The Whites Party Photos and also When exactly did JBR die??

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I understand what you mean, I have 2 little girls and like to have things match. I think that the ponytail she wore to the party was her sides and front up and the second ponytail was put in after she got home as she got ready for bed. I don't believe she was asleep after getting home. Maybe she did fall asleep in the car, but I think she was awake from the car into the house. JR said he read her a book, and PR said she sang her a lullaby so I think she was awake for that. Unless they made that up to make the night seem "normal." MOO

The Ramsey's went to drop off gifts to a few friends after the party. There was people that told the cops that they saw jonbenet sleep in the back of the car. I think she was sleep in the car and then woke up either before they got home or when they removed her from the car. Burke told investigators that jonbenet walked into the house and up the spiral stair case. I think they lied about her being sleep
 
I think they lied too

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."
 
I think they lied too

Ambitioned,
ITA. The R's version of events is right out of a Sherlock Holmes story. Including PR's account of putting Burke's long johns on JonBenet because she could not find her pajama bottoms.

The pajama bottoms were likely with her size-6 underwear: stuffed into someones pocket?


I don't know about anyone else but that bit about Burke's long johns is so obvious, I want to tell everyone.

.
 
The Ramsey's went to drop off gifts to a few friends after the party. There was people that told the cops that they saw jonbenet sleep in the back of the car. I think she was sleep in the car and then woke up either before they got home or when they removed her from the car. Burke told investigators that jonbenet walked into the house and up the spiral stair case. I think they lied about her being sleep

The fact that Burke stated she walked up the stairs is very telling for sure. Why would he say that if it weren't true? Having raised a couple of kids myself I know that carrying a six year old in to the house and putting them to bed is all but impossible. John would certainly have had to stop at the front door to remove his wet boots and probably his coat. He would have had to put her down to do this. I didn't see JBs coat and boots in her room, so presumably she was disrobed at the front door as well, or her stuff was carried down from her room. But these details are absent from the Ramseys story. Why? And why didn't the interrogators ever push them for more details???


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<<respectfully snipped for relevance>>

However brilliant Lou Smit's career may have been, I have difficulty getting over his ability to commit fraud in order to get a job in Law Enforcement. After LS left the unsolved murder of JonBenét, he hooked up with the producers of Haunting Evidence on trutv. LS guides the two psychics to the R home and also to the White's home as he describes the circumstantial evidence to them. The end result of the psychics' televised involvement was an implication that a security guard from Access Graphics may have committed the heinous crime.

From Wikipedia ~ "Smit boasted that he "never lost a homicide case" in a career in which he worked on more than 200 murder cases in which a suspect had been arrested and tried for their crime."

This detective who was called out of retirement to assist on the JBR murder investigation, sought psychics to help him to solve the case. Really? One of the psychics claimed to have recorded JonBenét's voice outside of her home on 15th Street. What a farce! JMO

Lou Smit lied to get into LE. Furthermore, he sought psychics to further promote his "intruder" theory. Those are not attributes of a "remarkable reputation". JMO

Having tried various businesses and failing, Smit prayed for a solution and saw as an answer from God a call he received from a cousin who served on the Colorado Springs Department suggesting that he apply to serve.[2] Smit fell just short of the department's minimum height of five feet and nine inches, but was able to join the force in 1966 after he had his cousin hit him over the skull with a nightstick, allowing him to meet the height minimum when he was remeasured the following day with the bump on his head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Smit

http://www.trutv.com/shows/haunting_evidence/index.html?pid=Am__y4p9FG_wGRcfjJJFIOAaM4rmGFCa

Haunting Evidence threads:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?89163-Haunting-Evidence-JonBenet-Ramsey

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...unting-Evidence-on-JBR-tonight-Saturday/page2

MMHOO

In reading back through this thread, this one deserved a Great Big Bump. Thanks, DeDee!

Lyin' Lou was a fraud in more ways than one. Makes me want to go back and look at some of those cases he claims to have solved before he retired. I really need to stay away from that temptation. I'm afraid I'd never return from the abyss. But still.. to think there may be people wrongfully convicted on fabricated evidence just eats at me. hmm...

