Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

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Which Listed Below Did Caylee Die From?


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I wonder if George was even home late morning, early afternoon on June 16th.
The timeline evidence would fit Casey leaving at 12:50pm, however, the cell pings never leave the area of the house, and it looks like she was back by 2pm, if she ever left at all. If George had to be at work at 3, and it only took him 20 minutes to get there, how did she know it was safe to be back at 2?
I've never felt George was telling the truth about June 16th, and it has also never felt right Casey would go to all the trouble to leave so she could hide out for an hour until George left the house, just to go right back.
I believe, backed by the evidence, Casey killed Caylee, deliberately, and Caylee was dead and in the trunk of the car by the time she left after 4pm.
I have looked all over for George's cell pings, but can't find them. I also remember someone saying George wasn't home June 16th, but have no verification on this.
Does anyone know anything about this? If his story is inaccurate, it really changes the timeline.
BTW, my theory of deliberate, planned killing does not depend on George being there or not at 12:50.
Lanie

I believe that someone here said that the night KC left GA said he was watching his favorite "Food Channel" show and CA ribbed him and he said he was watching the news. I believe this happened on LK but I'm not sure.

If they are trying to change that to fit their time line then it wouldn't surprise me if other times were effed with.
 
George's e-pass records show he was out of the house in the morning of the 16th. I cannot recall precisely what time he returned, but this information is in a sticky.
 
I couldn't agree more and I do not think Caylee drown. I was just throwing the question out there because JB is going to come up with some reason this all happened and he's going to try to spoon feed it to the jury. In my gut I have a feeling this is the direction he will go. While I agree that nothing short of cold blooded murder explains the duct tape and absolutely nothing explains KC's bizarre behavior and all of her lies. JB still has to come up with something to defend her. I wonder what it's going to be.


They dont have to come up with an alternate reason, all they have to do is instill in the jury reasonable doubt that what the state says happened, did not.

If they are smart what they are going to do is keep pointing out over and over how it could have been anyone except KC that killed her, that it didnt have to be KC, that another person could be involved and they dont have to say who.

I think they are so far beyond accident that they wont even try it. Plus if they try it, they have to put her on the stand. She is the last person on earth a lawyer wants on the stand. If she was going the accident route, she would plea out which I feel she would never do.
 
George's e-pass records show he was out of the house in the morning of the 16th. I cannot recall precisely what time he returned, but this information is in a sticky.

I just looked at those epass records the other day, and all I remember seeing is what looks like a couple of trips to Mt. Dora. I'll look them up again, thanks.
Lanie
 
George's e-pass records show he was out of the house in the morning of the 16th. I cannot recall precisely what time he returned, but this information is in a sticky.

When I look at the e-pass records I don't see any activity for the June 16th. I see a payment made on June 16th and a lot of activity for June 15th. Maybe I'm missing something?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/ganthony epass.pdf
 
When I look at the e-pass records I don't see any activity for the June 16th. I see a payment made on June 16th and a lot of activity for June 15th. Maybe I'm missing something?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/ganthony epass.pdf

IIRC you are correct. There was some errors on here where the same date in July was confused with June and it got embedded in the posts as a WS Urban Myth.

That's good to know, because I know I looked specifically at June 16th, and didn't remember seeing a thing. Thanks for the link, BTW.
So, George could have been home, or not at home. Wish we had his cell phone pings.
This case is so much more difficult because you can't really take what anyone says at face value.
Casey says "31 days". If you count back, including July 15th, that makes it June 15th. On July 16th, she says "32 days", so she is very specific with that count. But again, we are talking Casey.??
I just can't see Caylee being killed on June 15th in the house. Way too risky, and it seems as if the dogs would have hit inside the house had she been in there that long dead. Maybe Casey thought there were 31 days in June?
Lanie
 
Will just hafta explain it all later, but, here's a Cliff's notes version of my current speculation based on all available information as I understand it...

1) Caylee died as the result of cumulative overdose of Rx and/or chloroform, having been sedated (up to) a third time in 1day on 6/16 :(
2) Time of death: ~7:30PM 6/16 :(
3) Location of death: Pontiac @/near Tony's apt. :(
4) Casey cks on Caylee and finds her dead ~11:17PM & powers her phone down. Talks Tony into skipping classes @ Full Sail 6/17 (to comfort her).
5) Body bagged in laundry bag @ G&C's 6/17
6) Body bagged in plastic and moved into Tony's Jeep 6/19PM ~7:30PM after visit w/ Chris S. awaiting sundown and establishing alibi
7) Body disposed on Suburban Dr after 7:30PM but closer to 9:02PM when she powered her phone up while driving back to Tony's apt.

