The window and the lights

[Peepers]

Im perplexed by why LE feels the need to focus on the window when the door was open? Another thing that just popped in my head. If I forgot to lock the door ONCE, Im not sure I would be so sure I forgot to lock it. I mean how many times have you thought you left your iron on or curling iron plugged in or windows open when you leave. I might be thinking "did I leave the door unlocked?", but Im not sure I would KNOW, oh yeah, I left the door unlocked. Im not sure if Im explaining it the right way, but I find that kind of odd.
And yes, why would an intruder go in the front window?? Lets say the intruder went in the window and out the door, leaving it unlocked. Wouldnt the Mom be pondering in her mind if she left it unlocked? Or why would she even say that if the window was open and could have been the point of entry? Why is she so sure she left it unlocked?
This is just weird. Unless the window has nothing to do with this at all.

 

[Kamille]

Im perplexed by why LE feels the need to focus on the window when the door was open? Another thing that just popped in my head. If I forgot to lock the door ONCE, Im not sure I would be so sure I forgot to lock it. I mean how many times have you thought you left your iron on or curling iron plugged in or windows open when you leave. I might be thinking "did I leave the door unlocked?", but Im not sure I would KNOW, oh yeah, I left the door unlocked. Im not sure if Im explaining it the right way, but I find that kind of odd.
And yes, why would an intruder go in the front window?? Lets say the intruder went in the window and out the door, leaving it unlocked. Wouldnt the Mom be pondering in her mind if she left it unlocked? Or why would she even say that if the window was open and could have been the point of entry? Why is she so sure she left it unlocked?
This is just weird. Unless the window has nothing to do with this at all.

I think that LE has convinced DB that the window was not the point of entry so she's admitting that she really doesn't remember whether she locked it or not and since JI has stated that it was unlocked when he got home, she has conceded that maybe she did forget to lock it.

As you've mentioned in your post, sometimes it really is hard to remember what you did or didn't do with regards to locking doors, unplugging irons etc.

MOO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok - new day - clear head - fresh set of eyes.

First thing that came to mind was this:

It is dad that said all the lights were on and the door was unlocked. He woke mom up - and told her Lisa was gone and all the lights were on and door unlocked.

IDK what that means or if it's important or not - but it was dad that said he came home to all the lights on, door unlocked and screen pushed in.

 

[Codger]

I think that LE has convinced DB that the window was not the point of entry so she's admitting that she really doesn't remember whether she locked it or not and since JI has stated that it was unlocked when he got home, she has conceded that maybe she did forget to lock it.

As you've mentioned in your post, sometimes it really is hard to remember what you did or didn't do with regards to locking doors, unplugging irons etc.

MOO

I have lost count of the # of times I've turned around, gone back home to make sure I'd shut the coffee pot off. I bought one of those suckers that shuts itself off + solved that headache! If you're in the habit of doing something every night, locking the door, it'd be very difficult to remember that you forgot it one time. I think being told by JI that he found it that way, convinced her she had to have forgotten.

However this whole car break in the month before - was there a spare house key in the car stolen? Did they hide a key outside for emergency lock out? Did anyone else have a spare key? Had the locks been changed anytime since JI owned the home + split with his ex? Could someone have come in another way + unlocked it as they exited through it? I don't mean the window necessarily, but they had a garage under the house + what looked like sliding glass doors beside it, on the lower level rear. Were these confirmed to be locked up? Did anyone aside from the teen have the garage access code? Was this for the underneath garage or the outbuilding / garage?

 

[Codger]

Doesn't make any sense, imo. No intruder enters a house under the cover of darkness to abduct a child, and then goes around turning on all the lights. Unless, of course, this is the dumbest kidnapper in the history of kidnapping.

MOO, and all that jazz.

I agree if the intruder is a stranger. Someone else (I'm so sorry I forget who or in what thread!) posted a thought on this - what if the intruder was known to the family? Wouldn't it be safer to have a light on in case someone woke up? Reasoning - if they're caught in the act, they could excuse being in the house for some reason, but caught creeping around in the dark? Not so much.

Otherwise yes, dumbest or most brazen kidnapping stranger in history.

DB said she turned off lights on her way to bed. I think it's possible one of the kids might have turned them on if they got up in the night. Thinking like that, if anyone was a sleepwalker, could also have opened the front door.

 

[Codger]

Ok - new day - clear head - fresh set of eyes.

First thing that came to mind was this:

It is dad that said all the lights were on and the door was unlocked. He woke mom up - and told her Lisa was gone and all the lights were on and door unlocked.