:bump:
 
The fact that Burke stated she walked up the stairs is very telling for sure. Why would he say that if it weren't true? Having raised a couple of kids myself I know that carrying a six year old in to the house and putting them to bed is all but impossible. John would certainly have had to stop at the front door to remove his wet boots and probably his coat. He would have had to put her down to do this. I didn't see JBs coat and boots in her room, so presumably she was disrobed at the front door as well, or her stuff was carried down from her room. But these details are absent from the Ramseys story. Why? And why didn't the interrogators ever push them for more details???


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Hey Andreww.....

Her boots can be seen on the floor in that video from radaronline and as far as the jacket goes, it was mentioned somehwere years ago(the transcripts?) that her coat was found in the backseat of their car.

I also believe Burke that she walked into the house.
 
I have never seen the police reports written by the BPD of what the Ramseys said to them when questioned that morning at the home, separately, I believe.

I think we only have that information from the books written and what the Ramseys later said in their various interviews and wrote in their book.

I believe Thomas wrote that John told an officer that morning while they were in the house awaiting the ransom call that he read to JB. Later John denied saying this.

Patsy is reported in Thomas' book to have told LE that morning that JB was wearing the red turtleneck when she went to bed, but Patsy later denied ever saying that, as well.

I don't think Thomas would have lied about the reports. Of course, the police officers writing the reports could have mistaken what the Ramseys were saying, or the Ramseys could have actually given differing versions of those events that morning.

I doubt we'll ever know exactly what the truth is.

But it's pretty important to know what a kidnap victim was wearing when kidnapped, especially a child. So the most logical thing I can imagine is Patsy went into one of her long, winding stories about what JB was wearing and mentioned the red turtleneck, possibly with the story we've now heard about the argument they had over her wearing it to the White's party the night before. Maybe Patsy didn't get to "finish" the story as no doubt people were moving around and things were confused. Or maybe the police officer didn't get the full story written, was interrupted, etc.

Remember that red turtleneck was found on the vanity in JB's bathroom, wet and wadded up.

All to say that a "best guess" is often what we have in this case because the Ramseys changed their stories many times that we can see ourselves.

So JR and Patsy stuck to a final story that JB was asleep and carried to bed. Burke says she walked. Obviously if she was asleep, JR wouldn't have read to her. He later said he read HIMSELF when he went to bed and maybe that's what cops got confused.

The most accurate thing we can take away from this is the Ramsey's stories were often inconsistent and continue to be to this day.

That's a huge red flag because the truth doesn't change.

Truth doesn't change but memories do. Each time we remember something we are remembering our last memory of the event.

If something traumatic happens, we may fantasize about how we would do it differently next time or if we got a "do-over." This can make stories change over time. It's why it is so important to get witness statements ASAP after an event.


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JBR's coat was in the car.

If not for the pineapple, I would think that JBR was injured at the Stine's house since everything that happened after the visit is in question due to the R's lies. There was not one thing they could remember with any clarity, from the time they left the party, to the time they got home, to who did what, to what clothes they dressed the child in for bed.

If they were drunk, maybe it would make sense.
 
The Ramsey's went to drop off gifts to a few friends after the party. There was people that told the cops that they saw jonbenet sleep in the back of the car. I think she was sleep in the car and then woke up either before they got home or when they removed her from the car. Burke told investigators that jonbenet walked into the house and up the spiral stair case. I think they lied about her being sleep


Well , given their track record with being
honest , it would be a safe bet that they lied ..
Welcome to Websleuths !
 
elannia,
Obviously something happened. Those that promote a PDI consider that a disagreement between PR and JonBenet led to her death?

For me the big hint is in the staging, no video, no pictures, its Christmas Day and JonBenet is nowhere to be seen, and like any girl she wants to be in that photograph, but it all went quiet?


Sadly bad stuff took place and the parents did their best to cover it all up including pictures of JonBenet wearing whatever she wore that day and anything she said?