ETA: Thanks to JWG for spotting a ping location error in the cell log. I corrected #4 to reflect.
 
Will just hafta explain it all later, but, here's a Cliff's notes version of my current speculation based on all available information as I understand it...

1) Caylee died as the result of cumulative overdose of Rx and/or chloroform, having been sedated (up to) a third time in 1day on 6/16 :(
2) Time of death: ~7:30PM 6/16 :(
3) Location of death: Pontiac @/near Tony's apt. :(
4) Casey finds Caylee dead ~10:30PM ck'g on her, drives away to examine, & returns to Tony's @ 11:17PM & powers her phone down
5) Body bagged in laundry bag @ G&C's 6/17
6) Body bagged in plastic and moved into Tony's Jeep 6/19PM ~7:30PM after visit w/ Chris S. awaiting sundown and establishing alibi
7) Body disposed on Suburban Dr after 7:30PM but closer to 9:02PM when she powered her phone up while driving back to Tony's apt.


Wow Bond this is the most different theory I've heard in awhile, I'm anxiously looking forward to more info!
 
Will just hafta explain it all later, but, here's a Cliff's notes version of my current speculation based on all available information as I understand it...

1) Caylee died as the result of cumulative overdose of Rx and/or chloroform, having been sedated (up to) a third time in 1day on 6/16 :(
2) Time of death: ~7:30PM 6/16 :(
3) Location of death: Pontiac @/near Tony's apt. :(
4) Casey finds Caylee dead ~10:30PM ck'g on her, drives away to examine, & returns to Tony's @ 11:17PM & powers her phone down
5) Body bagged in laundry bag @ G&C's 6/17
6) Body bagged in plastic and moved into Tony's Jeep 6/19PM ~7:30PM after visit w/ Chris S. awaiting sundown and establishing alibi
7) Body disposed on Suburban Dr after 7:30PM but closer to 9:02PM when she powered her phone up while driving back to Tony's apt.

Wow, thats good. Do we know if they ever checked AL's vehicle for anything suspicious? My cable connection has been sketchy the last several days so I haven't been able to read all the new docs yet or been able to keep up on all the current WS talk. Cable guys coming Sat and they are gonna be so welcomed! ha
 
I don't believe that KC was alone when the death/murder of Caylee occurred.
*(Obvious choices would be TonE or RM.)*

I don't believe that KC was alone at the time of the disposal of Caylee's remains. *(Again, obvious choices would be TonE or RM)*

I don't believe KC would actually bury Caylee in her parents backyard..."evidence" maybe but, not Caylee's remains. *(1st...IF KC were acting alone then, I don't think she would have had the strength or time to dig a deep enough grave plus, the odor would have eventually surfaced causing suspicion by the A's.)*

I don't believe that Caylee drowned. *(But, I do believe that KC may have attempted a fake an accidental drowning "post-mortem".)

Here's what I'm more inclined to believe:

Caylee's death may have been the result of an overdose from an RX or illegal substance used to quiet Caylee while KC was at play with TonE. TonE may have been aware of KC's means to accomplish this and both conspired together *(Blockbuster Movie Research) after the fact to hide & dispose of Caylee plus, come up with a kidnap scenario *(ZFG)*.

OR...

KC acted alone & intended to murder Caylee *(due to the Internet Searches for Chloroform, Neck Breaking, etc.) and then planned to stage it as an accident or kidnapping to free herself from the responsibilities of a child.

As a bonus, she'd garner the sympathy & positive attention of her parents that she seemed to get little of anymore...granted she did nothing to be deserving of either!
 
Will just hafta explain it all later, but, here's a Cliff's notes version of my current speculation based on all available information as I understand it...

