Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[JWG]

A thought just hit me. I think that the time stamp would be when voicemail picks up, IF this is true, then it's possible Casey hears the phone ringing, sends it to voicemail and then immediatly calls voicemail to check her messages while at the same time Cindy is leaving her one. Does that make sense?

No, not in this case. No cell tower handles these two calls, meaning no text or voice transmission occurred with the phone. This was a call from the home phone to KC's phone that went to VM - nothing more. If KC had answered the call or had checked her VM, it would have pinged a cell tower.

 

[Devon]

Caylee could have fell asleep in the car and she carried her in and left the doll in the car seat.

Snipped.

That's also my favoured theory as to why the doll was left in the car. It also fits in with my thoughts (previous post) that Caylee may have been up quite early that day. If so, she may have been having a real good nap and KC may not have wanted to disturb her by juggling a largish doll plus Caylee plus probably a bag/purse as well.

 

[mom2chloe]

This makes me inclined to think that this was a 'wake-up' call. I think if KC was not at home and CA knew it, she would have left some sort of message - 'get your sorry *** back here at once and look after your daughter!' (or something similar).

It's possible that Caylee was already up and that CA may have given her a drink/rusk/biscuit much earlier, but that Caylee either had been (or wanted to be) in disturbing GA, and CA was off to work so wanted to rouse KC. Also the time of the call may not be of any significance, but 7.45 seems like a typical regular 'must be leaving by' sort of time to me.

Given the fact that GA was working again, the parking arrangements at the A home may have changed. If KC's car was parked in the driveway behind CA's Forerunner, the call may have been "get your a$$ up and move the car or where are the f-ing keys?"

 

[steadychick]

The call from the home to the cell did roll into KC's voicemail.

6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey Anthony Casey Voicemail
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy Anthony Casey Anthony

The pattern of calls going to VM in KC's records are easy to spot because they have the following two characteristics:

1. An outgoing call to VM occurring at the identical time as an incoming call. In a couple of cases the outgoing call shows one second later than the incoming.
2. Both calls have no cell tower associated with them.

If the caller leaves a VM, KC's phone will receive a text to that effect roughly a minute later. In the case of the June 16 call above, no VM alert is sent to her phone.

So...that means the next call is at 8:46 AM to AL. Which means KC prolly did not call her phone at 7:45 AM to locate it because she didn't do anything with it after getting it.

So now I need to backtrack a little on my thinking and say I am inclined to believe CA called her before she left for work, possibly to see if she was up yet. Better to use the phone (set to vibrate?) than walk in and possibly wake Caylee.

I copied an excel doc titled Casey Anthony cell records 615 to 716, but don't have a link to it. Perhaps another WS member has it, as it clearly shows a pattern of calls where a call ends at a certain time and a call to voicemail retrieval begins at the same time. For example, on 6-16 --
line 121 7:45:51 call ends Anthony Home to Casey
line 122 7:45:51 call begins Casey to voicemail retrieval

This pattern appears over 24 times (I only counted from 6-16 to 6-26) during this 30 day period. Most often it's associated with calls from the Anthony home. Second most ofter, calls from Mark Hawkins.

To me, it looks like these were calls Casey did not want to answer, she let them go to vm, and them immediately checked her vm. This make sense because several times the record shows Casey calling these people a few minutes later. It also makes sense because if she was with AL during this time, she certainly wouldn't have wanted to answer MH's calls in front of him, and she did mostly answer calls from other friends.

Since this pattern of letting calls go to vm and then checking her vm is so strong, it leads me to believe that this was definitely NOT Casey trying to locate her cell phone on 6-16. I think the evidence points to either Cindy or George calling her that morning. It doesn't clearly answer the question about if she was home or not, but adds some food for thought and speculation.

If someone has a link to this document could you please add it here. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it online again.

 

[steadychick]

Found it! It was in Doc Stop -- http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/Casey_Anthony_cell_records_615_to_716

 

[AZlawyer]

I copied an excel doc titled Casey Anthony cell records 615 to 716, but don't have a link to it. Perhaps another WS member has it, as it clearly shows a pattern of calls where a call ends at a certain time and a call to voicemail retrieval begins at the same time. For example, on 6-16 --
line 121 7:45:51 call ends Anthony Home to Casey
line 122 7:45:51 call begins Casey to voicemail retrieval

This pattern appears over 24 times (I only counted from 6-16 to 6-26) during this 30 day period. Most often it's associated with calls from the Anthony home. Second most ofter, calls from Mark Hawkins.

