Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Nelliebell]

I don't subscribe to the accident theory either. I would ask JWG why he believes drowning? My understanding is that the unusually high levels of chloroform found in KC's trunk were not a result of pool chemicals. Also, my recollection was that cadaver dogs did not hit on the pool, rather on other areas of the backyard. In addition, I believe I saw one report earlier on (on CNN) that if there had been a drowning, there would have been significant evidence (vomiting, other body fluids) in the pool water and that such evidence had not been found.

I believe that KC is a true narcissist and sociopath and could not stand the attention her daughter was receiving from CA. Not to mention the huge inconvenience her daughter played in her social life. Just reading the post that CA left on KC's myspace on July 3 is so telling about their relationship. I think after their fight on 6/15, KC made up her mind to eliminate the perceived "obstacle" in her life.

I came across a link to operationdoubles when reading another WS's post on narcissism and how it relates to KC. I think the information below is spot on:

(from www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/strategy_of_narcissism.htm)

Remember that a narcissist's goal is attention. His or her whole life is a game of monopoly for it all. Keep in mind that attention comes in many forms, including regard, love, and respect.

The grandiosity is an excuse to justify hogging it all.

The abuse denies it, bringing the victim low, either by slander or treating them like dirt.

The lack of empathy is partly play-acting grandiosity by viewing the deprived victim as a bug and partly to un-conscience the cruelty of narcissistic abuse.

So, at bottom, it's all about attention.

Though a narcissist may be overtly exhibitionistic at times, NPD is different from other attention-getting disorders. A narcissist's attention getting is covert most of the time. There are two reasons for this.
· She can't abuse just anyone without risk of payback. So, (normally) she needs to project an image that reflects well on her. People respond negatively to any but subtle exhibitionism that somehow stays beneath their radar. So, exhibitionism rarely gets a narcissist the reflection she wants to see in people's faces.


· Needing to be the center of attention is a childhood trait. Being childish is not grandiose, so the narcissist must get attention without seeming to seek or want it.



Besides, a god isn't exhibitionistic. God is self-sufficient, needing nothing from anyone. God never cries out for attention. Instead, she is subtle: she needs to project an image of herself as so special that others owe her all their attention without her having to ask for it. Or appreciate it (which would be paying some attention back). In other words, she acts like a queen, who is above noticing all the attention she gets from everyone around her but regards her dignity as slighted by anything less than all of it.

This absurdly haughty attitude is born of another thing that distinguishes narcissistic attention-getting from other personality disorders. Narcissists are infinitely stingy with their own attention and infinitely covetous of everybody else's. In fact, their most characteristic behaviors are behaviors that deny attention to anyone but themselves.

She cannot stand to see anyone else get any. That's stealing from her. She is just like a spoiled brat who won't share her toys.

 

[LancelotLink]

Nelliebell, the spoiled brat comment reminded me of LP's heated remarks towards KC after bailing her out. I would liked to have been a fly on that wall.

 

[Chess613]

I recall George saying something about Caylee never showed any recognition with the name.

Very good point! Where did you hear this about George?

Also, does anyone have any information about these neighbors who supposedly heard someone in the pool on the 16th? I've read almost every transcript that's been discovered and I haven't read anything like that. If anyone has any info, I'd love to hear it.

By the way, love the Lancelot Link reference. Boy, does that bring back fun memories.

 

[Pink Panther]

My thought is accidental drowning in swimming pool while KC is texting and playing on the computer. Thus, no accidental "overdose". no premeditated murder, no accidental death in trunk, etc...etc...

And the duct tape was wrapped around Caylee's head...because....????

 

[Pink Panther]

Very good point! Where did you hear this about George?

Also, does anyone have any information about these neighbors who supposedly heard someone in the pool on the 16th? I've read almost every transcript that's been discovered and I haven't read anything like that. If anyone has any info, I'd love to hear it.

By the way, love the Lancelot Link reference. Boy, does that bring back fun memories.

He stated this VERY clearly in his interview with the FBI. This will come up for sure if the case ever goes to trial. He is adament and very clear about this fact.

 

[Mom of Five]

My thought is accidental drowning in swimming pool while KC is texting and playing on the computer. Thus, no accidental "overdose". no premeditated murder, no accidental death in trunk, etc...etc...