1) Caylee died as the result of cumulative overdose of Rx and/or chloroform, having been sedated (up to) a third time in 1day on 6/16 :(
2) Time of death: ~7:30PM 6/16 :(
3) Location of death: Pontiac @/near Tony's apt. :(
4) Casey cks on Caylee and finds her dead ~11:17PM & powers her phone down. Talks Tony into skipping classes @ Full Sail 6/17 (to comfort her).
5) Body bagged in laundry bag @ G&C's 6/17
6) Body bagged in plastic and moved into Tony's Jeep 6/19PM ~7:30PM after visit w/ Chris S. awaiting sundown and establishing alibi
7) Body disposed on Suburban Dr after 7:30PM but closer to 9:02PM when she powered her phone up while driving back to Tony's apt.

ETA: Thanks to JWG for spotting a ping location error in the cell log. I corrected #4 to reflect.

Bumping the edited version.
Doogiesgirl, there were two stains identified in the cargo area of Tony's Jeep, and like the stain in the Pontiac, they were tested to determine if they were blood, and like the stain in the Pontiac, that test was negative.
 
Bumping the edited version.
Doogiesgirl, there were two stains identified in the cargo area of Tony's Jeep, and like the stain in the Pontiac, they were tested to determine if they were blood, and like the stain in the Pontiac, that test was negative.

But...do we know if they were tested for decomp? Test results?
 
Bumping the edited version.
Doogiesgirl, there were two stains identified in the cargo area of Tony's Jeep, and like the stain in the Pontiac, they were tested to determine if they were blood, and like the stain in the Pontiac, that test was negative.

Also, do we know if the "laundry bag" that Caylee was placed in was what KC may have purchased (replacement laundry bag) using CA's Penney's charge card after she went missing?
 
OK…not pretty, but, it is what it is. Just telling this like it came to me…I’ll sprinkle in some background info where I think it might help…everything IMHO - however, the conclusions I draw are supported by case information…some mo’ better than others :)

In grabbing some handwriting samples from Casey’s handwritten statement to compare to the ZG signature on the traffic appearance I notice a couple of things. First, Casey scratched out a couple of words regarding the time she dropped Caylee w/ ZG on Monday, 6/9. Second, Casey wrote her last contact w/ ZG was on Thursday, 6/12. Both of these intrigued me…why hadn’t I probed them before?

Casey scratched out the words “at one” as in o’clock, in favor of writing between 9AM and 1PM, IIRC. Now we have George’s much debated statement ‘bout Casey & Caylee leaving @ 12:50PM just like any other day. We also have cell pings for both 6/9 and 6/15, and we have computer forensics for 6/16.

We also have statements that Cindy had kept Caylee on her vacation that ended 6/8, yet, Casey skipped out on their time together. So, Casey was effectively MIA as far as Caylee-care was concerned ~6/3- 6/9. Much supports that Caylee was effectively away from G&C’s 6/10-6/14. See the 6/10-6/14 thread for a statistical analysis that supports Casey was staying at a location north of G&C’s, but, within the same cell ping area during the nights of this period. Note that there are 3 towers that sorta form a triangle around G&C’s and Lee’s (former) homes. From that analysis I conclude that Casey used Lee’s house to keep Caylee at night. This was a week of transition for Casey…from Ricardo to Tony. The relationship with Tony was still new at this point. Casey may have stolen away to Tony’s apartment for a few hours at a time in the middle of the night for rendezvous 6/10-6/14 leaving Caylee @ Lee’s, but, Casey essentially stayed nights w/ Caylee @ Lee’s.

On both Fusian Fridays, 6/6 and 6/13, Casey was calling/being called by G&C in the wee hours of the morning and subsequently went home. This behavior, plus skipping out on Cindy’s vacation, which included her 50th bday, 6/5, likely fueled fights #1 & 2, Sundays, 6/7 and 6/15.

When we look at an individual day, there aren’t enough cell ping data points to make a statistical conclusion ‘bout Casey bein’ @ G&C’s or Lee’s, but, when I looked closer @ 6/8-6/9 and 6/15-6/16 I noted that there are periods of a sometimes more than a dozen pings in a row that strike the northern tower nearer Lee’s home. Typically, the pings bounce back and forth between 2 towers – one more southern and the other more northern. For these periods when a long stretch of pings strike the northern tower, I believe Casey was taking refuge @ Lee’s. I can’t detail them here, but, suffice it to say Casey appeared to goto Lee’s 6/8PM moreso than 6/15PM…and did, indeed, appear to spend the night @ G&C’s on 6/15, which agrees with Cindy’s account.