To me, it looks like these were calls Casey did not want to answer, she let them go to vm, and them immediately checked her vm. This make sense because several times the record shows Casey calling these people a few minutes later. It also makes sense because if she was with AL during this time, she certainly wouldn't have wanted to answer MH's calls in front of him, and she did mostly answer calls from other friends.

Since this pattern of letting calls go to vm and then checking her vm is so strong, it leads me to believe that this was definitely NOT Casey trying to locate her cell phone on 6-16. I think the evidence points to either Cindy or George calling her that morning. It doesn't clearly answer the question about if she was home or not, but adds some food for thought and speculation.

If someone has a link to this document could you please add it here. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it online again.

Because the "calls" to voice mail don't include any cell phone pings, we know these are not actually calls made by KC to check voice mail, but just a virtual "call" from KC's cell phone to her voice mail--i.e., a call to her cell phone being rolled over to her voice mail. KC would not have to do anything at all for this second "call" to be recorded.

 

[AZlawyer]

I've been sitting here thinking about the fact that my personal cell bill wouldn't show the degree of detail that we're seeing here in the docs for Casey re: her cell phone, which explains why I'm not familiar with how my detailed usage re: an incoming call going to voice mail that instant, and now I'm wondering if this explains the call patterns for somoene involved in a case of mine. I haven't spoken to the expert hired to distill the individual's call patterns for me, but I sure have quite a few questions now, thanks to our fine cell experts.

Don't forget to bill for your time reading this thread!!

 

[reeseeva]

Great find. If Cindy moved the bedroom furniture around, she could have moved the phone, too...or maybe not...

Cindy A. thinks she can move anyone & anything around, as she is trying to move Heaven & Hell & part the Red Sea, as witnessed on CBS

She really thinks she is so much smarter than anyone else.:nono:

 

[Skully]

Snipped.

That's also my favoured theory as to why the doll was left in the car. It also fits in with my thoughts (previous post) that Caylee may have been up quite early that day. If so, she may have been having a real good nap and KC may not have wanted to disturb her by juggling a largish doll plus Caylee plus probably a bag/purse as well.

I post back a few pages that I think that may be the reason KC snapped, the doll was not in the house and Caylee wanted it. I figured it was left somewhere from the night before or even in the car. Caylee may have been crying and KC wanted to yak on the phone or be on the computer. If Caylee was shoeless that indicates she was in the house, or getting up from a nap or going down for one.

 

[steadychick]

Because the "calls" to voice mail don't include any cell phone pings, we know these are not actually calls made by KC to check voice mail, but just a virtual "call" from KC's cell phone to her voice mail--i.e., a call to her cell phone being rolled over to her voice mail. KC would not have to do anything at all for this second "call" to be recorded.

Now I get it! Thanks! What it does show is that KC clearly did not want to answer certain calls, ie from her parents or from Mark H, so she let them go to voicemail.

One more thought -- if these are not calls to retrieve messages, where are the calls from KC to voicemail? I don't see any in these records. Surely she must have checked her messages??!!??!!

 

[reeseeva]

Snipped.

That's also my favoured theory as to why the doll was left in the car. It also fits in with my thoughts (previous post) that Caylee may have been up quite early that day. If so, she may have been having a real good nap and KC may not have wanted to disturb her by juggling a largish doll plus Caylee plus probably a bag/purse as well.

IIRC, the doll was in the car seat, which now has me wondering that Caylee may have never made it to the car seat, that & coupled with no shoes, has me seeing her death happening in the house & then straight to the trunk I'm sick just typing this

 

[Devon]

I post back a few pages that I think that may be the reason KC snapped, the doll was not in the house and Caylee wanted it. I figured it was left somewhere from the night before or even in the car. Caylee may have been crying and KC wanted to yak on the phone or be on the computer. If Caylee was shoeless that indicates she was in the house, or getting up from a nap or going down for one.

