The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[kelian36]

It defies logic, doesn't it???

Yes'm it sure does.

 

[RR0004]

Regarding the adipocere and the the other decomposition related forensics . . .

They may have failed, in themselves, to be conclusive. I more or less agree with that.

Take out the adipocere and decay chemicals by themselves. Isolate them from the historical context of the "death smell" identified by Cindy, George, the tow yard guy, Lee, Casey herself, the cadaver dogs, and a handful of other people (including at least one expert witness who noted an odor of decay after the lining had been in police custody for two years) . . .

Whether that greasy stuff was adipocere or not does not render witness testimony meaningless.

It's like saying an apple is not conclusively an apple because the apple genome is incomplete or only mitochondrial. I'm gonna look at the apple, wash it off and eat it while you (the generic you) are still running forensics.

I'm gonna eat it because I am considering the entire BODY of evidence, not just the genome.

...and the dog hits?

 

[RR0004]

I had the same thought about the Pinellas 12.
Think about this Kimpage, the jurors have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. They don't want to do interviews, don't want their names released, some even moved to other cities to escape the media and the general public.

Making a quick decision about a child's murderer (mo)--not a good thing.

They should stay hidden IMO.
Be ashamed...very ashamed.

 

[askfornina]

I'd like to see someone who agrees with the verdict mention Caylee's name and to tell me how it feels that justice for this little girl wasn't served.
Just a random thought.

it feels terrible. i resent the implication here that because one agrees with the verdict, one must not care about caylee. i read the caylee memorial thread and cried just today. it sickens me to think that if casey did murder her, she is not being punished. but i recognize that the prosecution didn't meet the burden. you obviously do not agree. that will not change. i don't know what happened to caylee. i don't feel like arguing it anymore. but it is really sickening that someone would think that because i agree with the verdict, i must not care about justice for caylee. i have cried for caylee. i wish there was more evidence, but i can recognize there wasn't. a court of law isn't about the victim. i can separate myself from justice for caylee and justice in a court of law. if this somehow makes me emotionless, mean, uncaring, evil, any such thing in anyones eyes..so be it i guess.

 

[RR0004]

Agree. It's not like he would be willing to consider the possibility that the jury screwed up the deliberation process or that there is now a probable murderer free to commit murder again ( and we keep hearing that Casey needs protection! ).
No,anytime a defense wins a case ,even if a criminal walks free,AD will celebrate the WIN. Unfortunately it's the victims and the public who lose.

Yup...and look where his famous client is now.

 

[RR0004]

it feels terrible. i resent the implication here that because one agrees with the verdict, one must not care about caylee. i read the caylee memorial thread and cried just today. it sickens me to think that if casey did murder her, she is not being punished. but i recognize that the prosecution didn't meet the burden. you obviously do not agree. that will not change. i don't know what happened to caylee. i don't feel like arguing it anymore. but it is really sickening that someone would think that because i agree with the verdict, i must not care about justice for caylee. i have cried for caylee. i wish there was more evidence, but i can recognize there wasn't. a court of law isn't about the victim. i can separate myself from justice for caylee and justice in a court of law. if this somehow makes me emotionless, mean, uncaring, evil, any such thing in anyones eyes..so be it i guess.

No implication...just haven't seen it. To be honest...I had no idea what your opinion was. I just have not seen Caylee's name mentioned by those who support the verdict. As I said...random thought. Sorry if you took it personally.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I'd like to see someone who agrees with the verdict mention Caylee's name and to tell me how it feels that justice for this little girl wasn't served.
Just a random thought.

They'd blame it on the prosecution or the devious politics that interfered with due process.

See, it's the state's fault that they did not PROVE with appropriate forensic evidence that a dead Caylee was decomposing in her mother's trunk

Since these bits of evidence were failures, therefore, all the people and dogs and Casey herself who smelled the smell were thrown out with the bathwater. Or something like that. I still wish I could understand how in the heck this happened :banghead:

 

[Caligram]

Wonder what happened to the juror's notebooks. Guess they didn't take any notes on any evidence they wished to re-evaluate during their non-deliberation stage. It was all perfectly clear when they were done listening to the DT.

 

[kelian36]

They should stay hidden IMO.
Be ashamed...very ashamed.

I agree.....

 

[RR0004]

BBM....I agree. She's not special, but her family treated her as if she was more than special. FCA did not fear either CA or GA. No way was she sexually abused. As to physical abuse, my belief is that CA should have not let go during that fight on 6/15.

Which reminds me of what JA said about not bringing up the "alleged" fight...that Cindy would deny it. I also thought that the attorneys couldn't stray too far from the depos. Was the pet burial stuff ever brought up with LA in his depo? If not, why was his testimony allowed?
BTW...anyone know if Lee has gotten a job?

