Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

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I'm not sure, but I will say that I've taken Xanax before and it's not that strong of a "relaxant". At least not for me and at the I only weighed 113 lbs. at the time. I barely noticed any effect as a matter of fact and wondered what the big deal was regarding it (as far as being an "anti-anxiety" drug) The effect (if any) was incredibly subtle. I didn't even feel the least bit sleepy or drowsy, so I'm thinking even for a 35# child, it may have to be quite a bit to induce sleep, esp. sleep lasting hours...:confused:

I am 150 lbs and took a half a xanex and I feel sleepy. I just do not buy the death by xanex.
 
Has there been any answer to the reason why no one responded to Casey's "flurry" of phone calls on June 16th. I just find that so strange. When my (adult) kids try to reach me at work and I can't pick up....per the ringer and caller ID, I still can tell that they called me and get back to them asap. They also would probably text me which I can usually see immediately. There is just no reason in the world why they couldn't get a response from me fairly quickly. This gaping hole in this part of the case bothers me.

Was Casey in an emergency and desperately trying to call her folks? (But not 911) Or was she calling around, knowing they wouldn't/couldn't pick up to a.) make sure they weren't on there way home or b. ) leave a pretend phone trail.

Just bothers me......

I vote for #1. KC, upon discovering Caylee limp and lifeless, felt too fearful and panicked to make the 9-1-1 call herself w/out the support of someone but CA who, had she not still been fuming about the heated confrontation, would have normally picked up or at least responded asap, neither considers this a likely prospect, nor is in any mood to grant favors for her lying, thieving ingrate of a daughter, nor does it ever occur to her KC might be too fearful in the event of negligence or a true emergency to LEAVE A MESSAGE, opts to be punitive rather than consider all of these seemingly remote factors so continues ignoring her calls. When KC's repeated calls continued being ignored, this small window of opportunity--along with what nerve KC had mustered--came and went. Thus tragically NO ONE was watching out for the little angel. Caylee became the sacrificial lamb in the battle for control between the two. JMO
 
Not true. You're referring to a criminal charge (and it's actually called manslaughter not negligent homicide) as opposed to an ME's findings. Not the same. The ME did not rule the manner of death "a negligent homicide". She ruled it a homicide. If she had ruled it a negligent homicide, LE would have to have the indictment changed. They haven't done so.

The charge of negligent homicide does exist and it was used in the case I noted yesterday in this post on this thread. Kamilyn Hadley, the Clearfield mother who accidentally left her child in a hot car last month, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor negligent homicide today.

Also, from Wikipedia:
The ME does not bring the specific charge - the prosecution does. The ME ruled the death a homicide, but it is up to the prosecution to decide what charges to bring, and "negligent homicide" is an option, as are the varying degrees of manslaughter.
 
[SIZE=-1]http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0782/titl0782.htm

782.03 Excusable homicide.
--Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

That is the Florida statute if they believed it was an accident.

[/SIZE]
 
(respectively snipped)
Originally Posted by KellioPSL
kc was zanaxing caylee, on 6/06 she goes to fusion, she tells ah and ric that her boss sent her there to check on daughter ric states that she showed up at his apartment at around 11:30 that night, with caylee and they spent the night. Earlier when kc was at fusion who was watching caylee ? She was zanaxed and in the trunk of the car. (I wonder if le asked ric if caylee was only wearing a diper when kc brought her in the apartment) kc zanaxed caylee numerous times between 6/1 and 6/16. I'm sure there was a fight on the 15th but it is irrelevant, I'm sure there were alot of fights. The 16th of June, the call from the a's home to kc's cell was probably to tell kc to get up and come out of her room and take care of her daughter. I believe ga did see kc and caylee leave at 12:50, but they didnt go far, they were right by the a's home waiting for ga to go to work, after ga left they came back. kc then leaves the a's house heading toward tones, she starts making phone calls ga ca ah, she was trying to get someone to watch caylee. Then it looks like she stops somewhere on the way to tone's. she stopped probably took caylee's sipee cup that had juice in it, and crushed up a zanax in it, she waited then for her to go to sleep, took caylee's clothes off, and put her in the trunk. Off to tone's and leaves her car in the parking lot with Caylee in the trunk asleep, this time was different though, she either had chloroform in a container in her trunk or spilled some in her trunk, anyway because of the chloroform there was no oxygen and caylee was probably dead before she even got to tone's. I bet that she checked on her sometime that evening and knew that she was dead. I dont think she did this on purpose but when kc zanaxed her that was felonious assault and death during the comission of felonious assault is 1st degree murder. So date of death imho was early evening on june 16th. (thank you Joyce for pointing out the ping info for the 16th and thank you bondjamesbond for idea of what all the calls were about that aftrenoon)