I don't buy that KC would murder Caylee because she wound her up about fetching the doll from the car. To kill Caylee she'd have to put her phone down, whereas she could fetch the doll and still carry on chatting on the phone! When you're feeling harassed, you usually choose the simplest, quickest way of ending the harassment. Duct taping, chloroforming, drugging, drowning or suffocating (all propounded methods of killing Caylee) all take time and effort. I think KC would have just fetched the doll!

However, I agree with you about the significance of the missing shoes. Caylee was either in the house, the garden or the car when she died IMO.

 

[Devon]

IIRC, the doll was in the car seat, which now has me wondering that Caylee may have never made it to the car seat, that & coupled with no shoes, has me seeing her death happening in the house & then straight to the trunk I'm sick just typing this

I think Caylee must have been in the car at some point between her return from Mt. Dora with CA and the time of her death, otherwise I can't see why her favourite doll would be in there. IMO she did die either in the house or the garden and was put in the trunk very soon after, wrapped in the blanket - then KC took off at full speed and the rest is history.

 

[BondJamesBond]

...just to chum the waters a bit more...

Here are all the instances when the Hopespring home phone was used to call Casey's cell phone between 7AM & 9AM 6/1 through 7/17:

Date DOW Time Type From To Call Duration (min)
6/1/08 SUN 7:44:01 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.42
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.02
7/1/08 TUE 7:33:45 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.08
7/1/08 TUE 7:50:22 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.78
7/2/08 WED 7:14:23 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 3.02
7/3/08 THU 8:16:12 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.97
7/5/08 SAT 8:43:24 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 1.03


Without much time to noodle on this before posting it for everyone to consider...you hafta consider....

Casey was outta the house after 6/16...so a significant change when comparing before vs. after pattern.

Cindy & Casey had the fight 6/15.

Speculation is that Cindy developed a habit of calling Casey before Cindy left for work, but, it wasn't until well after 6/16.

Only one instance of this happening pre-6/16.

Methinks Casey needed to find her phone amongst the sheets, or, under the bed, etc.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

The significance of Caylee being found with out shoes on and in the same clothe she was wearing on the video from the visit to the nursing home make me believe Caylee was in the house when she died. Cindy claims they were in the pool, and when Casey got there she-Cindy took Caylee in because it was getting cold. So why wasn't Caylee found in a bathing suit? Again...I see Cindy as the master mind here. What ever happen to Caylee June 15th "IMO" was known by Cindy and she is the one that helped Casey cover up this mess just like she has helped Casey cover up everything else in the past. Maybe she helped cover up after the fact, but still I feel she helped her cover it up. (I JUST CAN'T SEE CINDY LETTING CASEY KEEP CAYLEE AWAY FROM HER MORE THAN A COUPLE OF DAYS.)I say it happen when they had the big fight...something happen to Caylee during that time and if not it happen right after. Does anyone know if Cindy left the house that night at all? Maybe Cindy had to get out of the house because she was so furious with Casey. Maybe Cindy went to visit her mother and Casey snapped and gave Caylee drugs/chloroform/ dumped her in the pool after with clothe on to make it look like an accident but then got a call from her lover boy and decided to just put Caylee in the trunk and dispose of her later.

 

[cocoamom]

No idea where to post this question so doing it here - in the Feb. doc dumps in the listing of what was seized from the A's home, it says they took TWO pair of hedge clippers. Anyone have any idea why?

I also noticed in the same document that in the bones found section they listed two that I didn't recognize. I wiki'd them and one is the top curved part of one side of the pelvis, but no pelvic bone is listed. The other is just a piece of the top curved part of a large bone. Not the whole top of the bone, Just a piece of the top part. The rest of that bone is not listed either.

How do bones become pieces - animals or not? Why did they take the hedge clippers?

Dr. G the Medical Examiner stated (to the best of my recollection) that the "cause" of death is unknown but certificate will say as a result of murder - how would she know that it is murder BEFORE the tox screen came back? I know she said she takes everything into consideration that is in the investigation so maybe that is all she used but....

Why did they take 2 pair of hedge clippers?

