Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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Oh, I'm confused. I thought you meant Casey was able to claim innocence/diminish remorse because in her mind she was just letting her drown, not doing the deed. Don't mind me. It's early. :)

I'm linking to just your post for simplicity sake.

IF Caylee "acciedently" drowned in the family pool, then KC SEALED HER OWN FATE by NOT TELLING THE TRUTH!!!

A HUGE case with HUGE amounts of eveidence are going to be presented in front of a jury to show 1st Degree Murder eveidence....KC is simply too ashamed to admit that her neglect led to Caylee's death??? BS! Besides, if you believe like I do, Caylee was dead before the sun rose the morning of June 16, 2008.
 
I had a theory before I read this thread, but while I was reading it, y'all brought up evidence that I didn't know about before and I changed my mind :eek:

Initially I thought that Caylee died by "accidental" death by trunk over the night of the 16th, when she was palling around with her new boyfriend Tony, who didn't want Caylee around. Casey wouldn't have taken the plea agreement, even though it was an "accident", because then she'd have to admit that she was a horrible mother who stashed her kid in the trunk when it was convenient. She might have gotten away with this all winter and maybe didn't realize quite how hot it was on the night of the 16th. I know here in California, when the temperature is 100 F during the day, and it drops to 78 F at night, we all say, "Thank goodness it's cooling off," even though 78 F really isn't "cool" at all.

However, then I learned that Casey didn't pack any extra clothes for Caylee before she left on the 16th. It seems to me that the most pleasure that Casey got from Caylee was using her as a big ol' Barbie doll, so not bringing the clothes was extremely out of character. Casey had either already killed Caylee or was planning to kill Caylee when she left the house on the 16th, so it was pointless for her to bring clothes for a corpse/future corpse. Now I don't think it was any kind of "accident" at all :mad:

I really don't think Cindi would have called the police at all if she knew Caylee was dead at Casey's hands. I think Cindi had bought into the whole nanny story and needed police intervention to get Caylee back. I can believe that calling the police was intended to force Casey to tell them where Caylee was. I think George had his suspicions but kept them to himself in order to avoid more tongue-lashings from Cindi. That's why I think the cover-up was so poorly executed: if George and Cindi had played a significant part in it, Caylee's body would never have been found.

Now I think that Casey simply smothered Caylee during the day on the 16th. I'm not sure if she did it in the house or not. I don't really believe George's revised "hugs and kisses" testimony that he gave on Nancy Grace---it's too "Leave It To Beaver" and sounds too out of character for George. After Casey smothered the girl (might have been done with the tape) Casey took Caylee out to the trunk and forgot about her for a few days. Finally she gets around to dealing with the little problem that's starting to stink up the car, and goes to the Anthony house to do it. She backs in and stashes Caylee's body in the playhouse for a while and looks around for a shovel, finally borrowing one from the neighbors. Obviously burying her was too difficult, I mean, that dirt is really hard and Casey might chip a nail or something! Casey switches to Plan B. She moves the body poolside, gets the ladder, and tosses the girl in. While poor Caylee is floating, Casey has second thoughts about Plan B. I'm almost positive that the whole ladder issue was something that Cindi lectured and nagged about continually, so maybe Casey envisioned this nagging, amplified and never-ending, for the rest of her life, and changed her mind. Maybe she thought back on all the episodes of CSI she watched and realized that the autopsy would show that Caylee didn't have any water in her lungs and died before she went in the water. She rejects Plan B. By this time she's a little panicky, since her plans aren't working out, so she forgets about the ladder and the gate when she drags Caylee back out of the pool. Caylee goes back in the trunk for a few days while Casey tries to think up a fool-proof Plan C. This Plan C never materializes, and by the 19th, Caylee is really starting to smell bad, so Casey ditches her in the woods near her house, which really isn't the most well-thought-out plan. She purposefully abandons the car, hoping she can claim later that someone stole it, in hopes of explaining the stench, but before that can happen, the tow-yard gets it.

I think George knew that Caylee died in the car the minute he smelled it, but he held his tongue. I figure he thought that what was done, was done, and there wasn't much he could do to protect Casey other than clean up the car. Cindi was just in denial about the whole thing until some time after she'd already called the police.