IDK what that means or if it's important or not - but it was dad that said he came home to all the lights on, door unlocked and screen pushed in.

IMO it's important because the recollection isn't coming from her memory + she was the only adult home at bedtime. Even if she remembers it that way, it's tainted, because he planted that thought before she had a chance to recall on her own. It's easy to alter someone's recall that way, imo. If you ask me what my spouse wore yesterday, I might say ABC, but if you say didn't your spouse wear BCE yesterday, I might say oh yeah that's right.

JI tells her the screen was bent in the open window, then she says she left the window open + breaks down in tears. I wonder just what tone he approached her with at 3:30am from a presumably sound sleep state she would've been in.

It's only his word that he found things all this way. What exactly transpired in the 34 minutes he was home before he called 911 from the phone in his pocket? I can imagine...

 

[eleni777]

IMO it's important because the recollection isn't coming from her memory + she was the only adult home at bedtime. Even if she remembers it that way, it's tainted, because he planted that thought before she had a chance to recall on her own. It's easy to alter someone's recall that way, imo. If you ask me what my spouse wore yesterday, I might say ABC, but if you say didn't your spouse wear BCE yesterday, I might say oh yeah that's right.

JI tells her the screen was bent in the open window, then she says she left the window open + breaks down in tears. I wonder just what tone he approached her with at 3:30am from a presumably sound sleep state she would've been in.

It's only his word that he found things all this way. What exactly transpired in the 34 minutes he was home before he called 911 from the phone in his pocket? I can imagine...

BBM: especially if that person was buzzed from box wine when they went to bed...

 

[keeponsearching]

Do they have another vehicle in driveway?

 

[Marah]

Maybe they found some DNA or some kind of evidence on or near the window and that is why they were checking it out so closely?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The more I think about things, the more convinced I am that "mom" saw an opportunity to party hearty while "dad" worked his first overnight.

Box of wine (who was it for?), open window that normally isn't open (smoking?), window screen pushed in (someone tipsy trying to shut window and maybe fell against it?), lights all left on ( too tipsy to bother turning them off?). Maybe something awful happened to the baby, dad came home and found a bad situation, and they BOTH need to cover it up or risk losing their other kids?

I don't know. Just some random thoughts.

 

[Codger]

BBM: especially if that person was buzzed from box wine when they went to bed...

I've bought wine many times + never drank a drop of it the same evening. Do we have any way to know if she drank any of this, even one glass or if it even came home with her? Maybe it went home with her driver? Maybe it was for another time, but she picked it up while she was at the store already. If one has no driver's license, one tends to consolidate trips + purchase things all at once. I just can't jump to the conclusion that because she bought wine = she drank any of it immediately or that she drank enough to impair her judgement, memory + so on.

 

[eleni777]

I've bought wine many times + never drank a drop of it the same evening. Do we have any way to know if she drank any of this, even one glass or if it even came home with her? Maybe it went home with her driver? Maybe it was for another time, but she picked it up while she was at the store already. If one has no driver's license, one tends to consolidate trips + purchase things all at once. I just can't jump to the conclusion that because she bought wine = she drank any of it immediately or that she drank enough to impair her judgement, memory + so on.

I wasn't say that she did..the key word in my statement was 'IF'.
I was responding to the poster that said Jeremy told her how he found the house/lights/windows when he got home and summized that
IF she was tipsy from drinking the boxed wine when she went to bed she might not remember clearly if she turned off all the lights and shut the windows and locked the doors...just my personal theory.

 

[marge_rita]

I wish LE would tell us if they found said wine box at the home of D and J.
I want to know if it was found and if it was empty, partially empty, etc.
I'm leaning towards mom leaving lights on and windows open to air out the house so to speak before dad got home.

imo

 

[Kat]

Deborah not remembering if she locked the door isn't of real significance IMHO.

It was stated that Jeremy came home and the door was unlocked.

If intruder came in through window and exited out front door, I don't reason that the intruder would lock the front door behind him/her.

Just a thought. JMHO.

 

[marge_rita]

kat, I agree. I'm also thinking real hard about a kidnapper-phone thief-going to a house that was well lit.


imo

 

[EllaMae]

All IMHO...

I think the phones being gone and the the lights being on were for 2 different reasons....
The phones were taken to delay anyone from calling 911....and to prevent anyone from calling while the perp/s was in the house.

I think the lights possibly were left on to taunt them, and to make sure they noticed the baby was gone as soon as possible. I wonder if this isn't directed at Deborah as much as it is really directed towards Jeremy.