The bolded part above is written as if it is a fact. What evidence is there to lead to this? I believe Caylee was with Grandma that week of June 6th as CA was on vacation. Zanex is highly addictive. I took a half a pill once and that much would in the long wrong do damage that would be visible. I just do not believe she was using Zanex because Caylee would NOT be the happy and healthy little girl we see in the video THE DAY BEFORE. She would be a whining, upset and wanting another dose of Zanex. I will stick with a quick suffocation with the pillow from the bedroom and a the following coverup.
Hello, it is interesting to read the many posts here. I never considered that "Zanny the babysitter" could actually be "Xanax" although that does make sense. She could have been giving that poor child Xanax to put her to sleep while she was going out and partying. However the short action of the Xanax could have made her consider researching the Chloroform...since she knew the Xanax would indeed eventually become addicting. I think this crime was premeditated and she was considering killing Caylee months in advance. She was resentful of Caylee and she was a hassle to KC. I'm thinking that the argument between her mother was the straw. I'm wondering if possibly she had given her Xanax, then used Chloroform, put the tape around her mouth to keep her quiet, and then put a rag in the car with Chloroform on it so that if she woke up she would inhale more to put her back to sleep and/or kill her? Just my opinion. My opinion also that KC needs DP.
 
Has there been any answer to the reason why no one responded to Casey's "flurry" of phone calls on June 16th. I just find that so strange. When my (adult) kids try to reach me at work and I can't pick up....per the ringer and caller ID, I still can tell that they called me and get back to them asap. They also would probably text me which I can usually see immediately. There is just no reason in the world why they couldn't get a response from me fairly quickly. This gaping hole in this part of the case bothers me.

Was Casey in an emergency and desperately trying to call her folks? (But not 911) Or was she calling around, knowing they wouldn't/couldn't pick up to a.) make sure they weren't on there way home or b. ) leave a pretend phone trail.

Just bothers me......
That has bothered me too.... and I think she called around to leave a phone trail. I think she knew her parents could not call back for whatever reason.
 
Not true. You're referring to a criminal charge (and it's actually called manslaughter not negligent homicide) as opposed to an ME's findings. Not the same. The ME did not rule the manner of death "a negligent homicide". She ruled it a homicide. If she had ruled it a negligent homicide, LE would have to have the indictment changed. They haven't done so.

ME's ruling and LE's findings seem to be mutually interdependent in that ME's opinion is also often revised later to reflect LE's determination. JMO

How do you go from the manner of death was homicide but could have been an accident???? The ME ruled the death a homicide. That means, the death was a homicide not an accident. The cause of death being undetermined doesn't change it from a homicide to an accident.

Rather than tossing around indiscriminately terms such as homicide including negligent homicide, three degrees of murder, manslaughter, criminal negligence et al (and their respective, requisite levels of malice, intent, forseeability etc) maybe it would be better to all do our homework... here are some links.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm

Laws vary from state to state but the appropriate statutes and definitions for Florida can be found here:

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/decisions/probin/sc07-2324_Report.pdf

Not true. Negligent homicide could be the charge. That is, an accident could have been prevented if Casey had been paying more attention to her daughter than the computer and cell phone.

"Homicide" is a conveniently broad term.