On the computer forensics thread, JWG, used Casey’s prolific PhotoBucket upload behavior to support that Caylee was likely napping between 1PM-3PM each day. I contend that Casey’s cell call data supports the same. On both, 6/9 and 6/15 Casey’s string of northern cell pings support that she left G&C’s and went to Lee’s while Caylee napped. There Casey made long phone calls. This is in agreement w/ George’s account of Casey leaving like any other day, and, in fact, harkens back to Casey’s scratched out handwritten statement of leaving Caylee “at one”.

JUNE 9:

On 6/9 Casey took Caylee to Lee’s. Between 12:55PM and 3:17PM….15 of 16 pings hit the northern tower nearer Lee’s. Casey had an uncommon text exchange w/ Lee @ 1:24PM-1:36PM. This was perhaps a message reminding Casey to lock the house when she left.
At 3:36PM & 3:43PM Casey texted Amy ‘bout Caylee’s potting training, supporting that Caylee was awake. Interestingly, also @ 3:36 & 3:43PM Casey texts Lee & Tony …likely same potty training comment. Noteworthy that Cindy and George aren’t included in the news.

A 4:55PM a call to Tony is followed by a 6/9 “flurry” - 5 calls to Cindy in ~3 mins! Cindy called Casey @ 5:42PM and likely delivered the “no, I’m not keeping Caylee tonight” message. Between the two Casey called Don Reid Ford (Annie)…perhaps seeking Caylee-Care. This behavior suggests to me that the purpose of the “flurry” calls were, indeed, to establish Caylee-Care for the night…not S.O.S. calls. This 6/9 flurry included some 1min +/1 connects…on hold? or arguing ‘cause Casey wants to drop Caylee and Cindy had her the entire week prior on her vacation.

All of these events bear a striking resemblance to the events of 6/16…

JUNE 16:

Again, Casey went to Lee’s, only slightly earlier than 6/9. From 11:47AM until 3:04PM the duration of calls suggests Caylee was napping. 18 of 22 (not counting vmails that don’t have location associated) calls between 11:47AM and 4:14PM…which includes the “flurry” calls. Are carried by Tower 22. This suggests Casey placed the first 6/16 flurry of calls from Lee’s and that the pool wasn’t involved in any ‘accident’.

We also have computer forensics info for 6/16 to use with the cell ping data, and it supports that Casey left G&C’s 12-2PM on Monday, 6/16, yet, she returned between 2-3PM when G&C’s computer is active again. Casey returned to G&C’s while Caylee napped @ Lee’s. Specifically, using the cell data, Casey went to G&C’s for ~30mins 6/16 between 2:20-2:52PM. Casey may have dosed Caylee @ Lee’s to ensure she remained ‘asleep’.

IMHO, the above suggests the timing of George’s account better describes 6/9 vs. 6/15.

Extrapolating the behavior from 6/6…now on 6/16:
“Flurry 1” 4:10=>4:25PM calls were for “Need you to keep Caylee tonight”
Failure to get Cindy to take Caylee, Casey may have dosed her to enable the trip to Tony’s

“Flurry 2” 6:31=>6:33PM Flurry of calls…prior to the Blockbuster visit… w/ no luck… resulted in dosing Caylee to enable the Blockbuster trip alone with Tony

At 7:06PM Casey reached Cindy @ home for 1.4mins conversation…apparently another, “no”

At 7:20 & 7:21PM Casey placed 2 calls to Amy…last ditch effort…Amy wasn’t feeling well that night…another strike out…which resulted in another/final dosing of Caylee to enable 3-4 hrs of movie watching. The last dosage to enable Blockbuster visit may not have been enough to keep Caylee out. Perhaps Casey returned to find Caylee crying. For the next dosing, duct tape is placed over Caylee’s mouth in case she awakens. Since this is the longest duration Casey has attempted…she’s unsure of the dosage, but, perhaps ups it…this increased final dosage is alone fatal…or…the cumulative dose for the day is fatal…or…combination of different Rx’s is fatal.

After the movies were over, sometime around 11PM, Casey went to the Pontiac trunk to check on Caylee. She may already have had the chloroform bottle open ready to dose Caylee again – as she intended to spend the night and this seemed to be working so far - until she found Caylee’s body. She spilled more contents of the bottle into the trunk shaking Caylee in denial. Perhaps Casey retreated from the additional fumes, and/or, in apathy from smoking that night, combined w/ her deeply embedded victim status, Casey turned off her cell phone and went to Tony for comfort…he was none the wiser.

