The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #4

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I think it's time to see if there is anything to pursue federally. I cannot see how this verdict came to pass. I've heard explanations as to how the jury viewed the evidence and none of this makes sense to me. It's not just because I'm a Caylee supporter...I could see how the jury found OJ NG so I'm open to accepting a verdict that I don't agree with...it's just this is beyond any rational thought I have. I just do not understand it!!!
 
I have been a fan of Investigation Discovery for a very long time. I am having allot of difficulty watching it these days, especially when it comes to shows involving trials. The other night I watched "Murdered in the Moonlight", about a couple who went for a walk on a secluded Jacksonville beach. They were supposedly attacked and shot by a mugger. She died, he didn't. A grand jury indicted him for murder. The trial lasted seven days. The jury deliberated for FOUR days! They asked to review testimony. They did what they were supposed to do. They found him guilty and sentenced him to death. The judge overrode that decision and sentenced him to life. He has exhausted all of his appeals.

..he's still trying for a new trial.


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topst...rber-Seeks-New-Trial-and-Blames-His-Attorneys


July 26, 2011.

Justin Barber Wants New Trial After Guilty Verdict 5 Years Ago

According to court documents filed in October 2010, Barber claims the verdict should be thrown out and he should get a new trial, citing ineffective counsel.

First, Barber said there was a possible plea deal and that he would have taken it. He did not take the deal when his attorney - Robert Willis -- told him they'd win if the case went to trial, he said.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=212082

He claims his attorney was ineffective and that there is new evidence which needs to be admitted.

In 2006 from jail, Barber said, "Life in prison or the death penalty does not matter to me. What matters to me is that verdict was wrong."

Barber was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Barber has a new attorney and another judge has been assigned to the case.
 
I think it's time to see if there is anything to pursue federally. I cannot see how this verdict came to pass. I've heard explanations as to how the jury viewed the evidence and none of this makes sense to me. It's not just because I'm a Caylee supporter...I could see how the jury found OJ NG so I'm open to accepting a verdict that I don't agree with...it's just this is beyond any rational thought I have. I just do not understand it!!!

I'm surprised you could see how the OJ jury found him NG but cannot do the same here. Not to get into a whole OJ debate, but that trial was more slam dunk than this one ever was. At least in that one they had evidence that actually put him at the scene.
 
I'm surprised you could see how the OJ jury found him NG but cannot do the same here. Not to get into a whole OJ debate, but that trial was more slam dunk than this one ever was. At least in that one they had evidence that actually put him at the scene.

I was adjusting to working night shift during the OJ trial (I never did adjust) so I didn't follow it except in the news.

Just gotta say there is a different set of circumstances to take into account when the victim and perp is a child and mother, versus an adult woman and man. That set of circumstances revolves around CUSTODY.

When the child is in the custody of the mother (as was the case with Caylee Marie), that pretty much makes Casey being at the scene a moot point. She lied about the Nanny, which was evident earlier on, but Casey herself never volunteered another suspect until the trial. And with the lies she'd told to date, and the dearth of reasonable evidence to support George Anthony's involvement (much less responsibility), bringing her father into the mix was almost as specious as Zanny the nanny.

To me, anyway, and "most" people, that was as likely to be a lie, all things considered, as all the rest of the lies. So the only reasonable thing to fall back on was to look at Casey Anthony's BEHAVIOR, which doesn't lie.

It's just a mature, healthy thing to do when you have a liar to deal with. You look at their behavior, and don't listen to their words. In Casey's behavior (the 31 days on one hand, and day 32 forward on the other :crazy: ), you see a very sound picture of guilt, cover up and obstruction of justice. This is what people do when they do something they know is wrong and try to cover it up.
 
I'm surprised you could see how the OJ jury found him NG but cannot do the same here. Not to get into a whole OJ debate, but that trial was more slam dunk than this one ever was. At least in that one they had evidence that actually put him at the scene.
Sorry...not going there except to say that I had my doubts about LE and the Judge (amongst other things). That didn't happen here...where I seriously have my doubts about the jury.
 
I think it's time to see if there is anything to pursue federally. I cannot see how this verdict came to pass. I've heard explanations as to how the jury viewed the evidence and none of this makes sense to me. It's not just because I'm a Caylee supporter...I could see how the jury found OJ NG so I'm open to accepting a verdict that I don't agree with...it's just this is beyond any rational thought I have. I just do not understand it!!!

I understand why OJ was found guilty. Black jurors wanted to teach whites-the white communities, white cops, etc, a lesson.

Casey's NG verdict, undermines everything I thought I knew and believed about the Amercian Justice System.
 
I was adjusting to working night shift during the OJ trial (I never did adjust) so I didn't follow it except in the news.