HOMICIDE
There is a spectrum of legally determined categories within this "homicide" manner of death. From a legal-justice standpoint, "murder" is a designation reserved for deaths caused by another as part of a malicious act. The below could change according to new judicial opinions or laws and might vary from state to state. But the information is offered in order to show how designations tend to be stratified. To prove "murder", one must demonstrate that the act of the defendant was done with MALICE in causing the death of another, malice being of 3 varieties:
intent to kill; or,
intent to do great bodily harm (but a death occurred); or,
action reflecting a wanton and willful disregard of the likelihood that the natural tendency of the defendant's act is to cause death or great bodily harm, that is, a depraved-heart/depraved-mind murder.
MURDER, first degree: depending on the state, this is a deliberate and premeditated killing (deliberate/premeditated murder); and/or, in some states, killing in the act of an intentional felony (felony murder). Murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait, or other willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration, or attempt to perpetrate arson, criminal sexual conduct in first or third degree, robbery, breaking and entering of a dwelling, larceny of any kind, extortion, or kidnapping.
MURDER, second degree: a killing unintentionally but recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life. A criminal homicide constitutes murder of the second degree when it is committed while defendant was engaged as a principal or an accomplice in the perpetration of a felony.
MURDER, depraved-heart/depraved mind: (defined) & (see case, below)
MURDER, third degree: a killing in the heat of passion (all other kinds of murder shall be murder of the third degree).
HOMICIDE by child abuse: carries the story that a mother and her boyfriend have just been charged for the death of her 9 month old son, Jaquan Perry who died on 21 Sept. 2000 from complications of a beating at least 2 days prior. Autopsy showed evidence of healed fractures from previous beatings.
Homicide by criminal recklessness: The Atlanta Journal Constitution, 24 June 2000, page A4: Nashville, Indiana. Dorothy Stewart, 71 year old census worker killed by a pack of dogs owned by Wayne Newton and Joann Latvaitis. Investigators charged them with "homicide by criminal recklessness".
Homicide by criminal negligence:18 Nov. 2000, page A4, The State (Columbia, S. C. newspaper): Vail, Colorado. Nathan Hall, now 21 years old, was charged with reckless manslaughter [possible 16 year jail term] for the death of 33 year-old Alan Cobb in 1997. Hall, a ski lift operator at Vail Resort that winter, collided with Cobb while skiing extremely fast in poor ski conditions as Hall left his work shift. Cobb died shortly of head injuries. After 18 hours of deliberation, the jury found Hall guilty, instead, of "criminally negligent homicide".
Homicide by depraved indifference: The State (Columbia, S. C. newspaper), 12 March 2004, page A5, "Twins' mother refused surgery, faces charges", by Alexandria Sage of AP. Melissa Ann Rowland refused to have a C-section even though one twin showed signs of serious distress...because she did not want a scar. Said to have refused advice of 5 doctors in Salt Lake City, Utah (baby boy delivered dead on 13 January 2004...baby girl alive).
FELONY DUI...vehicular homicide: The State (Columbia, S. C. newspaper), 9 July 2000, page A5: Audrey Kishline, author of "Moderate Drinking: The New Option for Problem Drinkers" and former opponent of Alcoholics Anonymous' style of total abstinence, recently pled guilty to two counts of vehicular homicide. After a binge-drinking episode in March in which she was so intoxicated that she barely remembered climbing into her pickup truck, this 43 year old woman headed the wrong way down an interstate highway near Cle Elum (in central Washington state) and smashed head-on into a car. The wreck killed 38 year old Danny Davis (an electrician) and his 12 year old daughter, LaSchell. Kishline's blood alcohol was three times the legal limit. Though the maximum penalty there is life imprisonment, prosecutors are asking for only 4 + years because she pledges to recant her book and carry out a campaign against drunk driving. [check out Mothers Against Drunk Driving]
HOMICIDE, reckless:
HOMICIDE, in self defense, but with grave recklessness:
HOMICIDE, in self-defense:
MANSLAUGHTER, voluntary:
MANSLAUGHTER, in self defense, but with grave recklessness:
