Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[BuzzieCat]

...TonE may have been more than willing to let Casey AND Caylee stay at his place, but I doubt he would have been willing to stay at home with them. So all Casey would have accomplished would be a new enviroment to be stuck in with Caylee.

I think this is a good point. When Casey was with JG, he apparently really liked Caylee, so having a child in tow probably wasn't as much of a problem for her then. But when that relationship broke up and she was interested in someone who wasn't as kid-oriented, maybe Casey was more annoyed by what to do with Caylee. Plus, as others have pointed out, Caylee could talk more and might say something to CA that Casey didn't want known.

I just don't think Casey would have willingly given Caylee to CA. The kid was too much of a bargaining chip to let go and then CA would be calling all the shots.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I think this is a good point. When Casey was with JG, he apparently really liked Caylee, so having a child in tow probably wasn't as much of a problem for her then. But when that relationship broke up and she was interested in someone who wasn't as kid-oriented, maybe Casey was more annoyed by what to do with Caylee. Plus, as others have pointed out, Caylee could talk more and might say something to CA that Casey didn't want known.

I just don't think Casey would have willingly given Caylee to CA. The kid was too much of a bargaining chip to let go and then CA would be calling all the shots.

As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

 

[BuzzieCat]

As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

Yes, exactly. They could press her more and she wouldn't have anything to hold over them to get her way. IMO.

 

[DotsEyes]

Has anyone else ever been choked by their mother?

Like mother, like daughter?

"You choked me, so I'll choke her."


A 22 year old man shot and killed his 2 1/2 year old son during visitation weekend because he did not want to pay $4K in back child support. He said he was sorry for all the pain he caused everyone after he confessed that the child was not kidnapped by thugs with AK-47's but was dead in a duffle bag in an abandonned lot. It was done and over in less than 24 hours. Maybe if he had said the Nanny took him, he would have been able to stall a few months.

 

[tx_Dot]

I didn't know where to put this idea so I decided to put it on this thread. If not appropriate then mods can move.
I have been thinking of what they took out of the house right after little Caylee's body was found. They took 3 vacuums and 1 shop vac along with other stuff. I wonder if KC put Caylee in one of those space bags after she had died and used one of the vacuums or shop vac to get the air out of it. I can't think of another reason for taking all of those from the house. I would have thought if it was related to the trunk they would have taken them out a long time ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

my bold...

Yep, I wondered why they didn't check the vac's earlier too.....I think at least one day she was backed in she was cleaning the trunk.....also thught she might have emptied the vac's in the backyard, causing the dog hits.

Maybe they found carpet fibers with the remains, from the house or the car ??

 

[radio]

Maybe they found carpet fibers with the remains, from the house or the car ??

Probably. But Caylee lived in that house and spent a lot of time in that car, so I guess you would expect more or less to find something from the Anthony home and from Casey's car. Dratz.

 

[Lanie]

I didn't know where to put this idea so I decided to put it on this thread. If not appropriate then mods can move.
I have been thinking of what they took out of the house right after little Caylee's body was found. They took 3 vacuums and 1 shop vac along with other stuff. I wonder if KC put Caylee in one of those space bags after she had died and used one of the vacuums or shop vac to get the air out of it. I can't think of another reason for taking all of those from the house. I would have thought if it was related to the trunk they would have taken them out a long time ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

LE did a search on the house before the results came back on the car. This is part of why I think the chloroform was not an ingredient in something else. The levels of chloroform found were suspicious, and would have been enough to get another search warrant had they been suspected to be from pesticide or cleaning solvent. Since they did not get another search warrant at that time, I believe they thought they would have already found the chloroform in the first search if it was still in the house.
It HAS to be something directly related to the discovery/recovery of Caylee's remains. I don't think it was a space bag, though, as those are clear, and whatever bag the skull was in was not see through enough for meter guy to see the skull until he moved it with a stick and the skull rolled out. If you had a space bag inside another bag, I just don't see it deteriorating enough for a skull to roll out at 6 months.
IIRC, something was found at the scene pretty early that caused the detectives to scurry off and get a search warrant, so IMO, it had to be something big enough to see and register pretty quickly. There could be fibers, as well, but I don't think that was the smoking gun, so to speak.
My first thought was something was found with the body that points to it actually being kept in the house, but I don't know what. That would explain all the vacuums being taken, to look for evidence of decomp.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

BINGO! And I would not be shocked at all to discover this point was driven home to Casey time after time. "The only reason I'm doing this for you is because of Caylee." says Cindy. Caylee was Casey's bargaining chip for exhortion, and it probably bothered her it worked so well, as it reinforced the 'they like Caylee better than me' mantra. If Casey thought Cindy was going to take Caylee away, this was her last shot at Cindy, so she took it.
JMO
Lanie

 

[ecs5298]

My first thought was something was found with the body that points to it actually being kept in the house, but I don't know what. That would explain all the vacuums being taken, to look for evidence of decomp.
Lanie

My bet is that the body was wrapped in the comforter from Caylee's bed set. I would also be willing to bet that is the location in the house where KC killed Caylee, probably when she woke up from her nap at 3:00 pm. MOO