Just gotta say there is a different set of circumstances to take into account when the victim and perp is a child and mother, versus an adult woman and man. That set of circumstances revolves around CUSTODY.

When the child is in the custody of the mother (as was the case with Caylee Marie), that pretty much makes Casey being at the scene a moot point. She lied about the Nanny, which was evident earlier on, but Casey herself never volunteered another suspect until the trial. And with the lies she'd told to date, and the dearth of reasonable evidence to support George Anthony's involvement (much less responsibility), bringing her father into the mix was almost as specious as Zanny the nanny.

To me, anyway, and "most" people, that was as likely to be a lie, all things considered, as all the rest of the lies. So the only reasonable thing to fall back on was to look at Casey Anthony's BEHAVIOR, which doesn't lie.

It's just a mature, healthy thing to do when you have a liar to deal with. You look at their behavior, and don't listen to their words. In Casey's behavior (the 31 days on one hand, and day 32 forward on the other :crazy: ), you see a very sound picture of guilt, cover up and obstruction of justice. This is what people do when they do something they know is wrong and try to cover it up.

Peteygirl, it just doesn't seem to matter how many ways or times you try to explain what you saw or heard, the jury in this case will get the free pass even though they were dead wrong in our opinion. This was a total miscarriage of justice no matter which way you cut it. I've heard a thousand times already, "if there were more charges against her, we would have found her guilty of something". That's BS in my book. They didn't know what they were doing, how to do it or what was fact from fiction. It's obvious to me that many that believe the verdict was correct don't actually argue it with fact, but rather offer another angle with a lot of "if's, and's or but's" to defend it. That's what the defense did and obviously it worked. Then, to boot, it was that same logic used by the jury. Personally, I don't buy it. The pro-verdict people are entitled to their opinion as we all are of course but when you argue the points with nothing to back it up with other than "if's, and's or but's", IMO, those are just cobwebs that need to be cleared out to see the logic that there just aren't that many questions in reality as to who did what in this case.
 
Peteygirl, it just doesn't seem to matter how many ways or times you try to explain what you saw or heard, the jury in this case will get the free pass even though they were dead wrong in our opinion. This was a total miscarriage of justice no matter which way you cut it. I've heard a thousand times already, "if there were more charges against her, we would have found her guilty of something". That's BS in my book. They didn't know what they were doing, how to do it or what was fact from fiction. It's obvious to me that many that believe the verdict was correct don't actually argue it with fact, but rather offer another angle with a lot of "if's, and's or but's" to defend it. That's what the defense did and obviously it worked. Then, to boot, it was that same logic used by the jury. Personally, I don't buy it. The pro-verdict people are entitled to their opinion as we all are of course but when you argue the points with nothing to back it up with other than "if's, and's or but's", IMO, those are just cobwebs that need to be cleared out to see the logic that there just aren't that many questions in reality as to who did what in this case.
bbm

Seems simple doesn't it Baznme?
 
I understand why OJ was found guilty. Black jurors wanted to teach whites-the white communities, white cops, etc, a lesson.

Casey's NG verdict, undermines everything I thought I knew and believed about the Amercian Justice System.
When OJ was found NG I knew that there would come a time that he would be behind bars. LE has very long memories. The man should have always kept one eye looking over his shoulder. His time was coming. Karma made sure he'd get his.
 
When OJ was found NG I knew that there would come a time that he would be behind bars. LE has very long memories. The man should have always kept one eye looking over his shoulder. His time was coming. Karma made sure he'd get his.

LOL I didn't think he would end up behind bars. I imagined he would buy his way out or influence his way out of any jams he got into after trial.
When the Karma train came whistling by and put him behind bars, I was estatic.

Funny how he didn't keep that eye open like you mentioned. I thought paranoia would make him do that. :crazy: I pray FCA lets her guard down like OJ did. ;)
 
LOL I didn't think he would end up behind bars. I imagined he would buy his way out or influence his way out of any jams he got into after trial.
When the Karma train came whistling by and put him behind bars, I was estatic.

Funny how he didn't keep that eye open like you mentioned. I thought paranoia would make him do that. :crazy: I pray FCA lets her guard down like OJ did. ;)

LOL......he couldn't buy his way out of any more jams because he ran out of money...ran out of friends. He was too self-absorbed still to be paranoid whilst trying to get his collectible "memorabilia" back, probably so he could sell it...how ironic.

The truth always comes out......either sooner OR later. Same will happen in FCA's life. There's no escape.
 
Peteygirl, it just doesn't seem to matter how many ways or times you try to explain what you saw or heard, the jury in this case will get the free pass even though they were dead wrong in our opinion.