MANSLAUGHTER, in self defense:
MANSLAUGHTER, involuntary: The State (Columbia, S. C. newspaper), 2 February 2000: Frank Paul Speagle, 22 years old, of Winnsboro, South Carolina became the first person in that state's history charged in the killing of a person by dogs. In December 1999, his two pit bulls attacked and killed John Mickle, 45 years old. Mickle bled to death after the dogs bit him all over his body, tearing off a section of his left leg. A maximum possible sentence is of 11 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. A jury trial found him innocent on 20 Sept. 2000.
Guilty but mentally ill (for any of the above): The State (Columbia, S. C. newspaper), 15 June 2000: Miles W. Porter, 40 years old, caused a collision that killed 43 year old Arlene Protin in Lexington County, South Carolina. Judge Henry McKellar sentenced Porter to 18 years in prison and a $15,000 fine. Porter is said to suffer from manic depression and entered a plea of "guilty but mentally ill". That means that he will be treated in a prison psychiatric unit until he is fit to be released into the general prison population.
Capital punishment death
Assisted suicide: Pathologist, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, by the end of 1998 acknowledged helping at least 130 ill people commit suicide.
Munchhausen syndrome by proxy: This is a situation in which, say, a mother (almost without knowing she is doing it) creates illnesses in a child in order to satisfy a deep, hidden craving for attention. Children sometimes die of the induced illnesses...a death directly caused by the actions of another.
Fetal homicide: Accidental killing/manslaughter: By common convention, an unavoidable killing of another person by a sober person responsibly going about his/her business is legally considered to be an accidental manner of death...not homicide. This was one of the types of situations leading to the creation of the "cities of refuge" (Numbers 35:9-34) in the ancient Israel of the Bible.
Wrongful death: This term implies/involves a civil action against the alleged "killer" for the purpose of the family of the deceased attempting to recover civil damages.
Death by "living will" and/or DNR (do not resusitate)...such as in hospice-like situations: in these situations...clearly covered in personal written legal directions, families and the medical system and society decide not to resuscitate or carry on life-saving/maintaining activities. The person dies a "homicidal death" in that life could have been maintained.
Death by "living will-like" and/or DNR-like...such as in hospice-like situations without written authority: uncontested...under medical care and with family aware & OK (without admitted protest) and with physician assuring that condition is terminal and patient comatose: this has been a common and classical situation in the medical arena since there has been any organized system of medical care. Patient is allowed to die & any medications for pain or comfort may hasten the process.
contested, non-legal...under medical care and with family aware & with mixed permission by spouse and/or next of kin and with physician assuring that condition is terminal and patient comatose: this has been a common and classical situation in the medical arena since there has been any organized system of medical care. Families may end up in bitter disputes and feelings for years to come because there were firm differences about what to do. This is what living wills, DNR orders, and health care powers of attorney (above) hope to avoid.
contested, legal: under medical care and with family aware & into the legal system and with physician assuring that condition is terminal but patient not clearly "at death's door": this has been a rare situation in the medical arena and was brought to public view leading to Easter 2005 with the Terri Schindler Schiavo case. I think that the legal system should (1) require testimony as to the patient's wishes be through a lie detector interview and (2) that the system always err on the side of maintaining life.
Death during a medical mishap: By convention, most of these are considered "natural" because the patient's disease put them into the situation. But, circumstances could be tied directly & clearly enough to the actions or inactions of a practitioner that the death might be ruled an accidental homicide.
Death by self abuse or high-risk behavior: By convention, most deaths due to a persons reckless or carefully-considered high-risk behavior are ruled accidental or natural