So......how do you come to terms with the searches for chloroform, missing children, household weapons and neck breaking? Also, the high levels of chloroform in the trunk and the possible duct tape on the body?

 

[Pink Panther]

So......how do you come to terms with the searches for chloroform, missing children, household weapons and neck breaking? Also, the high levels of chloroform in the trunk and the possible duct tape on the body?

Don't please forget a mother who doesn't report her child missing for 31 days until she's "caught out" and forced to do so by someone else....Or the fact that this same "mother" dressed to the nines and danced the night away night after night while she was SEARCHING for her 2 year old girl, or the fact that she chit-faced lied to her friends about where her child was for a month and then lied to police officers who were trying to help her locate her daughter...

Or am I harping on irrelevant carp? If I am, please forgive me...

MOO

 

[txsvicki]

Why does EVERYTHING going on in their lives have to tie into one neat little package = premeditated murder? There are a lot of variables, a ton of speculation and some confusing facts. I think it's quite possible that the internet searches may have nothing to do with the disappearance. I feel the same way about much of the disconnected information. Obviously some of it ties in, but all? Maybe not is all I'm saying.

As for the partying, laughing and tattoo after- they do NOT necessarily = guilty of premeditated murder. Either way she is obviously mentally ill, perhaps in more ways than one? A predisposition and some narcissism when she was young maybe, obviously a pathological liar and then after- could be PTSD and in a dissociative state- things I have dealt with first hand. The way a narcissist would behave with PTSD would possibly be to completely detach and literally carry on as normal.

I don't know what happened, none of us do. I believe KC is responsible- that's all I can say.

As for a theory- I don't have one but a fake kidnapping plot to make $ gone wrong is one I haven't noticed being discussed.

I've thought that it might have all been a kidnapping plot to get sympathy, money, and her past thefts overshadowed by a new tragedy. I'm not sure about it going wrong and Caylee dying though. I lean more towards a plot to get rid of Caylee in a kidnapping. The computer searches seem to point to some type of plot where someone was chloroformed, at home, with attempts to use household things as protection. Maybe the flurry of calls to Cindy and George was to tell them a home invasion happened and Caylee was taken and a ransom demanded. The Anthony's fell for the other "attack" where Casey was robbed or whatever happened.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Seasoned LE professionals with more evidence at their disposal than we do believe this is a homicide...The grand jury indicted her for murder...the DA charged her as such...the coroner has ruled a homicide, albeit by undetermined means...

This plus the fact that KC never reported Caylee missing, that she partied hard for 31 days and never told a soul her daughter was missing, plus the body farm report, plus the decomp smell in HER car, plus the body being conveniently located near HER home, plus her total dishonesty with LE, plus her cavalier attitude (remember "waste, huge waste?), these are the things that cause people to believe that a murder was commited...premeditated or otherwise...

I really want to hear something from the people who are pushing the accident theory why they believe it is the most logical conclusion and what supports this theory?

 

[FIND'HER]

MY THEORY MAY BE FAR FETCHED BUT PLEASE READ

I know that KC is a habitual Liar, but some part of me tells me that I can not picture her harming Caylee.

I think something was going on in her life. She was involved into something bigger than her. Such as Escorting, or trafficing drugs. I see the reason she was looking up Chlorform could have been used on clients to get in bed with them and then she Chlorforms them out of the clear Blue, this would be an easy way to rob them blind and not have to have sex with them. She then could take Wallet and All.
I think the Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales that visited Sawgrass Apartments on
June 17th, 2008 is the same one that knows KC and KC knows her. They met at Sawgrass and Caylee was handed over to her. I think she babysat Caylee for KC and maybe KC owed her money.
What kind of babysitter drives a Hummer.

 

[Nehemiah]

My thoughts keep going back to the pool, like LE had mentioned awhile back.
If a swimsuit was found in the bag with Caylee, and she had been wearing it when she died, IMO, KC taped her mouth and/or eyes, and threw Caylee into the pool at their house. Caylee's pleas for help would'nt be heard by neighbors, and it would be quick, and all KC would have to do is just stand there and wait, and not even see Caylee die, she would sink to the bottom, and KC would just have to fish her out before C and G got home in a few hours. IIRC, GA mentioned to LE that the pool ladder was down that Monday, when it usually is put out of reach for safety reasons. KC does'nt cover her tracks well, but is able to fantasize in great detail. :furious:

I totally concur, my Southern friend.