Anyway, that's my new, revised theory. If any of you can pick a hole in it here or there or give me more information that I don't know about, I'd appreciate it. Wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if you did. Y'all seem a lot more knowledgeable about all of the evidence than I am.

I really like your theory. It's much in line with my own. What did you think KC's plan was when she threw Caylee into the pool... to stage a drowning? I'm not sure about that. I really don't know where the pool fits into the scenario. KC likes to search for deathly ideas online, but we never heard that she searched for "drowning".

I'm more in line with a chloroform theory as cause of unconsciousness, and possibly cause of death, because 1. KC searched for it online, 2. High levels of it were detected in the trunk, although I'm still not sure how high those levels were, 3. We've seen the image from RM's computer where it shows how to knock someone out with chloroform.

Put all of those together, and it seems to me that chloroform was part of her plan.
 
I really like your theory. It's much in line with my own. What did you think KC's plan was when she threw Caylee into the pool... to stage a drowning? I'm not sure about that. I really don't know where the pool fits into the scenario. KC likes to search for deathly ideas online, but we never heard that she searched for "drowning".

I'm more in line with a chloroform theory as cause of unconsciousness, and possibly cause of death, because 1. KC searched for it online, 2. High levels of it were detected in the trunk, although I'm still not sure how high those levels were, 3. We've seen the image from RM's computer where it shows how to knock someone out with chloroform.

Put all of those together, and it seems to me that chloroform was part of her plan.

That's my thinking, is that she was planning to stage a drowning and nixed the idea. I base this on the cadaver dog hits on the pool area and the playhouse. If Caylee actually drowned in the pool, she would probably not be dead long enough for the cadaver dogs to pick up on anything. This suggests to me that she was brought back after she'd been dead for a while, and the only reason I can think of for that is an attempt to stage a drowning.

I don't know what to think about the chloroform evidence. To me it seems like too much effort for Casey. She might get a bleach spot on her designer jeans! and think of what it could do to your manicure!! I think in the end, the murder was a spur-of-the-moment thing, even though she apparently did spend some time researching things. I suppose it's possible that the chloroform was created by the Anthony's attempts to clean the car (first try bleach, that doesn't work, go over it with something else, like ammonia). That doesn't explain why she was googling about chloroform though.
 
One of the shows (NG I think?) was running some interviews with JG friday night, and there was one, I am not sure if it was new or old, where he just said one thing that made my blood ran cold, and finally fully explained why LE went with the DP and premeditated murder.

The interviewer asked JG why he and KC broke up. Jesse said she broke up with him because she felt he loved Caylee more then her. She walked away from a long term relationship out of jealousy of her infant daughter.

Now imagine how she would have reacted when her parents wanted to throw her out and keep Caylee for themselves?

I think Caylee died in the Anthony house. There were just to many household related items found with her remains. The event occured in that house. The presense of so much bedding and items from the bedroom lead me to believe that she died in her room. Probably smothered with a pillow.
 
That's my thinking, is that she was planning to stage a drowning and nixed the idea. I base this on the cadaver dog hits on the pool area and the playhouse. If Caylee actually drowned in the pool, she would probably not be dead long enough for the cadaver dogs to pick up on anything. This suggests to me that she was brought back after she'd been dead for a while, and the only reason I can think of for that is an attempt to stage a drowning.

I don't know what to think about the chloroform evidence. To me it seems like too much effort for Casey. She might get a bleach spot on her designer jeans! and think of what it could do to your manicure!! I think in the end, the murder was a spur-of-the-moment thing, even though she apparently did spend some time researching things. I suppose it's possible that the chloroform was created by the Anthony's attempts to clean the car (first try bleach, that doesn't work, go over it with something else, like ammonia). That doesn't explain why she was googling about chloroform though.


A theory that's been discussed here before is that KC brought Caylee's body to the back yard during one of her back-into-the-garage incidents, with the thought of burying her back there, hence borrowing the shovel, and that's why the dog hit there. That's what I believe happened. That's the most logical explanation for borrowing a shovel... to bury something.