Broad indeed--conveniently, necessarily, and appropriately in the absence eg of tissue, broken bones, or to date, any known COD. Covers a vast array of circumstances and in this case evidently left open-ended specifically as to malice and intent on KC's part. I find it both significant and somewhat confusing that a jury has been initially provided by the State options of both manslaughter (by definition 'accidental') as well as capital murder (so which is their theory, first degree murder... or manslaughter?) This would appear a concession in the absence of a confession, or COD, to permit the jury a lesser included--and may also be amended in future based upon further findings.

It would also seem almost inevitable that the ME's opinion would be subject to varying degrees of pressure by the public particularly in high profile case. It is based upon not only medical findings at crime scene and autopsy and is necessarily 'fluid' pending future reports (toxicology eg) but in most jurisdictions takes into consideration findings by LE and furthermore, can apparently be changed ultimately to reflect subsequent findings by the judicial system. JMO
 
With all this talk about what may have happened to Caylee, what I haven't heard or read has been what will the defense say? And if this is in another thread, my apologies.

As of now, they still stick with the premise that Casey gave Caylee to Zenaida on the 16th of June; she "went off to work", came back, knocked on the door, no one answers, she calls, number is disconnected, and then she starts her search for her daughter all on her own. The story has embellished a bit to - I think the story now is that Casey was pushed down by Zenaida on the street while she snatched up Caylee and drove away. And Casey doesn't dare talk to the police or anyone for fear that Zenaida will kill Caylee. And the defense will say that's exactly what happened to Caylee.

The defense will have quite a few problems:
- the incessant lies of Casey (her job, where she met Zenaida, the apartment, the lies she told her family and friends about where Caylee was, etc). they can argue she's 22 and dumb, but not criminal minded.

- the car. The car itself is the greatest albatross - it has decomposition in it and it's been verified by the tow truck folks, Cindy, George and even Casey herself that it stank to high heaven - as if there were a dead body. The defense will have to attack the DNA evidence (there was no decomposition), the chain of command (i.e. what the dream team did for OJ - that the evidence was mishandled and should be thrown out), or perhaps disconnect that the decomp and the DNA matching it to Caylee can be put together (which I think is impossible, but they will try). Even if they get over that great mountain, how do they explain Casey's actions in trying to get rid of the car and the lies surrounding it?

- the cellphone supposedly containing Zenaida's number. it's the only real link Casey has in proving there was a Zenaida. In her first interview she says she had two phones - her personal phone and the fictional one at her "office". She took out the sim card from her office phone and put it in her actual phone, but according to her, Zenaida's number is still in the "office" phone. I haven't researched this, but I think this is bullcrap. The sim card is the brains of the phone - without it, you can't call and you can't store anything in it. Likewise, if you pop a new sim card in a phone, you should have all the information, like phone numbers, in it. There could be format problems, i.e. if you have a Nokia phone and you try to put in a Samsung sim in it, the OS of the nokia phone may not accept the info from the Samsung sim, though you could conceivably still make calls. Even if what she said is true, she would surely know her own "office" phone number, wouldn't she? Of course not. What about the service provider of the "office" phone, so you can research the numbers through billing? Defense will have to prove she had another number. Also, Casey said herself that she received a call from Zenaida in July where she heard Caylee's voice. So what phone did Zeniada call? The office or her real phone?

- the physical evidence from the remains: the bag and the duct tape. I think that's what we're all waiting for - are there fingerprints of Casey and are there other fingerprints present? this alone can either be the final blow to Casey or be the only out for her, if there are other fingerprints present. I hope to God that guy who found the bag didn't touch the tape. The defense can easily say he put it there. If not, Casey will have to explain why her fingerprints are on the bag and tape.

- her actions. The partying, the tattoo, "everybody lies, everybody dies", etc. If this is going to be a circumstantial evidence trial, then the case will hinge on who the jury believes. As of now, there isn't anyone save Cindy who believes anything Casey says. The defense will do whatever they can to clean up her image, but i think it's close to impossible. The next best thing is to dirty up the image of LE.

LE has to make all the right moves, follow procedure and make no mistakes. One mistake can exonerate Casey Anthony.
 
The charge of negligent homicide does exist and it was used in the case I noted yesterday in this post on this thread. Kamilyn Hadley, the Clearfield mother who accidentally left her child in a hot car last month, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor negligent homicide today.