 

[Kamille]

I wonder how quiet this street is and whether anyone drove down it at any point in the evening after DB said she went to bed and noticed the house lit up or in darkness. LE keep saying they have nothing so perhaps not as this would give them some kind of timeline.

Did anyone notice what kind of window coverings are on the windows? Would neighbours even notice if most of the lights were on in the house or do they have some heavy drapes or blinds covering them?

I also wonder what JI means by "most of the lights" in the house. Assuming that there were no lights on in the three bedrooms, there is only three other rooms and perhaps a bathroom where there could be lights on. Were there multiple lights turned on in each room? One overhead light in each? I thought DB said she left two lights on. Well that's two out of the possible 4 rooms that she did leave lights on in. How many lights did JI say were on?

MOO

 

[Chewy]

I wonder if the father is the one who is lying. She's home and sleeping and to me her sleeping with the little boy speaks to a very natural situation. If she did something to her child she'd probably put both boys in their beds in order to sort out the mess. She wouldn't have him next to her, I don't know, I have three sons and sleep with my youngest in my bed very often. But if something went down in the house I'd put him in his bed.


I think what doesn't make sense is the father saying that the lights were all on in the house. The only person this serves, if you think about it, is the FATHER. Why? Because he'd need a reason to wake up his wife and ask her what was going on. If someone took the baby and did something with the baby, then she's sleeping he comes home and finds the baby gone and starts freaking out it, wouldn't make sense. He'd not immediately leap to a problem, maybe the baby was with her in the bed etc.

So the only person it helps to have the lights on is the father. He comes home the lights need to be on so he can "see" the window pushed in and also get a hinky feeling and go to wake up his wife.

It's almost as if he didn't want to be the one who found her missing. And that lends itself to him kind of wanting an "alibi of discovery." Why would he check on the boys and not the baby? He'd have to walk past the baby's room. You come home, you see the window pushed in, front door open and the lights all on and you walk PAST the baby's room to check on the boys and then go past it again to go to the wife?

He also said he saw the boys in the bed, which he didn't because one of them was with her. So obviously he didn't check on the boys at all. He didn't check on anyone. He came in and woke her up and said "what is going on" and made sure she was with him when they discovered the baby missing.

So what I see here is this.

He did something. Came home turned on all the lights and bumped the window. He took the cell phones as well. He got rid of the baby because he wants out of the relationship with the woman, having one child already he probably sees he's going to get stuck again. He dumps the baby and the cell phones. Comes home and turns on all the lights and then goes in and asks her WHY all the lights are on. He puts it on her right from the start, she's freaking out and feeling guilty because apparently she slept through something this severe.

I'm thinking the cops might be leaning on her to try to break him. Because it doesn't benefit this woman at all to turn on all the lights. The only person whose story it helps is the husband.


And I do agree that the Casey Anthony case has given rise to a lot of child murderers who now realize that if they don't find the body they can't convict. A 10 month old baby is ridiculously easy to get rid of and conceal. Just suffocate the baby and wrap the baby in plastic and throw it in a dumpster. It's sad.

 

[LisaB]

I don't see how anybody could go through the window since the screen was still on it and it was bent. I suspect the screen got bent some other time by boys throwing a ball or something. Who would push a screen *into* the window if they were trying to get it off? I think the window is a red herring.

I think whoever took the baby is someone who lives in the house.

When I first movd into my house, I only had one key. One morning, I locked it in the house when I was leaving for work at 7am. Luckily, my next-door neighbor was letting her dog out to piddle and allowed me to go through her house, out the front window, and across to my own roof to get into my second floor window. I knew I had left it unlocked, so the only issue was the screen.

I really do not know what I was thinking as I tugged and yanked at the screen (except the possibility of ending up lying immodestly on the ground with the screen in my hands, while wearing a dress). Eventually I got it "twisted" enough to pop out, went inside, and straightened out the metal frame and put it back in place.

Later it occurred to me that the safer, quieter, and cheaper-to-fix option would have been to cut through the screening (cheap to replace) instead of risking damaging the metal frame which would probably have been more difficult to match and more costly to fix.

I can imagine someone trying to do what I tried and remove the frame and screen intact. Failing that, they tried the door and found it open. Maybe.

 

[Abby Normal]

This is a good question. The open vs. closed window would not be obvious at night from the outside. Once inside, it is not on his route to the bedroom or kitchen. Why did he even notice it at 4AM?

Maybe the lights on led him to believe DB was up and playing online? That's what I do when I can't sleep...