 

[Searchfortruth]

OK, I went back and read TL's Sept 8th interview, thoroughly. Now, LE asks Tony if Casey ever said anything about animals that had died in her car (or something like that) and Tony says, "I remember when I brought it up on the 16th, she was combating with me that she told me that, 16th of July when I told you that she contacted me". Then it's as if they move on to another subject, don't talk about this conversation on the 16th during the rest of the interview. There is one other TL interview with LE before this one, but that's all right ? Well, there's the one in the car w/ LE, that would make three interviews. Am I missing an interview where they go into the phone calls more or has that not yet come out ?

 

[Devon]

The significance of Caylee being found with out shoes on and in the same clothe she was wearing on the video from the visit to the nursing home make me believe Caylee was in the house when she died. Cindy claims they were in the pool, and when Casey got there she-Cindy took Caylee in because it was getting cold. So why wasn't Caylee found in a bathing suit? Again...I see Cindy as the master mind here. What ever happen to Caylee June 15th "IMO" was known by Cindy and she is the one that helped Casey cover up this mess just like she has helped Casey cover up everything else in the past. Maybe she helped cover up after the fact, but still I feel she helped her cover it up. (I JUST CAN'T SEE CINDY LETTING CASEY KEEP CAYLEE AWAY FROM HER MORE THAN A COUPLE OF DAYS.)I say it happen when they had the big fight...something happen to Caylee during that time and if not it happen right after. Does anyone know if Cindy left the house that night at all? Maybe Cindy had to get out of the house because she was so furious with Casey. Maybe Cindy went to visit her mother and Casey snapped and gave Caylee drugs/chloroform/ dumped her in the pool after with clothe on to make it look like an accident but then got a call from her lover boy and decided to just put Caylee in the trunk and dispose of her later.

The clothes found with Caylee's remains were not those she was wearing in the Father's Day video, at least the top certainly was not (turquoise or aqua as opposed to pink with lettering) and the shorts in the video don't look pink/white striped to me - they look plain white, but I could be wrong.

 

[Devon]

No idea where to post this question so doing it here - in the Feb. doc dumps in the listing of what was seized from the A's home, it says they took TWO pair of hedge clippers. Anyone have any idea why?

I also noticed in the same document that in the bones found section they listed two that I didn't recognize. I wiki'd them and one is the top curved part of one side of the pelvis, but no pelvic bone is listed. The other is just a piece of the top curved part of a large bone. Not the whole top of the bone, Just a piece of the top part. The rest of that bone is not listed either.

How do bones become pieces - animals or not? Why did they take the hedge clippers?

Dr. G the Medical Examiner stated (to the best of my recollection) that the "cause" of death is unknown but certificate will say as a result of murder - how would she know that it is murder BEFORE the tox screen came back? I know she said she takes everything into consideration that is in the investigation so maybe that is all she used but....

Why did they take 2 pair of hedge clippers?

I haven't got any answers about the hedge clippers or the bones, but the M.E. did not say the manner of death was murder - she said that the manner of death was 'homicide by undetermined means'. Homicide means the killing of one human being by the act or omission of another, and amongst other things includes both murder and manslaughter.

 

[kew17]

...just to chum the waters a bit more...

Here are all the instances when the Hopespring home phone was used to call Casey's cell phone between 7AM & 9AM 6/1 through 7/17:

Date DOW Time Type From To Call Duration (min)
6/1/08 SUN 7:44:01 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.42
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.02
7/1/08 TUE 7:33:45 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.08
7/1/08 TUE 7:50:22 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.78
7/2/08 WED 7:14:23 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 3.02
7/3/08 THU 8:16:12 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 0.97
7/5/08 SAT 8:43:24 AM INCOMING CALL George & Cindy "Casa de Anthony" Anthony Casey Anthony 1.03


Without much time to noodle on this before posting it for everyone to consider...you hafta consider....

Casey was outta the house after 6/16...so a significant change when comparing before vs. after pattern.

Cindy & Casey had the fight 6/15.

Speculation is that Cindy developed a habit of calling Casey before Cindy left for work, but, it wasn't until well after 6/16.

Only one instance of this happening pre-6/16.

Methinks Casey needed to find her phone amongst the sheets, or, under the bed, etc.

Good work, once again, Bond!
I would add/recommend that the one time prior to her staying with AL regularly, was made to her was on 6/1 on a Sunday. My conclusion would be a call from CA to find out where KC was as she had not returned home from her night of partying and left Caylee with the grandparents. CA wanted to know where her dam daughter was!