About KC not wanting to get her nails/jeans messed up... I know you're joking, but I've never seen KC really worry about keeping herself perfect, in all honesty. She normally dressed like a bum, chewed gum with her mouth open. I don't think she's worried about getting a little dirty.

I do believe murder was pre-meditated for quite a while.
But Caylee may not have been the target all along.. at first it may have been one of her parents. She was thinking about knocking someone off way back in February when she did all those searches.
 
A theory that's been discussed here before is that KC brought Caylee's body to the back yard during one of her back-into-the-garage incidents, with the thought of burying her back there, hence borrowing the shovel, and that's why the dog hit there. That's what I believe happened. That's the most logical explanation for borrowing a shovel... to bury something.

About KC not wanting to get her nails/jeans messed up... I know you're joking, but I've never seen KC really worry about keeping herself perfect, in all honesty. She normally dressed like a bum, chewed gum with her mouth open. I don't think she's worried about getting a little dirty.

I do believe murder was pre-meditated for quite a while.
But Caylee may not have been the target all along.. at first it may have been one of her parents. She was thinking about knocking someone off way back in February when she did all those searches.
i think the reason the dogs hit in the backyard is because of the shop-vac/steam cleaner that was used to clean out the car contained decomp fluids
 
One of the shows (NG I think?) was running some interviews with JG friday night, and there was one, I am not sure if it was new or old, where he just said one thing that made my blood ran cold, and finally fully explained why LE went with the DP and premeditated murder.

The interviewer asked JG why he and KC broke up. Jesse said she broke up with him because she felt he loved Caylee more then her. She walked away from a long term relationship out of jealousy of her infant daughter.

Now imagine how she would have reacted when her parents wanted to throw her out and keep Caylee for themselves?

I think Caylee died in the Anthony house. There were just to many household related items found with her remains. The event occured in that house. The presense of so much bedding and items from the bedroom lead me to believe that she died in her room. Probably smothered with a pillow.

I agree it was jealousy and anger born of jealousy which caused this murder.
KC wanted to stay with TonE on the evening of Father's Day when CA called her home. CA was supposed to be happy babysitting and when she wouldn't, KC killed the baby and that's why KC blamed the baby's death on the babysitter. She really did hate CA more than she loved the baby. KC really want her own way that night and CA wouldn't follow the script.
 
I think this could be a possiblity:
TonE said Casey could spend the night but Caylee couldn't on the 16th, Cindy wouldn't agree to babysit, Casey and her got in a big fight and Casey stormed out of the house, Casey got her babysitter out..Xanax or Chloroform..got Caylee to sleep, put her in the trunk with her Winnie the Poo Blankie, went to Blockbuster and stayed the night with TonE. TonE decided to stay home from school on the 17th so they could sleep in and he could spend more time with Casey, Casey couldn't very well go get the baby out of the trunk plus she figured what the heck Caylee might get hungry but she will be ok, but it was hot in the trunk and poor Caylee didn't make it through the heat of the day. The games, lies, false accusations begin, it was everybodies fault but Casey. I have no doubt she is sitting in jail right now thinking she will be able to take the stand and convince 12 jurors it definately wasn't her that harmed Caylee.
 
I think this could be a possiblity:
TonE said Casey could spend the night but Caylee couldn't on the 16th, Cindy wouldn't agree to babysit, Casey and her got in a big fight and Casey stormed out of the house, Casey got her babysitter out..Xanax or Chloroform..got Caylee to sleep, put her in the trunk with her Winnie the Poo Blankie, went to Blockbuster and stayed the night with TonE. TonE decided to stay home from school on the 17th so they could sleep in and he could spend more time with Casey, Casey couldn't very well go get the baby out of the trunk plus she figured what the heck Caylee might get hungry but she will be ok, but it was hot in the trunk and poor Caylee didn't make it through the heat of the day. The games, lies, false accusations begin, it was everybodies fault but Casey. I have no doubt she is sitting in jail right now thinking she will be able to take the stand and convince 12 jurors it definately wasn't her that harmed Caylee.

