The window and the lights

[azwriter]

Good morning.

I've been thinking about poor Lisa and am having trouble falling asleep because of her. I've thought long and hard about the lights and have a real issue with them. Please forgive me if this has been already mentioned but it's almost impossible for me to read every post.

If DB did leave the door unlocked and the lights on when she went to bed, I find it difficult to believe a stranger would have come into the house. If the intruder turned on the lights, I'm wondering why the baby monitor didn't pick it up. Although I'm sure I have a different brand of monitor, I can hear my husband through our monitor typing three rooms away.

In my heart, I want to believe that DB and JI didn't have anything to do with her disappearance but I'm having a hard time. I'm also wondering when JI was scheduled to work that night. Was it days in advance? that day? did he volunteer to go in at the last minute? or uncharacteristically volunteer to stay late?

I appreciate your post Ginny because it asks questions I'm pondering too. I am having problems with a stranger entering the house also. I would think a stranger would enter only if he or she knew the father wasn't home and the mother was there alone. I can't imagine anyone entering a strange place for robbery or kidnapping without first casing the place in advance and for sure knowing what they were in for once they entered the house.

I imagine for a person to feel "safe" entering a home, I would think a lot would have to be in place like: doors and window unlocked or left open, lights OUT or very little lighting so as not be seen from someone outside the home, like a neighbor up late at night and an assurance that the person inside would not be easily woken up and no barking dogs.

Bottom line for me is that a person would not attemp entering a home for a crime unless they were pretty sure there was only a slight or no chance they would be caught or confronted once they were in the house.

I'm not a criminal. I don't do breaking and entering, but I think I'd need certain conditions I felt secure with before I attemped a kidnapping or theft.
jmo

 

[w1df10wr]

Thank you to Wise Old Owl, who posted the list of what lights were on in [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7247895&postcount=265"]Live MSM coverage on Baby Lisa October 18 2011 [/ame] post #265, page #11.

Lamp in Living Room
2 lights of some kind in kitchen - my guess would be ceiling
Accent Lights & a pumpkin in computer room.

:waitasec: Those are all at the front of the house. This makes me think it was someone acquainted with the family. Possibly a former friend they haven't seen in awhile?

 

[Kamille]

Thank you to Wise Old Owl, who posted the list of what lights were on in Live MSM coverage on Baby Lisa October 18 2011 post #265, page #11.

Lamp in Living Room
2 lights of some kind in kitchen - my guess would be ceiling
Accent Lights & a pumpkin in computer room.

:waitasec: Those are all at the front of the house. This makes me think it was someone acquainted with the family. Possibly a former friend they haven't seen in awhile?

I still maintain that the 3 kids (8,6 & 4yr old) were running amok in the house while the ladies were having "adult time" with the box o wine on the porch. If Lisa went down at 6:40 and the neighbour left at 10:30 then thats a pretty long movie they were calmly watching in the boys bedroom all night. I think they were playing in the computer room where all the toys are. And there would have been no reason to turn lights on in there if no one was in there after dark as DB suggested...well except for when she said it was her in there on the computer. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[SwampMama]

All of the lights being on is what really seems hinky to me if there was an abduction. Seems like a mom with a young baby would be a light sleeper and the intruder would not have wanted to wake her. By now we know that she was drunk so she doesn't even know what happened or when. Did they find the emptied box of wine? If not the WHERE is it and could Lisa have been discarded or hidden along with it?

 

[al66pine]

Sister Mary,

If you do decide to get into the B & E business,
you might wanna wear something other than your habit.

Makes it harder to climb over those window sills.

Just a suggestion, lol.

 

[al66pine]

Ppl posted comments in other threads about intruders & lights, like:

An intruder wouldn't know which bedroom was Lisa's without turning on a light.