 

[Pattymarie]

For the LE, SA and those of us who still have good old-fashioned morals, KC's lying was the biggest tell in this case. Even with all the other amazing evidence the LE were able to gather in this "dry bones" case, KC's lying was astounding and proof of guilt.

However, the DT were very clever to take this worst part of KC and turn into nothing by using psychobabble.

I wish the SA would have seen this coming and adjusted their case accordingly.

Unfortunately, they did not, believing that the jury, supposedly formed of good, hard-working, decent Americans would also see that the astonishing lies would point to consciousness of guilt.

 

[askfornina]

No implication...just haven't seen it. To be honest...I had no idea what your opinion was. I just have not seen Caylee's name mentioned by those who support the verdict. As I said...random thought. Sorry if you took it personally.

wasn't really directing my post toward you in particular though it may have seemed that way, but rather toward the idea i stated in general. i have seen that general idea posted numerous times on this forum so i wanted to get my opinion on the matter out there.

 

[kelian36]

Wonder what happened to the juror's notebooks. Guess they didn't take any notes on any evidence they wished to re-evaluate during their non-deliberation stage. It was all perfectly clear when they were done listening to the DT.

Sadly, I'm beginning to believe that when JBaez gave the DT's OS, the jurors made up their minds right then and there, that FCA was a sexual abuse victim so she couldn't be guilty of murder.

Honestly the longer I think about it I'm simply God-smacked that HHJPerry allowed JB to open with such unfounded, misaligned, made up bs.

 

[PeteyGirl]

it feels terrible. i resent the implication here that because one agrees with the verdict, one must not care about caylee. i read the caylee memorial thread and cried just today. it sickens me to think that if casey did murder her, she is not being punished. but i recognize that the prosecution didn't meet the burden. you obviously do not agree. that will not change. i don't know what happened to caylee. i don't feel like arguing it anymore. but it is really sickening that someone would think that because i agree with the verdict, i must not care about justice for caylee. i have cried for caylee. i wish there was more evidence, but i can recognize there wasn't. a court of law isn't about the victim. i can separate myself from justice for caylee and justice in a court of law. if this somehow makes me emotionless, mean, uncaring, evil, any such thing in anyones eyes..so be it i guess.

I understand where you are coming from, agreeing with the verdict has nothing to do with grief at the death of a beautiful child.

The opportunity for justice for Caylee is out of everyone's hands now, unless Karma has hands.

Re: the BBM; like I said to RR0004, the pro-verdict people will likely blame the prosecution for the lack of justice. The anti-verdict people tend to blame the jury. In the end, it was the jury's decision, they are the final culpable party. The state had an obligation to present adequate evidence, and the defense to counter it. The jury had the obligation to decide guilt, and they chose to disregard all of the evidence because SOME of the evidence was doubtful.

 

[kelian36]

For the LE, SA and those of us who still have good old-fashioned morals, KC's lying was the biggest tell in this case. Even with all the other amazing evidence the LE were able to gather in this "dry bones" case, KC's lying was astounding and proof of guilt.

However, the DT were very clever to take this worst part of KC and turn into nothing by using psychobabble.

I wish the SA would have seen this coming and adjusted their case accordingly.

Unfortunately, they did not, believing that the jury, supposedly formed of good, hard-working, decent Americans would also see that the astonishing lies would point to consciousness of guilt.

That's it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Patty.
bbm-color by me for emphasis

 

[RANCH]

They'd blame it on the prosecution or the devious politics that interfered with due process.

See, it's the state's fault that they did not PROVE with appropriate forensic evidence that a dead Caylee was decomposing in her mother's trunk

Since these bits of evidence were failures, therefore, all the people and dogs and Casey herself who smelled the smell were thrown out with the bathwater. Or something like that. I still wish I could understand how in the heck this happened :banghead:

Thanks for a good post. What I keep seeing from people is the term "we don't know what happened".I believe this to mean that there was no eyewitness testimony of Caylees death. Apparently all other evidence is useless in determining guilt. Maybe I'm reading people wrong, but that's what I see from some of the pro verdict post's.MOO.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Opinion is all about the person having it. Facts stand alone, and you can opine about them until the cows come home and facts will remain exactly the same.

You suggest that my part in this discussion is based upon my opinion, and that is only partly true. I (hope I have) qualified when I do give an opinion. Otherwise, I am doing my best to stick to the known facts.

With due respect, I wouldn't even bother having this discussion with anyone who is just composing opinions. I mean, how uninteresting. You personally are very interesting, don't get me wrong. My point is, opinions are like hind ends, everyone has one, has the right to have however many they can come up with and it's very intrusive and controlling of me to change something as deeply personal as YOUR OPINION.