 

[Lanie]

My bet is that the body was wrapped in the comforter from Caylee's bed set. I would also be willing to bet that is the location in the house where KC killed Caylee, probably when she woke up from her nap at 3:00 pm. MOO

I realize LE could have decided to use this search warrant to pick up all the other stuff they didn't get the other times, but they picked up vacuums and pesticides.
If they really felt the car trunk had been so thoroughly cleaned, that should have been noticeable right away, and the vacuums taken then. As has already been pointed out, Caylee lived in that house, so finding evidence of her presence in the vacuum cleaners means nothing. Plus it had been 6 months since she was last in the house. Maybe they found evidence someone other than meter man had been on the scene, and they wanted to check the vacuums to place someone in the house on the scene.
They very well could have found her comforter, but why get the pesticides? No way the tox reports were back that quickly.
My head is starting to hurt.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

Oh, I just had another thought. What if LE found something at the location of the remains they remembered seeing in the house when they did the first search? Say a toy, for example. So they go back to the house, and the toy they saw at the house is gone.
I'm going to make myself crazy!!! :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
Lanie

 

[debs]

I imagine that when they returned for the vacuums and pesticide cannisters, they found around the remains the emptied out contents of a vacuum and some cans of stuff used to mix up lawn stuff.

 

[concentric]

I imagine that when they returned for the vacuums and pesticide cannisters, they found around the remains the emptied out contents of a vacuum and some cans of stuff used to mix up lawn stuff.

As I said earlier. Did she place Lime from the lawn stuff in the bag with Caylee's body thinking it would hasten decomposition? Maybe it wasn't even the kind of Lime that would do that, anyway.

I have no idea, but it's a thought.

 

[concentric]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoHead
As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

Great post! You beat me to the punch with that one. And Lainie thank you for commenting on it.

Here's something to build upon that premise:

KC would not only lose her free ride, but Caylee would in essence "displace" KC as the daughter of the family. And that is where the jealousy issue is apparent and her conflict. She did not want to stay and she did not want to leave. Or she felt she couldn't stay or leave--trapped.

It almost seems to me that KC at times thought of Caylee as her little sister in the family, since Cindy often took on the role of being Caylee's "mom."

 

[Lanie]

I imagine that when they returned for the vacuums and pesticide cannisters, they found around the remains the emptied out contents of a vacuum and some cans of stuff used to mix up lawn stuff.

I disagree. It's like I am circling around an idea I can't quite grasp, but here are my thoughts.

Caylee was found in a trash bag (I think?) Most trash bags are made to be enviromentally friendly, where they start breaking down when exposed to elements. Caylee's remains were found scattered over a large area, consistent with a water runoff pattern. To me this says the bag had to have broken down enough for a water flow to go through the bag, and at enough volume and force to wash out the bones and scatter them. That means if she was wrapped in something inside the bag, it had to have come loose enough for the remains to get out of the bag and be washed away. There was no soft tissue left, so with that and the current of water washing over everything, I don't see how there could be much in the way of fibers, or vacuum dumping, unless it was somehow caught up in the bag, and potentially whatever the remains were wrapped in. If pesticide was sprayed all over Caylee to kill her or to kill insects before she was dumped, it should have all washed away under the conditions she was found in.
We have theorized Caylee was killed on June 16th, and with all the pings and timelines info people have worked so hard putting together, I think we are right. Casey was only in the Anthony home here and there after the 16th, yet the Anthony home is where LE headed when the remains were found. Not the car, not TonE's, not Ricardo's, but a beeline to Anthony home.
What am I missing here?
Lanie

 

[EgyptNug]

I have never seen evidence stating that AL would not let Caylee come over with Caylee on any particular night. We have several reports of her being there, after all. He and his friends agreed it wasn't the kind of place for a little kid to be staying at night and staying all the time, but they never said they had a no-Caylee policy or that they even discouraged Casey from bringing her there. I'm sure that if Casey said she'd just had a huge fight with her mom (coupled with all the other lies she'd given...the divorce pending, the cheating dad, etc.) and that she and Caylee had nowhere else to go, he would have gladly let both stay there that night and for a few nights if absolutely needed.

IF (and I don't think this is true), Casey killed Caylee partially b/c she didn't think she could show up with her at AL's and didn't want to stay at home any more (due to fight or due to her lies a/b trip or whatever), then this was entirely in her messed up mind. It doesn't appear that AL ever told her no or would have told her no that night. Yes, those text messages or phone calls during that crucial overnight period between KC and AL are so important to figuring much of this out!

I agree. KC had no trouble bringing Caylee overnight to RM's, but she never does that with AL. I think at some point there must have been a discussion between those two that made Casey feel that she could not bring Caylee with her to AL's, and/or that AL was not interested in a long term relationship with a single mom. Otherwise I don't understand why she brought Caylee over to RM's but not to AL's. Even though AL's might not have been a good environment for a kid, and KC says in a jail video to CA she would never let Caylee over anywhere that people were smoking pot, SURELY secondhand pot smoke is better than killing your child and leaving her in your trunk to decompose?