If a person planned to enter a house in darkness
(I think hrs. between 6:40pm, 10:30pm & 4:00am would be dark in KC, Mo. 2+ wks ago),
isn't there a chance/ good chance/ darned good chance,

whether familiar w. the floorplan & furniture arrangement or not,

that the person w/TAKE A FLASHLIGHT ALONG, to help navigate.

If familiar w. house, floorplan, furniture & inhabitants,
the person might anticipate that 3 young children & dog move things,
and would want to avoid stepping on squeaky dog toys, talking dolls, etc.

If not familiar, the person might anticipate the above & worse.

Lights, esp. specific lights, being off or on, may have evidentiary value of something,
but I wonder if they point to the alleged intruder as being someone unfamiliar w. home, floorplan, residents.

To reduce chances of being detected, those wandering in dark homes can place a red filter on flashlight lens.
Also helps keep night vision.
Btw, works in own home, to check on the bambino in crib.

 

[nursebeeme]

bumping up

 

[katshep]

Now that it's been reported that D and a mystery man were buying wine hours before Lisa disappeared, was the front window of the house opened to air the house out before J got home from work?




imo

The"mystery man" buying wine with her is her brother.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Ppl posted comments in other threads about intruders & lights, like:

An intruder wouldn't know which bedroom was Lisa's without turning on a light.

If a person planned to enter a house in darkness
(I think hrs. between 6:40pm, 10:30pm & 4:00am would be dark in KC, Mo. 2+ wks ago),
isn't there a chance/ good chance/ darned good chance,

whether familiar w. the floorplan & furniture arrangement or not,

that the person w/TAKE A FLASHLIGHT ALONG, to help navigate.

If familiar w. house, floorplan, furniture & inhabitants,
the person might anticipate that 3 young children & dog move things,
and would want to avoid stepping on squeaky dog toys, talking dolls, etc.

If not familiar, the person might anticipate the above & worse.

Lights, esp. specific lights, being off or on, may have evidentiary value of something,
but I wonder if they point to the alleged intruder as being someone unfamiliar w. home, floorplan, residents.

To reduce chances of being detected, those wandering in dark homes can place a red filter on flashlight lens.
Also helps keep night vision.
Btw, works in own home, to check on the bambino in crib.

Maybe they didn't have a flashlight, or a flashlight with a red filter. IF they had a Bic lighter, which would account for the clicking sounds the boys heard, it would heat up and burn their fingers. IF no one woke up, at the time of exit, an intruder would just turn the lights on to get out fast. I still think there was someone who came into the house who was tangentially involved with others who had been invited into the house; just came to hang out. Wine drinking, hanging and some peeps in and out of the house. IMHO

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't know what to think about the lights on and the whole thing with the dang window.
In regards to the lights on.
reasons
JI's first night working.
deborah drank too much and forget them.
deborah left them on for JI since he was suppose to be home soon.

the window
the window in a computer room left open by deborah
the screen that has a bent frame

I don't see either of these things having anything to do with baby lisa being Missing.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Maybe they didn't have a flashlight, or a flashlight with a red filter. IF they had a Bic lighter, which would account for the clicking sounds the boys heard, it would heat up and burn their fingers. IF no one woke up, at the time of exit, an intruder would just turn the lights on to get out fast. I still think there was someone who came into the house who was tangentially involved with others who had been invited into the house; just came to hang out. Wine drinking, hanging and some peeps in and out of the house. IMHO

That's my suspicion, someone KNEW that the father was not home and my hanky meter goes off over the brother and neighbor. Who else was there that night and was DB having an affair. I get the feeling that someone, an acquaintance, is who took the baby. Not someone DB knows personally, but maybe met at her house that night or that is friends with the brother and/or the neighbor. Drugs and money seem to be logical - and they can cause people to do illogical things, like walk in the middle of the night with a half naked baby. The problem with this is that it's unlikely the baby is still alive and it breaks my heart. Such a beautiful girl.