.

Too ironic that the little girl who was constantly in the cameras eye was not photographed or video on Christmas ....riiiigggghhhhhtttt !
 
It just doesn't. Lets just say that I am well aware of what it is like to have holidays in an affluent house hold and there are holidays where we just didn't.

This is not anything more than no pictures. You can not make something not existing some thing bad. It just does not exist. Why? Who knows? If anything if they had pictures they would show them because it shows probably a good holiday!

So because I did not take pics of my kids at the fair a few weeks ago, It means something? Nope. Just didn't.


I get the whole not taking pics of your kids at the fair ..but Christmas ? As big a deal as Patsy made of Christmas ?
That's a hard one for me to imagine .
 
Too ironic that the little girl who was constantly in the cameras eye was not photographed or video on Christmas ....riiiigggghhhhhtttt !

cubbeegirl,
I agree. I think it was on Dr Phil where they showed BR being interviewed that BR said words to the effect, he took pictures of JonBenet opening her gifts?

Am I misremembering that?


.
 
cubbeegirl,
I agree. I think it was on Dr Phil where they showed BR being interviewed that BR said words to the effect, he took pictures of JonBenet opening her gifts?

Am I misremembering that?


.

If you are misremembering , then so am I my friend !
 
If you are misremembering , then so am I my friend !

cubbeegirl,
That's interesting. I wonder what happened to those photos? I wonder if the police have them in an evidence cage somewhere?

.
 
cubbeegirl,
That's interesting. I wonder what happened to those photos? I wonder if the police have them in an evidence cage somewhere?

.

I wonder as well, hopefully one day James Kolar will be back on Tricia's show and we can ask him !
 
Well, there are 3 photos that we know of from Christmas morning and surely could be others but the R's 'forgot' to charge the battery of their video camera in time for Christmas. On the same roll of film, there were shots of the hallway off of the kitchen - just random shots of nothing in particular.

Christmas Day. No video camera. JR at the airport for 4 hours, no time for JBR to ride her new bike although BR remembers her sitting on it, and PR dying her hair. A late breakfast and no one remembers another meal until the Whites' party.

Not like any Christmas Day I ever had.
 
Well, there are 3 photos that we know of from Christmas morning and surely could be others but the R's 'forgot' to charge the battery of their video camera in time for Christmas. On the same roll of film, there were shots of the hallway off of the kitchen - just random shots of nothing in particular.

Christmas Day. No video camera. JR at the airport for 4 hours, no time for JBR to ride her new bike although BR remembers her sitting on it, and PR dying her hair. A late breakfast and no one remembers another meal until the Whites' party.

Not like any Christmas Day I ever had.

TeaTime,
Sure is a curious case. It might be the photos exist but are not considered significant, i.e. just Christmas ephemera?

I wonder what the parents did not want anyone to see?

.
 
I wonder if Burke was unhappy about not getting a bicycle? Something shady was going on with the bycycle story. We may never know. I suspect it somehow threw Burke's resentment off the charts.
 
The Ramsey's went to drop off gifts to a few friends after the party. There was people that told the cops that they saw jonbenet sleep in the back of the car. I think she was sleep in the car and then woke up either before they got home or when they removed her from the car. Burke told investigators that jonbenet walked into the house and up the spiral stair case. I think they lied about her being sleep

Do you have a source other than the Ramsey's who claimed to see her asleep? I had looked into this specifically a while ago and unless I'm remembering wrong there was nothing from any of those visited. Here is a quote from the Steins, their last known stop:

"They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

"ALL the same". "BUBBLY." Doesn't sound like sleeping in the car. I'm assuming the bit about "where they were going" is about either Michigan or the Big Red Boat.
 
Only JR and PR stated that JBR was asleep or 'zonked' out. If not for the pineapple, I would think she was injured at the Stine's.

Neither parent could remember if JBR went into the house or even up to the house.

They are full of carp. They couldn't remember what happened in their house or in their car on the way home a mere 8 hours before the police arrived at their front door. BS!
 

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