastfully saying something in Joker lunacy about his explosive apt and did they enjoy it.. Or something equally crazy and sinister all under the Impression that The apt had already exploded and caused more carnage and death and his NOT HAVING A CLUE that actually it had not happened and that in his mentioning it thereby tipped off and actually not only helpEd LE but saved many many lives..

However it happened or came to fruition that night with the shooter making mention of the apt to LE.. One thing I feel certain about is that the motive behind his mentioning the apt WAS NOT AT ALL TO HELP, AID, OR SAVE LIVES..

Jmo..
 
Do you think it's a possibility that he may have tipped off officers to get a kick out of hearing about them dismantling his apartment? Just thinking he was smarter than the FBI etc. Just one other possibility
 
pinkflamingo said:
Do you think it's a possibility that he may have tipped off officers to get a kick out of hearing about them dismantling his apartment? Just thinking he was smarter than the FBI etc. Just one other possibility
Click to expand...

Could be.
 
SmoothOperator said:
Hastings I too have questions about the supposed tip off to LE about the apt.. I have this far just let it be in hopes that we have clarity about exactly what it was that was said by the shooter to LE regarding his apt.. Unfortunately it appears as tho we won't be getting that clarification any time soon, especially with the gag order.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to give you a head's up that circa 22 media outlets have joined together and filed a motion to have the gag order lifted and media coverage permitted in the courtroom.

Constitutionally they have a strong argument as the framers of the US Constitution specifically put measures in to have a court/justice system open to the public. The public's right to know is strong and the media presentation should be interesting.

My guess is that the ruling will be a compromise either allowing cameras in court or lifting the gag order; but not both.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
 
SmoothOperator said:
Hastings I too have questions about the supposed tip off to LE about the apt.. I have this far just let it be in hopes that we have clarity about exactly what it was that was said by the shooter to LE regarding his apt.. Unfortunately it appears as tho we won't be getting that clarification any time soon, especially with the gag order in place..

Moo is that it's not what it appears to be.. Meaning that with the elusive drips and drabs that we've heard about what the shooter initially said to LE I believe that the truth is something much different than what's been twisted and turned in the media that's been reported as he just flat out "warned" or told LE of his explosive apt..

Ya see I don't believe at all that's what happened and I'll tell you a couple of reasons why I feel so strongly that In fact the shooter had zero intention of helping, aiding, or tipping off police in the way that has been somewhat spun in the media. .

First there is the obvious just like you state, Hastings, his warning or tipping off LE about the explosive apt just does not in any way whatsoever jive with what this individuals main motive was.. Which IMO was as much death and destruction as he possibly could create.. This individual once arrested all of a sudden did NOT get scared(his getting arrested was all part of the plan) and attempt to help himself by tipping off police to the apt in hopes of it lessening his punishment.. this individual had just shot a 3 month old newborn in the back, and blasted a 6yr year old tiny little girl to death in front of her mommy.. This man didn't suddenly have a conscience.. No way..

Secondly, it what Chief Oates said and more so the anger and outrage behind what he said.. He indicated that the shooter after being arrested made direct, deviant threats to his officers, along with the fact that without a doubt he knew all or some of the intricately morbid and deadly explosives within the shooters apt were every bit designed for his officers and first responders.. He was downright aggressively angry at the shooter(and IMO rightfully so)..

Those are just a couple of reasons that I feel so very strongly that the shooter by no means whatsoever was at all helping or aiding LE in whatever it was that was spoken that night to LE.. I do not in any way at all believe that it is what the media has painted it to be(ie. that the shooter stupidly told on himself thwarting a major part of his crime in wanting to help or save himself)..

I firmly believe we have not yet heard the accurate truth regarding the shooter disclosing any info to LE about his rigged apt.. Another thought that I have strongly believed since day one is that the shooters intent was definitely to have had the apt explosion immediately preceding the shooting spree for obvious reasons Of having LE/first responders distracted and unavailable thereby allowing his reign of terror and death toll To be longer and higher..
So with that in mind I also find it possible that the shooter very much was under the impression that LE already knew of the explosion and thereby I could definitely seeing him boastfully saying something in Joker lunacy about his explosive apt and did they enjoy it.. Or something equally crazy and sinister all under the Impression that The apt had already exploded and caused more carnage and death and his NOT HAVING A CLUE that actually it had not happened and that in his mentioning it thereby tipped off and actually not only helpEd LE but saved many many lives..

However it happened or came to fruition that night with the shooter making mention of the apt to LE.. One thing I feel certain about is that the motive behind his mentioning the apt WAS NOT AT ALL TO HELP, AID, OR SAVE LIVES..

Jmo..
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention: another fantastic summary of your thoughts, and, I must say I think you are spot-on. I think that when the true facts are revealed that a lot of misinformation by LE, Holmes, the media and definitely the university will be revealed. In most of these situations I try to take the reporting, the denials (and reasons for denying media reports) and my own research to try to reach a happy medium of what the actual truth us most likely to be; usually it's a combination of things...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
 
If the booby trapped apartment HAD gone off, he would have gotten away if he wanted to-the cops probably would not have responded as fast...JMO
 
This is a quite troubling development, from the Associated Press via the Colorado Springs Gazette:

Aurora theater lacked security, unlike some peers
http://www.gazette.com/articles/theater-142407-guards-security.html

The Colorado movie theater complex that was the scene of a gunman's massacre this month didn't have any uniformed security guards on duty the night of the shooting, even though other theaters operated by the same company did provide such protection for the busy premiere of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises."