 

[SurfieTX]

This is interesting. First I have heard the word 'angry' used:

3:30 a.m.
-Jeremy Irwin returns home from work.
-Irwin is angered to see lights on and a window screen damaged, but doesn’t immediately notice Baby Lisa is missing.
-A stray cat was sleeping on their bed.
-Facing financial concerns and concerned about electricity bills, he awakens Deborah Bradley to ask why lights are on.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/baby-lisa-irwin-source-details-timeline-of-day-and-night-of-disappearance#ixzz1ca117nCm

 

[SurfieTX]

Also interesting to me is that JI initially said that he checked on the boys first (in their room). I wonder if he was mad because he thought they left the lights on and damaged the screen....then he went to DB apparently still mad about the lights and the screen...??

I guess he was tired and probably grouchy. Still though, in my head I get this vision of him stomping in the house about to ream out the person(s) at 3:30 a.m. who left the lights on, and that makes me think 2 things: Either this wasn't the first time people were "messing up" in his mind or he's kind of a controlling type of guy or, heck, both.

 

[Skully]

I think the lights were on because it was 10:30, she was drunk and she went to bed and didn't turn them off. The 5yr wouldn't think of it, and an 8yr may, but most likely not, and we know baby Lisa was in her crib, so I think mom just flopped into bed and didn't bother checking on the baby, let alone going around the house, locking up and turning off lights. She stated (I don't remember which interview) that she would drink with family and lots of times when she had too much, she would just go to bed and not even say goodbye. This night, dad was not there, no one to turn off lights.

 

[TorisMom003]

We have one persons word that the lights were actually on when JI came home from work some 5 hours later than originally planned. We have heard that at least one neighbor has said that the lights were turned off around 10:30 pm that night. My question is this, why are we believing JI when he claims that not only were the lights on in the house but that the front door was left unlocked?

 

[curiousjo]

We have one persons word that the lights were actually on when JI came home from work some 5 hours later than originally planned. We have heard that at least one neighbor has said that the lights were turned off around 10:30 pm that night. My question is this, why are we believing JI when he claims that not only were the lights on in the house but that the front door was left unlocked?

Because its so nutty, that it is believable. How would making that up help DB/JI? They had to mention it because a neighbor may have seen the lights on and it would look bad if JI didn't report it to LE.

----I think DB was up late staging the scene, JI arrived home, DB jumped back into bed pretending to be asleep - vs - DB really did pass out and left lights left on -vs- JI/DB came up with "kidnapping story" and that was part of their plan - steal the phones, turn on lights, leave front door unlocked and adjust screen window. I agree that it would be VERY odd for a kidnapper to turn on all the house lights, as that would draw attention to the home - so, I don't think an "intruder" was responsible for the lights.

It is one of the big red flags for me that the kidnapping story was not true, something happened to baby under DB watch and JI may or may not know the truth.

 

[GoodGurl]

QUOTE=SurfieTX;7311551]Also interesting to me is that JI initially said that he checked on the boys first (in their room). I wonder if he was mad because he thought they left the lights on and damaged the screen....then he went to DB apparently still mad about the lights and the screen...??

I guess he was tired and probably grouchy. Still though, in my head I get this vision of him stomping in the house about to ream out the person(s) at 3:30 a.m. who left the lights on, and that makes me think 2 things: Either this wasn't the first time people were "messing up" in his mind or he's kind of a controlling type of guy or, heck, both.[/QUOTE]

:thumb: I looked all over WS for an "on the nose" smilie... but this works too. I think he is a bit of a nag, but possibly as you said, this isn't the first time things have been messed up. I see anger in him toward DB, why if he's completely innocent he's protecting her, I have no idea.

 

[TorisMom003]

Because its so nutty, that it is believable. How would making that up help DB/JI? They had to mention it because a neighbor may have seen the lights on and it would look bad if JI didn't report it to LE.