It's like being a medical examiner . . . the person is dead (the verdict is out), but the cause of death is the issue now. I can see the "autopsy" being valuable to individuals or groups seeking change to improve the functions of juries in the future. It's not just that the verdict (NG on all counts) was "wrong", it's how the jurists got there that led to the wrong verdict. Even if the verdict were Guilty, if they got there via misunderstanding/misapplication of the jury instructions, it would still be wrong.

This was a total miscarriage of justice no matter which way you cut it. I've heard a thousand times already, "if there were more charges against her, we would have found her guilty of something". That's BS in my book.

It's BS because what other charges were there? It sounded to me like a deflection of responsibility. Again, it was the prosecution's fault they were unable to reach a decent verdict. Pffffft.

Sure prosecutions can present bad cases. But THIS one did not.

They didn't know what they were doing, how to do it or what was fact from fiction. It's obvious to me that many that believe the verdict was correct don't actually argue it with fact, but rather offer another angle with a lot of "if's, and's or but's" to defend it. That's what the defense did and obviously it worked. Then, to boot, it was that same logic used by the jury. Personally, I don't buy it.

In all fairness to the jury, they had a JOB ahead of them, to separate fact from fiction in this case. Not to absolve them at all, they still had the responsibility to determine the difference. It troubles me that they did not, or could not. I wonder what lack causes this inability?

BBM: That is what I've seen, too. The pro-verdict folks merely continue the "if's" of the defense team, which were not backed up by any verified facts, ever. The jury should have known better, period.

The pro-verdict people are entitled to their opinion as we all are of course but when you argue the points with nothing to back it up with other than "if's, and's or but's", IMO, those are just cobwebs that need to be cleared out to see the logic that there just aren't that many questions in reality as to who did what in this case.

The last BBM bit is, to me, so important that it should be in giant font :)

In reality, every day reality that we all live in, there just aren't that many POSSIBILITIES that could have reasonably happened on Planet Earth.

It's not really true that "possibilities are limitless". All possibilities do not have the same weight. I've seen too much overly relative thinking here, as if all the possibilities have the same importance, and they just don't. We're talking about things that actually happened. Not a hypothetical.

A person can choose to think what they prefer to think, but to expect respect (for the thought, the person behind it should always be respected) is unrealistic.

Until a pro-verdict person is able to put forth an alternative accounting, that takes into account a reasonable amount of evidence or discovery from the available pool, my views are set. I've been wrong about lots of stuff, and gone back on conclusions aplenty. I respect any attempt to do so, as long as it isn't more quasi-defense team kerflunkling :fence:
 
When OJ was found NG I knew that there would come a time that he would be behind bars. LE has very long memories. The man should have always kept one eye looking over his shoulder. His time was coming. Karma made sure he'd get his.

Here's what I think about this.

OJ (in his own mind) never did anything wrong. Why should he keep one eye looking over his shoulder?

On the other hand, he KNEW he did something wrong, and did keep an eye out, but didn't keep the eye open near often enough. Why should he? He got acquitted. The Universe seemed to bow to his needs. The Powers That Be got his back. Obviously. Besides, he was smarter than everyone else, obviously. What's to worry about a bunch of useless idiots who'll never dream of being as good as him at anything?

Narcissists consistently underestimate everyone around them, because they are so much better. At everything. That's how these folks get caught, they are so sure they can't be caught that covering their tracks, or lying low just doesn't occur to them.

I think that's what is meant when we say "Karma". It's not so much a punishment but a natural consequence.
 
LOL......he couldn't buy his way out of any more jams because he ran out of money...ran out of friends. He was too self-absorbed still to be paranoid whilst trying to get his collectible "memorabilia" back, probably so he could sell it...how ironic.

The truth always comes out......either sooner OR later. Same will happen in FCA's life. There's no escape.

I admire the way you think and post!!!
 
Here's what I think about this.

OJ (in his own mind) never did anything wrong. Why should he keep one eye looking over his shoulder?

On the other hand, he KNEW he did something wrong, and did keep an eye out, but didn't keep the eye open near often enough. Why should he? He got acquitted. The Universe seemed to bow to his needs. The Powers That Be got his back. Obviously. Besides, he was smarter than everyone else, obviously. What's to worry about a bunch of useless idiots who'll never dream of being as good as him at anything?

Narcissists consistently underestimate everyone around them, because they are so much better. At everything. That's how these folks get caught, they are so sure they can't be caught that covering their tracks, or lying low just doesn't occur to them.

I think that's what is meant when we say "Karma". It's not so much a punishment but a natural consequence.
The Universe is one amazing place.
 