 

[natsound]

I wish I could snip ..but I have no idea how. If someone can let me know - please PM me. Anywho - DotsEyes - what a wonderful and accurate post!!! I loved every word of it! The only thing that confounds me more is that CA and GA KNEW what Casey was about and what a conniver (sp) she was - and they let a MONTH go by without knowing where there were sleeping, eating, etc, etc? Negligent behaviour in it's MOST primal form.

Above in bold: so true. The A's established a pattern of enabling KC long ago. Remember.. Rick said they couldn't bring themselves to believe KC was pregnant when she was obviously pregnant. CA apparently said "she would have to have sex to get pregnant!" Puh-leeze.

I believe part of the A's relentless denial of Caylee's death was fueled in part by their guilt over letting their daughter be the irresponsible weirdo that she is... and the worst thing possible happened.

 

[natsound]

My thoughts keep going back to the pool, like LE had mentioned awhile back.
If a swimsuit was found in the bag with Caylee, and she had been wearing it when she died, IMO, KC taped her mouth and/or eyes, and threw Caylee into the pool at their house. Caylee's pleas for help would'nt be heard by neighbors, and it would be quick, and all KC would have to do is just stand there and wait, and not even see Caylee die, she would sink to the bottom, and KC would just have to fish her out before C and G got home in a few hours. IIRC, GA mentioned to LE that the pool ladder was down that Monday, when it usually is put out of reach for safety reasons. KC does'nt cover her tracks well, but is able to fantasize in great detail. :furious:

Fact check: has it been confirmed that a swimsuit was found in the bag with Caylee's remains? Has it been confirmed she was wearing it? Just asking... I'm not sure...

 

[drumstick]

MY THEORY MAY BE FAR FETCHED BUT PLEASE READ

I know that KC is a habitual Liar, but some part of me tells me that I can not picture her harming Caylee.

I think something was going on in her life. She was involved into something bigger than her. Such as Escorting, or trafficing drugs. I see the reason she was looking up Chlorform could have been used on clients to get in bed with them and then she Chlorforms them out of the clear Blue, this would be an easy way to rob them blind and not have to have sex with them. She then could take Wallet and All.
I think the Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales that visited Sawgrass Apartments on
June 17th, 2008 is the same one that knows KC and KC knows her. They met at Sawgrass and Caylee was handed over to her. I think she babysat Caylee for KC and maybe KC owed her money.
What kind of babysitter drives a Hummer.

There are many facts to this case that we won't know until trial.

But consider this ....
http://www.cbs12.com/news/mother_4712204___article.html/death_year.html

This mother confessed unlike Caylee's mother.

 

[pirate]

MY THEORY MAY BE FAR FETCHED BUT PLEASE READ

I know that KC is a habitual Liar, but some part of me tells me that I can not picture her harming Caylee.

I think something was going on in her life. She was involved into something bigger than her. Such as Escorting, or trafficing drugs. I see the reason she was looking up Chlorform could have been used on clients to get in bed with them and then she Chlorforms them out of the clear Blue, this would be an easy way to rob them blind and not have to have sex with them. She then could take Wallet and All.
I think the Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales that visited Sawgrass Apartments on
June 17th, 2008 is the same one that knows KC and KC knows her. They met at Sawgrass and Caylee was handed over to her. I think she babysat Caylee for KC and maybe KC owed her money.
What kind of babysitter drives a Hummer.

You are kidding, right?

Your comment about the hummer is utterly ridiculous- the ZG you refer to is not a babysitter and does not know Casey.

 

[tx_Dot]

Fact check: has it been confirmed that a swimsuit was found in the bag with Caylee's remains? Has it been confirmed she was wearing it? Just asking... I'm not sure...

Yep, I've been wondering about the bathing suit too......also wondered since the remains were so scattered if they could tell if she was wearing it, or if it was just in the bag.........but, I haven't seen any info yet.

I also had asked early on about missing bathing suits.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Very good point! Where did you hear this about George?