----I think DB was up late staging the scene, JI arrived home, DB jumped back into bed pretending to be asleep - vs - DB really did pass out and left lights left on -vs- JI/DB came up with "kidnapping story" and that was part of their plan - steal the phones, turn on lights, leave front door unlocked and adjust screen window. I agree that it would be VERY odd for a kidnapper to turn on all the house lights, as that would draw attention to the home - so, I don't think an "intruder" was responsible for the lights.

It is one of the big red flags for me that the kidnapping story was not true, something happened to baby under DB watch and JI may or may not know the truth.

Thanks for the response. I personally disagree. I feel that there is something not right with JI and I am leaning more towards him than DB. It is very odd that the things that an intruder would NOT do are coming from him with no way to back it up. It is also very odd that a job that was originally planned for 5 hours would take an extra 5 hours. What exactly did this job involve? Did he have to rewire an entire Starbucks that was still operational? Things with JI make even less sense to me than things with DB.

MOO

 

[a mothers heart]

Thanks for the response. I personally disagree. I feel that there is something not right with JI and I am leaning more towards him than DB. It is very odd that the things that an intruder would NOT do are coming from him with no way to back it up. It is also very odd that a job that was originally planned for 5 hours would take an extra 5 hours. What exactly did this job involve? Did he have to rewire an entire Starbucks that was still operational? Things with JI make even less sense to me than things with DB.

MOO

OK i have to vent -i agree - from the very beginning in the interviews JI seems "off" he is either angry at DB or guilty of something. His eye movement, his mouth, when the dumpster was mentioned the look on his face was like he wanted to shut DB up. And WHY would DB not tell JI about the dumpster?? And why didnt he know about it, werent they stuck together like glue? Doesnt make sense. And why would he not call home when he was going to be soooo late??? :banghead::banghead:If JI had nothing to do with it then he is angry at DB and thinks she did or is angry at her for drinking and having people over while he was at work. I still want to know if JI is Lisa's real father. IF he is not maybe the real baby daddy came to get his kid. Maybe DB had the baby taken before JI could find out. IMO not one person is telling the truth involved in this story. NOT ONE. No 'abductor' would turn on all the lights in the house. how do we even know the lights were on anyway? Maybe JI just said that because it had happened before. Maybe DB called MW phone to get some Meth, people came over, they moved the party into the computer room, opened window to allow the smoke out and DB passed or blacked out. Someone who had been over partying, knew the window was open or even the door and came back in and got lisa for drug money. IMO we cant believe what the neighbor says about the lights being off - no one really knows if the lights were on or off. I probably dont make sense but i am so frustrated with this - where is that sweet baby? i even had a dream about it last night, but i cant remember it!!!

 

[carole]

OK i have to vent -i agree - from the very beginning in the interviews JI seems "off" he is either angry at DB or guilty of something. His eye movement, his mouth, when the dumpster was mentioned the look on his face was like he wanted to shut DB up. And WHY would DB not tell JI about the dumpster?? And why didnt he know about it, werent they stuck together like glue? Doesnt make sense. And why would he not call home when he was going to be soooo late??? :banghead::banghead:If JI had nothing to do with it then he is angry at DB and thinks she did or is angry at her for drinking and having people over while he was at work. I still want to know if JI is Lisa's real father. IF he is not maybe the real baby daddy came to get his kid. Maybe DB had the baby taken before JI could find out. IMO not one person is telling the truth involved in this story. NOT ONE. No 'abductor' would turn on all the lights in the house. how do we even know the lights were on anyway? Maybe JI just said that because it had happened before. Maybe DB called MW phone to get some Meth, people came over, they moved the party into the computer room, opened window to allow the smoke out and DB passed or blacked out. Someone who had been over partying, knew the window was open or even the door and came back in and got lisa for drug money. IMO we cant believe what the neighbor says about the lights being off - no one really knows if the lights were on or off. I probably dont make sense but i am so frustrated with this - where is that sweet baby? i even had a dream about it last night, but i cant remember it!!!

BBM

Drug dealers take babies as payment for drugs????