It seems to me that it is ducking responsibility, for one's own words, to qualify ALL of them with "my opinion only". What a way to avoid taking responsibility. I think the mods have made this issue clear, for instance, calling FCA a murderer after she's been acquitted is disrespectful of the justice system, we are very respectful of it around here, and ought to be qualified with "IMO".

A person who is working with the facts and evidence of the Anthony case, drawing conclusions and making statements is involving themselves in a much deeper way than "JMO".

Unless, I suppose, a person equates having an opinion with having a belief. That is confusion.

I for one have beliefs about what happened to Caylee, and I derived those beliefs (not opinions) from examining the evidence. I am discussing my beliefs here (with some opinions now and then, of course), and I thought I was discussing your beliefs with you.

If it turns out all I am discussing is your opinions, then . . . well, two things. One, your opinions sure come across as beliefs and have fooled me. You have spent a lot of time here discussing your opinions as if they were based on the facts and evidence of the case. You've spent a lot of effort positing your opinions as statements that define some of the realities around this case.

Two, you have every right to your opinions and I have NO right to get in there and challenge them. I don't like to cross people's boundaries like that. I'm sad though because you are a great sparring partner

I do enjoy sparring with you as well. I was under the impression that when a statement of fact was made, it had to be followed with a link. Whereas by stating it is my opinion, a link is not needed because it is simply an opinion. Prior to the trial, even when I stated facts, and showed the links proving the facts, I just had gotten in the habit of saying my entire post is my opinion only. Why did I get in this habit, to keep out of trouble LOL.

As for opinions and beliefs. One definition of opinion is: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge. This definition seems to have opinion and belief being one in the same. Another definition of opinion is: a belief or judgement that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. Again belief and opinion seem to be one in the same. For fun one definition of belief is : something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction, and yet again both seem to be one in the same.
I do understand what you are saying though, and yes it is a cop out for me to put the disclaimer at the bottom of each of my posts, but I don't like getting timeouts LOL.

In my post #360, the word belief could replace the word opinion, and it would not change the message I was trying to convey. That being based on the definitions above.

And so, following are some of my beliefs, that i have also derived from examining the evidence.

I believe Caylee died tragically and accidently. I believe KC was likely responsible for this tragedy through negligence (i.e. she was on the computer while Caylee slipped outside and drowned in the pool). I believe KC's actions upon finding her daughter dead were off the charts wrong. She should have called 911 period. I believe her behavior for the 31 days following the death was more indicative of a person in absolute denial of what had happened, than the actions of someone who had murdered her daughter and was trying to get away with it. I believe someone who had murdered their daughter and was trying to get away with it would NOT have placed her daughter in a wooded area less than a half mile from her home less than 20 feet from the road. What murderer in their right mind would do that (if indeed a murderer can have a right mind). Who in their right mind would drive around with a dead baby in the trunk of their car for 3 days? I believe a mother who had a mental break from reality after finding her daughter dead, during that mental break may have mindlessly wrapped her daughter the way her parents had wrapped the families dead pets, and placed her in the woods. Then in absolute denial of what had happened, went to her boyfriends house and acted like nothing had happened, because in her mind, nothing had happened. I believe the state overcharged KC with the first 3 counts. I believe the state did not present enough proof BARD to get a conviction on the first 3 counts. That is why I agree with the verdict.

 

[RR0004]

I understand where you are coming from, agreeing with the verdict has nothing to do with grief at the death of a beautiful child.

The opportunity for justice for Caylee is out of everyone's hands now, unless Karma has hands.

Re: the BBM; like I said to RR0004, the pro-verdict people will likely blame the prosecution for the lack of justice. The anti-verdict people tend to blame the jury. In the end, it was the jury's decision, they are the final culpable party. The state had an obligation to present adequate evidence, and the defense to counter it. The jury had the obligation to decide guilt, and they chose to disregard all of the evidence because SOME of the evidence was doubtful.

Oh, karma is always at work. I'm patient.

 

[logicalgirl]

They should stay hidden IMO.
Be ashamed...very ashamed.

Huh - ashamed and branded for life is what they are, whether they like it or not. Their names will eventually become public, and people will still care....

 

[LCoastMom]

Wonder what happened to the juror's notebooks. Guess they didn't take any notes on any evidence they wished to re-evaluate during their non-deliberation stage. It was all perfectly clear when they were done listening to the DT.

Now that's something I might pay money to read...do the notebooks reveal the journey to the verdict or are they just notes scribbled in the margins -

Watched jail vid today -
defendant seemed very
believable while standing
up to her abuser!

Defendant called home -
said everyone wants Caylee
back - that's all she wants
too!!!

Orlando has coyotes!

Crazy meter reader likes duct tape!!

Hmmm what movies are we watching tonight????

Ewwww SA said Pigs in a blanket!!!