Also, from Wikipedia:The ME does not bring the specific charge - the prosecution does. The ME ruled the death a homicide, but it is up to the prosecution to decide what charges to bring, and "negligent homicide" is an option, as are the varying degrees of manslaughter.

(bold mine) PRECISELY PERFECTLY TRUE ITA JWG thank you for continuing to be a voice of reason, we need you!!!
 
That has bothered me too.... and I think she called around to leave a phone trail. I think she knew her parents could not call back for whatever reason.

I haven't done much research on the phone records. If you are really wondering about this, I would look into (or ask people who have looked into) phone records preceding this date, and see what kind of pattern there is on calls between Casey and parents.
Lanie
 
This is just awful!!

I believe that Casey planned this. Shame on her! For those of you that don't think Casey could have because you have seen pictures with Caylee, and they were loving pictures... just remember the pictures the Scott and Laci Peterson had....

God Bless you Caylee....
 
WHAT IF..... some are getting close to this.... but....

There are men who actually stalk young women with children in hopes they will get close to them, etc. I assume you know what I mean. They desire children. Was Casey crazy enough to allow such a thing to happen with Caylee and could possibly something have gone wrong. What would you say?? What would you do??
 
WHAT IF..... some are getting close to this.... but....

There are men who actually stalk young women with children in hopes they will get close to them, etc. I assume you know what I mean. They desire children. Was Casey crazy enough to allow such a thing to happen with Caylee and could possibly something have gone wrong. What would you say?? What would you do??

Well I certainly would not cover for someone who victimized and murdered my child. However I would beg for the death penalty, or dispatch myself, because I would certainly no longer want to live. That said I see no evidence, nor indication that anyone else is responsible for what happened to Caylee but Casey herself. If she is covering for someone who did something horrible to her child that is to me equally dispicable.
 
I really don't want to offend anyone, but I just can't believe anyone can try to make up "reasons" or excuses on why Casey didn't or couldn't have killed her child. I know no one wants to believe she would do something so horrible but she did. It happens all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I guess I'm just really surprised that after all we know (even though there are a lot of things we still do not know) that anyone can believe she didn't do this.
 
I really don't want to offend anyone, but I just can't believe anyone can try to make up "reasons" or excuses on why Casey didn't or couldn't have killed her child. I know no one wants to believe she would do something so horrible but she did. It happens all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I guess I'm just really surprised that after all we know (even though there are a lot of things we still do not know) that anyone can believe she didn't do this.

I don't think anyone is trying to make up reasons or excuses. When I first began examining this case I believed she must have been guilty of planning and executing this crime, based on what I had seen on Nancy Grace and Greta. However, I gradually arrived at my own conclusions based on the evidence made available (document dumps, videos) - not rumors. If more evidence is released that supports charges of premeditated murder, I will gladly accept that.
 
I don't think anyone is trying to make up reasons or excuses. When I first began examining this case I believed she must have been guilty of planning and executing this crime, based on what I had seen on Nancy Grace and Greta. However, I gradually arrived at my own conclusions based on the evidence made available (document dumps, videos) - not rumors. If more evidence is released that supports charges of premeditated murder, I will gladly accept that.

Couldn't agree with you more.
 
I don't think anyone is trying to make up reasons or excuses. When I first began examining this case I believed she must have been guilty of planning and executing this crime, based on what I had seen on Nancy Grace and Greta. However, I gradually arrived at my own conclusions based on the evidence made available (document dumps, videos) - not rumors. If more evidence is released that supports charges of premeditated murder, I will gladly accept that.

Ok, you're right. "Trying to make up reasons and excuses" was a poor way to phrase it. I guess I have the opposite impression though. I always felt KC was guilty, however, at first I had a tiny bit of thought that *maybe* it was an accident and she panicked, but after reading all of the doc dumps and other things, I now do NOT believe it was an accident. I think she meant to kill her. The only thing I don't know YET is whether it was premediated for months in advance or if it was done out of rage. I think the biggest thing that shocks me are the people (again, who have every right to their opinion) who feel that she is covering for someone else or that Jessie had something to do with it or that someone did kidnap Caylee and then kill her. I just dont see how anyone can think KC didn't do it, whether it was an accident or premeditated.
 