10:52AM 6/17…Casey powered up her phone and got an immediate text that notified her of vmail which she checked, then, she called Amy. The afternoon of 6/17 afforded Casey the opportunity to return to G&C’s, back into the garage, and survey the tragegy. Caylee had been bedded down in the trunk in her Winnie the Pooh blanket. Her body was placed in a laundry bag without thought/knowledge of the impending decomposition.

A detailed analysis of the trunk temperatures and a 6/16 7:20PM death yields ADD results that give the date & time to bag the body as 6/19 between 7-8PM.

Checking Casey’s cell log for this time period I find Casey inactive for 3 hours from 5:45PM (near Fusian) =>9:02PM (near Amscot) and may have powered off her phone since the 9:02PM ping is an incoming text. This period is in agreement with Chris S. statement of Casey visiting him at his house 5'ish in Tony’s Jeep for an hour or so. Forensics on Tony’s Jeep indicated 2 small stains in the cargo area that were not blood, similar to the Pontiac. Casey likely waited for sundown, then, used Tony’s black Jeep to take the now re-bagged body to the disposal location on Suburban Drive.

The alleged Thursday, 6/12, final contact with ZG per Casey’s handwritten statement was, simply, akin to Monday 6/15 => Monday 6/9 - a one-week transfer of the date Caylee’s body was bagged & disposed…outta sight…outta mind.
 
After the movies were over, sometime around 11PM, Casey went to the Pontiac trunk to check on Caylee. She may already have had the chloroform bottle open ready to dose Caylee again – as she intended to spend the night and this seemed to be working so far - until she found Caylee’s body. She spilled more contents of the bottle into the trunk shaking Caylee in denial. Perhaps Casey retreated from the additional fumes, and/or, in apathy from smoking that night, combined w/ her deeply embedded victim status, Casey turned off her cell phone and went to Tony for comfort…he was none the wiser.

It was the middle of June, pretty close to the summer solstice, what would the temperatures have been like in that trunk that night? NWS lists a high temp for 6/15 at Orlando Executive of 92 degrees and a low of 73 degrees, high temp for 6/16 90 degrees, low 73 degrees. No hourly reports are available at this time for that far back.

Wouldn't the heat have killed her?
 
It was the middle of June, pretty close to the summer solstice, what would the temperatures have been like in that trunk that night? NWS lists a high temp for 6/15 at Orlando Executive of 92 degrees and a low of 73 degrees, high temp for 6/16 90 degrees, low 73 degrees. No hourly reports are available at this time for that far back.

Wouldn't the heat have killed her?

That's what gets me about the whole dosing Caylee and popping her in the trunk. It is WAY to hot in FL for anyone to survive temps like that in the summer! Even at night. No air flow? She would have surely suffocated with no sedatives needed!
 
It was the middle of June, pretty close to the summer solstice, what would the temperatures have been like in that trunk that night? NWS lists a high temp for 6/15 at Orlando Executive of 92 degrees and a low of 73 degrees, high temp for 6/16 90 degrees, low 73 degrees. No hourly reports are available at this time for that far back.

Wouldn't the heat have killed her?

Pulling from JWG's ADD spreadsheet w/ ambient Orlando T @ 5min intervals and the compensated temperature adjusted for the delta in the trunk and time of day (based on another independent study of this delta)...

@ 7:30PM 6/16

Ambient T = 74.5 F
Trunk T = 86.4 F

Dehydration would certainly be competing w/ o.d. and/or simply a contributing factor that sped death. :(
 
Pulling from JWG's ADD spreadsheet w/ ambient Orlando T @ 5min intervals and the compensated temperature adjusted for the delta in the trunk and time of day (based on another independent study of this delta)...

@ 7:30PM 6/16

Ambient T = 74.5 F
Trunk T = 86.4 F

Dehydration would certainly be competing w/ o.d. and/or simply a contributing factor that sped death. :(
On the face of it I like it a lot. Will read again and think and try real hard to pick holes.

After everything you say up to 17th can we not revert to bits of previous theories (like mine), that is she visited again on 18th borrowed spade and contemplated burial etc.
Dumped body 18th 19th 20th? or even 24th still viable?
 
Very well thought out Bond. Have read it twice and can't find any holes at this point. Will try again after I let it roll around in the old noggin for a while.
 
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