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
 
HastingsChi said:
This is a quite troubling development, from the Associated Press via the Colorado Springs Gazette:

Aurora theater lacked security, unlike some peers
http://www.gazette.com/articles/theater-142407-guards-security.html

The Colorado movie theater complex that was the scene of a gunman's massacre this month didn't have any uniformed security guards on duty the night of the shooting, even though other theaters operated by the same company did provide such protection for the busy premiere of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises."


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2
Click to expand...

Thanks. I saw that earlier today and wondered if JH had visited the theater previously to note the amount of security present on certain days. Still, one would have thought tgey'd have had more security available at that particular opening.

Iirc, it had been mentioned previously that LE was in attendance or nearby, hence the quick response. But I'm getting too tired to look for the link, maybe tomorrow.
 
Anytime anyone here has a link to a new media story, you are all welcome to post it to the Media Links thread, if you like. For the newbies - it's a sticky up at the top of this forum. It's a bit discombobulated (chronologically). I've been trying to gather some of the older news stories to post there. Just bear with me on that. It should improve, as we get less and less new news.
 
What'sThatClue said:
Thanks. I saw that earlier today and wondered if JH had visited the theater previously to note the amount of security present on certain days. Still, one would have thought tgey'd have had more security available at that particular opening.

Iirc, it had been mentioned previously that LE was in attendance or nearby, hence the quick response. But I'm getting too tired to look for the link, maybe tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I put the video under "contradictions" thread.
 
SmoothOperator said:
Another thought that I have strongly believed since day one is that the shooters intent was definitely to have had the apt explosion immediately preceding the shooting spree for obvious reasons Of having LE/first responders distracted and unavailable thereby allowing his reign of terror and death toll To be longer and higher..


Jmo..
Click to expand...

I'm trying to think of his intent and connect it to evidence of what he may have done in the days before (esp. online as it's only thing we sleuthers have access to).

Like SmoothOperator says, he probably intended to have his apartment and all belongings blown up. (I think he was mad about his having to move sans job. He'd moved from CA for school and had to leave after 1 year. It's a hassle to move, settle and then pick up and do it again so soon. Esp. as a doctoral program usually takes 5-7 years--he may have expected to stay that long. When you live in housing connected with a university, you can't just stay there until you find another job. If you leave school, you have to leave the housing. News reports have said he had 30 days. If your parents don't want you back in their house- or you don't want that-and you have just found out you're out of the program, wow, 30 days is not much time to find another job and then move there. Do you stay in Denver or head back to CA? Esp. in a tough economy. I know I need to say THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE SHOOTING UP A MOVIE THEATER AND MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE, or someone will jump all over me...I'm just trying to understand...) So, I think the "benefit" for blowing up the apt. was revenge about him having to move out (If I can't live here, no one can...) rather than just as a getaway diversion.

Seems to say he was saying "goodbye" to his old life, and planning to be in jail (as per his AFF heading).

But there is the possibility he was trying for a getaway to start a new life (but we haven't any evidence of this--an airline ticket and fake id?? I didn't see a suitcase in the back of his trunk, for example. And his laptop/computer were carried out of that apt. by police.)
 
I saw your post in the contradictions thread, DeadCat. Thank you!

I'm wondering if perhaps there were a couple of cops (on or off-duty) as security on hand prior to the movie starting, to keep the line orderly. Then maybe once the movie began, the theater manager figuring everything was under control and told them they might as well take off until the movie let out?
If they were on-duty cops, I feel pretty sure they would've left on their own once the movies got started, to patrol other areas.

JH must be crazy (j/k) because there's no way he could've known there would be no armed security inside the theater for that highly anticipated midnight opening! Well, on 2nd thought, I guess there's always a way.

All the above is hypothetical only. I hadn't heard or read this anywhere. Just thinking outloud, and posting as I think. ;)
 
Is JH wearing white and blue plaid shirt?
Click to expand...

1st I've heard about a white and plaid shirt. So, not to my knowledge. I've only heard he was dressed in all black.
 
Benny08 said:
From my experiences going to movies over the years, there are waaay too many parking spaces at these big theaters. The very backside is almost always completely empty even on busy nights. Except for the few people getting stoned trying to stay out of sight hardly anyone parks back there. Anyone who parks back there is just asking for their car to get broken into imo. Which did happen to a friend of mine last year. (and yes he was back there because he was smoking weed before his movie haha)

Also if people were parked there that night the cars would be there in the photos you see of his car.
Click to expand...

There are cars parked around his car. 2 cars. If you were sitting on the bumper of the shooters car, you would be staring at the 2 cars.

Here's the video taken right as it was all going down. Around the 6 minute mark, the chopper starts to slowly follows a police car that is going around the theater. It will slowly show 2 cars, then a dumpster, then suspects car.
Batman Movie shooting - Rare Footage! Aurora Massacre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFIRY0JUbA
Click to expand...
If you watch most of this video....it will give you a good idea on where most of the cars were at and how congested everything was around that area at that moment.

I have paused the video. It looks like there are rows of 10 parking spaces in the front. Could be maybe 10 other rows minus the grassy areas in some spaces. That means *maybe* 100 cars could park in front. I think it may be smaller than that....but you can also see where some cars are spilled over into the side parking lots. It's a bigger parking lot with more spaces.

As far as the white and plaid shirt.......maybe that's what the suspect had on before he left the theater??????
 
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