I have followed this case from day 1, line for line, word for word. I have read every letter of every doc dump, I have seen and read every deposition and every media appearance ever made from everyone involved. How do I feel about the verdict? The bigger question is how do I feel about our justice system and our culture here in America... 100% apathetic. I'm done, spent, stick a fork in me, The point of no return. We are in deep trouble as a nation, as a people. Big flipping deal that FCA is voted the most hated American... what will it last... a month? Until Katy Perry divorces or when Kat Von D hooks up with another loser or what? I am sick of it all.
 
I have followed this case from day 1, line for line, word for word. I have read every letter of every doc dump, I have seen and read every deposition and every media appearance ever made from everyone involved. How do I feel about the verdict? The bigger question is how do I feel about our justice system and our culture here in America... 100% apathetic. I'm done, spent, stick a fork in me, The point of no return. We are in deep trouble as a nation, as a people. Big flipping deal that FCA is voted the most hated American... what will it last... a month? Until Katy Perry divorces or when Kat Von D hooks up with another loser or what? I am sick of it all.

Take a deep breath Pip. This isn't over by a long shot. I have been waiting for five years for a break in a case that occured in my home town. 32 yr. old Brandy Hall disappeared one night after leaving work.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7035313&postcount=54"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Brandy Hall: Firefighter, 32, Palm Bay, 17 Aug 2006[/ame]


TM from Equusearch had a team come over and look for her several times but to no avail. Just yesterday there was a news article that came out there are new detectives, a new team working with the FBI and they've already made contact with their short list of possible POI's. I check every morning to see if there's been an arrest and I am confident it will happen. Sometimes, it seems hopeless when you have no resolution especially having followed a case as closely as you have with this one. FCA and everyone that lied for her cannot hide from the truth. The inevitable will happen, it will come out. Hang onto that hope, if for no one else but, Caylee.
 
I have followed this case from day 1, line for line, word for word. I have read every letter of every doc dump, I have seen and read every deposition and every media appearance ever made from everyone involved. How do I feel about the verdict? The bigger question is how do I feel about our justice system and our culture here in America... 100% apathetic. I'm done, spent, stick a fork in me, The point of no return. We are in deep trouble as a nation, as a people. Big flipping deal that FCA is voted the most hated American... what will it last... a month? Until Katy Perry divorces or when Kat Von D hooks up with another loser or what? I am sick of it all.

You're right about society moving on to something else eventually. As we have seen time and time again, our society has a way of forgiving or forgetting even those that are despised the most as time goes on. Best example is someone like OJ, who over time became more of a punchline to a bad joke then actually 'hated'. Another example is MJ. Most people think he was some kind of pedophile but when he died, the guy was celebrated like you can't imagine.

I don't know if I believe in such an intangible thing as 'karma'. Usually it's one's actions that cause them issues down the road. IMO it wasn't 'karma' that got OJ back in jail, it was him being an idiot. Usually people who make mistakes in the past are prone to make mistakes in the future one way or the other. And I'm sure if and when that happens to her, society will laugh at it and move on, similar to what happened with OJ in Vegas.
 
I'm done, spent, stick a fork in me, The point of no return.

pip (and all), this may at first seem O/T but please indulge and excuse me for quoting myself here. I had originally posted this on the 14th on another thread.

Quote: ...... This is such great news that I simply have to share it! It is the biggest news in Australia as we speak at this minute and is the story of a young boy named Daniel Morcombe who went missing (just four miles from my own house actually (when my own kids were around the same age - a very worrying time for our community)) eight years ago.
It just proves that the search for justice must NEVER BE ABANDONED and gives hope that, although Caylee's trial may be over, somehow, someday that justice WILL come.
http://www.news.com.au/national/susp...-1226114574784 :Unquote

The police (and the public) had been RELENTLESS in the search for an answer for this good and decent family, and the atmosphere here now is electric. We had waited so long for this news.
My point is, never despair pip, never throw in the towel ... their day comes.
__________________
 
I have followed this case from day 1, line for line, word for word. I have read every letter of every doc dump, I have seen and read every deposition and every media appearance ever made from everyone involved. How do I feel about the verdict? The bigger question is how do I feel about our justice system and our culture here in America... 100% apathetic. I'm done, spent, stick a fork in me, The point of no return. We are in deep trouble as a nation, as a people. Big flipping deal that FCA is voted the most hated American... what will it last... a month? Until Katy Perry divorces or when Kat Von D hooks up with another loser or what? I am sick of it all.

Me too. When there are people that try to defend her and explain the murderers actions, when the murderer won't even do it herself, it makes me worry for my children. What kind of person accepts her actions as normal and ok? I don't care if she was abused every day of her sorry life. There is no excuse and no logic for this entire flippen mess.
 
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