Ya know Becky, I was all set on the place of death to be inside the A home, but when I read your "simply put" theory, I can't but help see what you mean. If it is true what GA says, that KC left mid day Monday and stated they wouldn't be returning that night and staying with the nanny, she couldn't secure a sitter and left poor Caylee to the trunk and chloroform as her "sitter". So of course the babysitter killed her. no?
 
That's my thinking, is that she was planning to stage a drowning and nixed the idea. I base this on the cadaver dog hits on the pool area and the playhouse. If Caylee actually drowned in the pool, she would probably not be dead long enough for the cadaver dogs to pick up on anything. This suggests to me that she was brought back after she'd been dead for a while, and the only reason I can think of for that is an attempt to stage a drowning.

I don't know what to think about the chloroform evidence. To me it seems like too much effort for Casey. She might get a bleach spot on her designer jeans! and think of what it could do to your manicure!! I think in the end, the murder was a spur-of-the-moment thing, even though she apparently did spend some time researching things. I suppose it's possible that the chloroform was created by the Anthony's attempts to clean the car (first try bleach, that doesn't work, go over it with something else, like ammonia). That doesn't explain why she was googling about chloroform though.

(Snip Respect):)

I do think Casey wanted her parents to think Caylee drown. I think at that point she was not worried about the law. She was worried about what to tell her parents about "where is Caylee." No one else but an Anthony would know what "the gate open and the ladder up" would mean. We all know that small children and pools do not mix but this combo is "family-centric" to the Anthonys. All Cindy had to do was call George(he said she did in a statement to LE)and say: George, did you leave the ladder up? George is instantly upset: (paraphrased) Cindy you know I would never do that.

And, then I get confused about which one of them noticed the gate first...George gets confused himself but says around the day of the gas cans he was in the yard and either noticed the gate or received a call from Cindy about the ladder/gate and then checked. George goes on to tell LE that "he doesn't even really swim...just to cool off...doesn't use ladder." Anyone in that family would have a red flag go up to see the gate open and the ladder up. In the end George agrees that on the night of July15th he and Cindy were "brainstorming" and George decides "there has to be more to this mess" and that is when Cindy says to George "do you remember the day we noticed the gate/ladder?" and that is why(per George's statement to LE)Cindy called LE late July15th early July16th to pass the info about the pool. LE did not get the message right away as they were at Universal with Casey taking a tour.

If Caylee did drown in the pool and Casey wanted to cover that up, and then later came up with "Zanny/Nanny"-then she would have covered her tracks? She would have put the ladder up and closed the gate. Only if she wanted her parents to know/think Caylee had drown...would she leave those clues.

...jmo...
 
I wouldn't put it past the A's to have made the whole pool ladder story up thinking they could help "invent" an accident theory/story for Casey just in case she would need it.
 
i think the reason the dogs hit in the backyard is because of the shop-vac/steam cleaner that was used to clean out the car contained decomp fluids

But if the car was cleaned so thoroughly, why was the dirt and debris in there?
I guess it could have been thrown in there after the steam cleaning to make it look like it hadnt just been cleaned of all traces of caylee.
Just answered my own question, lol.
 
I wouldn't put it past the A's to have made the whole pool ladder story up thinking they could help "invent" an accident theory/story for Casey just in case she would need it.

Theres a discrepency with the ladder thing. MF states that the A's told him it was the pool supply box that was pushed up against the pool edge, not the ladder.
Could the ladder have fallen in if caylee was climbing on it unattended?
Then if KC finds a drowning caylee, and the ladder is in the pool, she would need to climb on the pool supply box to get in and 'save' her.... but its too late.
She knows its her fault because she wasnt watching caylee, so goes into cover-up mode so she doesnt look like the bad mum CA was telling her she was.
 
I wouldn't put it past the A's to have made the whole pool ladder story up thinking they could help "invent" an accident theory/story for Casey just in case she would need it.


(Snip Respect Secretsolver):)

I would not put it past the Anthony's either. The only thing that bothers me about that is they came up with that on July15th and called LE and left a message that night(early morning July16th)giving the information about the gate/ladder.

Supposedly...they still believe Caylee is alive. George says they were "brainstorming" and remembered "the pool." Why were they not just sitting at home waiting for Casey to come back from Universal with LE? LE was heading out with Casey to find that Nanny! She was going to where she worked, to get that other phone so they could go get Caylee back from this Zanny the Nanny.