Also, does anyone have any information about these neighbors who supposedly heard someone in the pool on the 16th? I've read almost every transcript that's been discovered and I haven't read anything like that. If anyone has any info, I'd love to hear it.

By the way, love the Lancelot Link reference. Boy, does that bring back fun memories.

George talked about Zanny and Kaylee in the FBI videotaped interview on July 31.

 

[tx_Dot]

You are kidding, right?

Your comment about the hummer is utterly ridiculous- the ZG you refer to is not a babysitter and does not know Casey.

ROTFLMAO........Now zanny drives a hummer ????

no wonder KC said zanny "had lots of money".

 

[Indigo]

Note: Please don't read this scenario if you are sensitive to murder vs. accident theory. It involves speculation and opinion on my part. and I don't want to cause any offense to those who believe in an accident. I respect the brilliant posters, such as JWG, who believe this was an unintentional, but am not able to see it in the same light.


It occurred to me that even though Casey gave a false statement to the police, she may have "marked" certain actual timing spots in her story as she created it.

With that in mind, I thought it might be interesting to try to reconstruct the events of June 16 by using Casey's original statement as a template. Please feel free to point out any blind spots or glaring errors:

Casey's statement in bold - my comments follow in plain type:

1. I got off work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee like a normal day

Casey pretended to go to work like every other day-- waited for George to leave-- then returned home with Caylee.

2. and I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers

Nobody is home at the Anthony house, as planned.

3. So I called Zenaida's cell phone and it is out of service. It says the phone is no longer in service.

This is the time frame that Casey marks Caylee as missing. My belief is that she began carrying out plans at this time. ( I'll spare the details of my theory here, but it involves an intentional drowning)

4."So, I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if it was maybe a fluke.If something happened.

Casey's words here don't show a proactive position. Rather she "sits" and "waits" to make sure this is not a fluke. I believe she is waiting to see that her plans have been successful. During this waiting she makes a 36-minutecall to Amy. Then a call to Jesse. There is also some computer activity.

By this time, I believe Casey's intitial plans have been carried out and Caylee is now deceased. She makes several calls to her parents, probably to satisfy herself that they on schedule and not expected home early. Casey fears being discovered at this point.

5. AND TIME PASSED, I didn't hear from anyone ,no one showed up to the house

Casey is aware of a chunk of time here in which nobody calls or shows up. I believe this is when she first hid Caylee's body (MOO on the Anthony's property) When she is finished Casey leaves the Anthony home.

6. so I went over to Jay Blanchard Park to check a couple of other places, where maybe possibly they would have gone to a couple a stores, just regular places I know Zenaida shows at, and where she's taken Caylee before.

Casey considers a permanent disposal site, goes over kidnapping scenarios (stores, parks, etc.) in her search. (makes a call to Tony).

7. "And, after about 7 o'clock, when I still haven't heard anything,
Up until 7 o'clock, Casey hadn't heard back from her parents. She then gets a call from the Anthony home at 7:45, which goes unanswered.

8. I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic and went to a neutral place.I didn't really want to come home, I didn't know what I'd say about not knowing where Caylee was. Still hoping I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so I can go get her."

Casey goes to Tony's--not wanting to "come home." She shows concern for a time when she can return to get Caylee.
--------------------------------------------------------
June 18

Casey returns - backs into the driveway, borrows a shovel from the neighbor. At this time she retrieves Caylee and mistakenly punctures the bag/s while doing so. She doesn't notice the leak until she places the body in her trunk. Panicked by the leakage and resulting odor, she disposes of the body as quickly as possible--40 seconds later on Suburban Drive.

 

[Pattymarie]

I am seeing speculation on days other than June 16 being the date of death. I don't want to completely repeat what I have posted on other threads, but I also recognize there is way too much information to sort through on this website / topic. The net is I believe that the evidence already released by the prosecution supports a June 16 date of death, with the time of death being approximately 3:00 PM.

I posted the following summary as part of a longer post earlier this month. Please poke whatever holes in it that you can (the HP computer is the desktop computer belonging to George and Cindy):

For those of you that have followed my posts, the something awful that happened to Caylee is, I believe, accidental drowning.

And just a few hours later, she is arm in arm with her boyfriend at a video store