Cindy's gestures were not without strings attached, and I would venture that Casey felt those strings to be more like an anchor chain.

I agree with this two. Cindy would have held it over Casey's head FOREVER if Casey had left Caylee with her permanently. Casey would have never heard the end of it, of what a failure of a mom she was. And also, I think Cindy would have fought her ever getting custody back once she was awarded it.

 

[Lanie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoHead
As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

Great post! You beat me to the punch with that one. And Lainie thank you for commenting on it.

Here's something to build upon that premise:

KC would not only lose her free ride, but Caylee would in essence "displace" KC as the daughter of the family. And that is where the jealousy issue in apparent and her conflict. She did not want to stay and she did not want to leave.

It almost seems to me that KC at times thought of Caylee as her little sister in the family, since Cindy often took on the role of being Caylee's "mom."

Apparently, Cindy being the first to hold Caylee after she was born was a thorn in Casey's side. JG said somewhere Casey broke it off with him because she thought he liked Caylee better than her. George also commented, I think to FBI, that while he wasn't 'there' so much for his children, he had really been there in the raising of Caylee. I think Casey had some really strong feelings about being usurped by Caylee in the family hierarchy.
This kind of stuff is why I am not 100% convinced about the sociopath angle. Maybe I don't have the full understanding of what a sociopath is, but to me, I don't see this kind of thing having an impact the way I feel it has impacted Casey. She exhibits emotions, IMO. Maybe not appropriate to the situation, but still....
Anyway, I still think there is some bizarre love/hate thing going on with Casey towards Cindy. I think Casey really needs Cindy's approval on one hand, but resents the hell out of it on the other hand. I also really think Casey's number 1 reason for killing Caylee was to stick it to Cindy hard.
Lanie

 

[Steely Dan]

Probably. But Caylee lived in that house and spent a lot of time in that car, so I guess you would expect more or less to find something from the Anthony home and from Casey's car. Dratz.

It may be something that they found that proves she was still alive after the 15th of June.

As I said earlier. Did she place Lime from the lawn stuff in the bag with Caylee's body thinking it would hasten decomposition? Maybe it wasn't even the kind of Lime that would do that, anyway.

I have no idea, but it's a thought.

It was probably a couple of limes she bought at the grocery store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoHead
As well, KC would have actually had to find a real job and work had she given up custody to CA. There would be no further need for CA to feed and clothe KC.

Great post! You beat me to the punch with that one. And Lainie thank you for commenting on it.

Here's something to build upon that premise:

KC would not only lose her free ride, but Caylee would in essence "displace" KC as the daughter of the family. And that is where the jealousy issue is apparent and her conflict. She did not want to stay and she did not want to leave. Or she felt she couldn't stay or leave--trapped.

It almost seems to me that KC at times thought of Caylee as her little sister in the family, since Cindy often took on the role of being Caylee's "mom."

I think KC never got a lot of attention as a child and when she saw the way her parents fawned over Caylee it may have brought up a lot of anger.

I think that's why she tried to keep Caylee away from her mother. Rather than have her mother babysit her she'd rather have a fictitious nanny watch her.

 

[Lanie]

It may be something that they found that proves she was still alive after the 15th of June.

Respectfully snipped.

But what? If it was a timeline thing, it would not only have to be something that could reasonably be dated to after June 15th, but also that ties into the Anthony's home. Wouldn't it? I briefly thought about what if they found a 'Find Caylee' t-shirt or flyer with the body, but that could have come from anywhere.
One of my feelings is what was found is something LE KNOWS was in the Anthony home from previous searches. However, they sure removed a lot of stuff when they went in again after the remains were found, which would seem to rule that out.
Another thought is they found something that proves Caylee was kept in the house after she was killed, but I can't think of anything that would do that, especially when I factor in all the exposure to the water runoff.
Sigh.
Lanie

 

[concentric]

Apparently, Cindy being the first to hold Caylee after she was born was a thorn in Casey's side. JG said somewhere Casey broke it off with him because she thought he liked Caylee better than her. George also commented, I think to FBI, that while he wasn't 'there' so much for his children, he had really been there in the raising of Caylee. I think Casey had some really strong feelings about being usurped by Caylee in the family hierarchy.
This kind of stuff is why I am not 100% convinced about the sociopath angle. Maybe I don't have the full understanding of what a sociopath is, but to me, I don't see this kind of thing having an impact the way I feel it has impacted Casey. She exhibits emotions, IMO. Maybe not appropriate to the situation, but still....
Anyway, I still think there is some bizarre love/hate thing going on with Casey towards Cindy. I think Casey really needs Cindy's approval on one hand, but resents the hell out of it on the other hand. I also really think Casey's number 1 reason for killing Caylee was to stick it to Cindy hard.
Lanie

You use the word usurp and I used displace, similar ideas really. I agree, the psychological makeup as to motive is composed of multiple factors. I can't wait to hear what is said in court pertaining to this.