GA: "There has to be more to this mess."

That is what George claims was the thinking of he and Cindy that night. I think they are telling us they did not buy the nanny story either. Even tho' Cindy repeated the Zanny/Nanny story to her own mother as early as 2007 complete with Jeff H. and his son because SP thought Caylee was staying with "Danny" till she asked and was corrected.

And I still think this tells what George knows about how Caylee died:

GA: I don't want to believe that I have, have raised someone and brought someone in this world that could do something to another person. I don't want to believe that.



I do not think he disposed of the body. I think that George knows his daughter-he told RG and JG that Casey had "issues." He repeated in two statements how there was more than resentment on Casey's part with Cindy trying to be "mommy" to Caylee. That coupled with the fight he witnessed on June15th (along with the escalation that occurred the months before)even if there was no actual fight on the 15th things were tense enough. Then he sees Casey at their house when she is supposed to be in Jacksonville.

The day that George "saw" Casey(gas can day?)I think he knew that Caylee was no longer alive. I swear I saw a statement GA made about that day and trying to look in the trunk but Casey would not let him...then, I swear he makes a statement like: that is life...or these things happen...? If anybody knows what I am talking about please help.

I might be making that up and in that case...I have been reading about this case too much! :crazy:

Thanks:blowkiss:
 
Theres a discrepency with the ladder thing. MF states that the A's told him it was the pool supply box that was pushed up against the pool edge, not the ladder.
Could the ladder have fallen in if caylee was climbing on it unattended?
Then if KC finds a drowning caylee, and the ladder is in the pool, she would need to climb on the pool supply box to get in and 'save' her.... but its too late.
She knows its her fault because she wasnt watching caylee, so goes into cover-up mode so she doesnt look like the bad mum CA was telling her she was.

(Snip Respect butwhatif?):)

"so goes into cover-up mode so she doesn't look like the bad mum CA was telling her she was."

I am glad you brought up that Cindy was telling Casey she was a bad mom. I agree. But, if she was trying to cover her tracks RE: the pool wouldn't she close the gate and put the ladder back where it "belongs"?

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS
 
Ya know Becky, I was all set on the place of death to be inside the A home, but when I read your "simply put" theory, I can't but help see what you mean. If it is true what GA says, that KC left mid day Monday and stated they wouldn't be returning that night and staying with the nanny, she couldn't secure a sitter and left poor Caylee to the trunk and chloroform as her "sitter". So of course the babysitter killed her. no?

Exactly. There was no babysitter. If there was why would she ask George or Cindy after saying they would be there that night. She knew in advance that Caylee couldn't stay at Tony's but she planned to. What was the plan for Caylee?
 
Exactly. There was no babysitter. If there was why would she ask George or Cindy after saying they would be there that night. She knew in advance that Caylee couldn't stay at Tony's but she planned to. What was the plan for Caylee?

According to AL's interview, there were no prior plans made between him and KC to meet up on that Mon evening June 16.

It's also very likely that GA was actually recalling the events of 9 June, since there was an initial belief that the 9th was the last date that CA/GA had seen Caylee, and in fact both KC and Caylee stayed overnight at RM's on that date.
 
I think that KC stomped out with Caylee and took her to the bonding vacation. There was a fight, maybe the 9th, maybe the 15th. And I think that one thing that CA said to KC was something like "I will never forgive you if something happens to that baby."

This is why, the very first time that KC appeared in court, CA hollered to her, "I forgive you!"
 
Natsound and Songline--if this theory is correct-what about the cameras at the tow yard?

I am confused, are you asking about me saying what if someone picked up a package in the ark out of the car?
if that is it....I am not so sure that the camera takes pictures as far away as that car was.....It was not in the main part of the lot, it was off to the side near a dumpster.
Maybe there are no shots of that location....
I think they protect the cars in their possession, this car was not yet in their possession...
I will say it again the brain of LE daddy? :eek: :confused:
I was just throwing out possibilities, not sure of anything with these guys.
Only sure of Two things; KEEPING my eye on GA. & Honoring CAYLEE. the rest of them are a circus.
 
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