I really don't want to offend anyone, but I just can't believe anyone can try to make up "reasons" or excuses on why Casey didn't or couldn't have killed her child. I know no one wants to believe she would do something so horrible but she did. It happens all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I guess I'm just really surprised that after all we know (even though there are a lot of things we still do not know) that anyone can believe she didn't do this.

It is precisely those who rest upon facts and are unwilling to expound on them, to fictionalize and fill in the missing gaps by "making up" anything who (having not been there personally to witness firsthand precisely whatever "this" was) prefer instead to reserve judgment until knowing the totality of evidence. Furthermore, that isn't to say those unwilling to hang her for murder 1 just yet are incapable of believing KC guilty of a host of other crimes, but rather that some of us just distinguish between crimes--and therefore may have already been convinced of KC eg having hindered an investigation, tampered w evidence, made false statements and even hidden her daughter's corpse and staged a cover-up--while yet to be convinced of premeditated malice or murder. Few would argue w the balance of charges, it is the precipitating event about which one or two of us have patiently reserved judgment. JMO
 
WHAT IF..... some are getting close to this.... but....

There are men who actually stalk young women with children in hopes they will get close to them, etc. I assume you know what I mean. They desire children. Was Casey crazy enough to allow such a thing to happen with Caylee and could possibly something have gone wrong. What would you say?? What would you do??

In such a case, assuming Casey is not a sociopath (IMO she is), wouldn't she want to bring to justice whoever did this rather than making up convoluted stories that she couldn't back up with evidence? OTOH, if she knowingly gave Caylee to someone like this, she would be just as culpable as the actual sicko, IMO.

Changing the subject a bit, I don't know why Casey would make a "flurry of calls" to her parents if she was mad at her mother from the fight on the 15th. If it was an accident and she found Caylee dead in the pool or something, why would she call, even in a state of panic, her mother, whom she knew would say "told you so, you're a no-good mother."
 
I see no reason whatsoever to give KC the benefit of the doubt by promoting an accidental death/panicked cover up theory.

She is charged with first degree murder. Apparently, I have the same opinion as the investigators who have actually been in the same room with KC, talked to everyone involved by virtue of being unwitting witnesses and have seen ALL the evidence - not just what was released to the public.

Speculate until the cows come home, but the truth is much more ugly than the hopeful scenario of an accidental death. It was intentional murder, plain and simple.

KC never once attempted to claim Caylee died as the result of negligence or accident, despite the fact that she was given the opportunity to do so by LE and that her attorney has given her all the wiggle room possible by telling her the consequences of negligent homicide versus intentional homicide. She didn't "reach out" for that life ring, instead she continues with the June 9th Nanny kidnapping story. Why? Because the child was murdered and she wants the murder pinned on Nanny.

This is a woman whose child was missing for 31 days, she never reported it, told nothing but lies to those who were trying to find her child and then was furious with LE for arresting her on a "f-ing whim". This is a woman who does not understand why failing to report her missing child and lying to LE is such a big deal, especially after she told LE she knows how stupid it was and promises to never do it again. She even stated something like "If this ever happens again, I will call LE right away." Oh. Right. Ok.

I am so glad she learned her lesson, but I don't think she will have the opportunity to show anyone how much she learned.

She is as dumb as they come and I still think she is mentally challenged. If I were Baez I would be scrambling to get an IQ test to show that she does not have the mental accuity to comprehend what she has done or the consequences of such acts. She operates at a basic level, below which she would need someone to button her shirt. I have yet to hear of her ever doing anything that indicates intelligence. Here are her big accomplishments at age 22:

She almost graduated from HS with her friends, but not quite.
She sold film or took photos at Universal on a part time, maybe even seasonal basis.
She can text message.
She can drive a car.
She can steal.
She can use her friend's stolen checks but signs her own name as the payor.
She can get pregnant and deliver a baby.

These are the most basic of endeavors. There is nothing intelligent about this beast.
 
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