Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[christee]

snipped for room and bolded by me.....


I do think Caylee was wearing the those clothes. They were found in the bag with the bones. There was nothing LEFT to hold them on. Once the muscle and tissue decomposed, there was nothing left to hold the bones together. Once the bones were no longer connected there would be nothing to hold the clothes on. The bag was under water from the day Fay hit until sometime in late Oct? The bag floated in the the water and things broke lose and became scattered. So the clothing became scattered and decomposed as well.

I also thought that Faye would have moved the remains around but then I found this report on the root growth analysis from where Caylee was found. It's very interesting:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...ypages3802to3845/1/lg/3802-3845-1_Page_10.htm

Docs #3811 & #3812

The last paragraph of 3811 talks abt the root growth and bones. Unless I totally misunderstood what I read, I think the report says that Caylees' remains were in one place a minimum of 4 months, possibly 6 mos (# 3812). So from when Caylee was found counting back 4months would mean she was in the woods no later than mid September(?).
Even though this is a theories thread this doc could lead to some more possibilities.
My apologies if already discussed!

 

[ibyoungr]

I also thought that Faye would have moved the remains around but then I found this report on the root growth analysis from where Caylee was found. It's very interesting:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...ypages3802to3845/1/lg/3802-3845-1_Page_10.htm

Docs #3811 & #3812

The last paragraph of 3811 talks abt the root growth and bones. Unless I totally misunderstood what I read, I think the report says that Caylees' remains were in one place a minimum of 4 months, possibly 6 mos (# 3812). So from when Caylee was found counting back 4months would mean she was in the woods no later than mid September(?).
Even though this is a theories thread this doc could lead to some more possibilities.
My apologies if already discussed!

I think it roots would not start to grow into the bones until after the water receded?

 

[christee]

I think it roots would not start to grow into the bones until after the water receded?

That's true, so depending on when the water receded from the woods...Hhmm, didn't Faye hit abt Aug 18th? Wouldn't standing water have receded after a few days? If so, then if she was there before Faye any root growth would still be in place even after being under water for a few days. Or the small root growth occurred after Faye and the large root growth was from before Faye.
So if Caylee was moved to the woods from somewhere else (rumor), then it had to be before Faye and KC knew she was near the A's home that whole time(?)

Whew! "What'd Horace say?" Lol

 

[Ripley007]

If Caylee had been killed in the home & then put in the car backed into the garage, why would KC take her out to the backyard first? Sorry, that just makes no sense to me seeing how lazy KC is. She would be creating more work for herself. She's not a large person so toting around 40 lbs. is a lot of work. There's really not much for her to do once Caylee was dead other than put her in the bag, & put her in the trunk.

If LE says the clothes weren't on the body, I believe them. I'm guessing they were wadded up in the bag, and that's how they knew that.

I don't know what the real answer is, but someone, a few days ago, posed the question/statement...what IF the dirty water from the miniature carpet cleaning machine had been dumped into the backyard (after cleaning the trunk). Would the cadavar dog have "hit" on this?

 

[snow_walker]

I wonder if the clothes or the bedding or a rug or something such as that, contaminated with decomp, might have been placed there at sometime.. maybe those pants that CA washed.. perhaps she just took them out of the car and threw them down out in the yard somewhere for an hour or two to air out until she had time to take them in and wash them.

 

[justthinkin]

Hmmm, I don't know. If I was Cindy in a hurry to clean out that car and remove evidence as quickly and sufficiently as possible (remember hunting down Casey is on her mind), stuff would go straight from the car into the washing machine which she'd have to pass anyway to take the stuff to the backyard. Would she want to waft that awful smell all through her house? I doubt it. Would she carry stuff out of the garage into the front yard and around to the backyard, unlikely there too, imo. She might run into a neighbor.

 

[justthinkin]

I don't know what the real answer is, but someone, a few days ago, posed the question/statement...what IF the dirty water from the miniature carpet cleaning machine had been dumped into the backyard (after cleaning the trunk). Would the cadavar dog have "hit" on this?

I guess it's possible a cadavar dog could have hit on it. Do we have a picture of what her mini carpet cleaning machine looked like or know the brand? How much liquid could we be talking about?

Still, I think that probably went down a sink as fresh water & a little bleach could quickly wash away any smell arising from that. She would also want to wash the little container as well after dumping it. I'm just thinking expediency and thoroughness are key to her actions.

 

[natsound]

I guess it's possible a cadavar dog could have hit on it. Do we have a picture of what her mini carpet cleaning machine looked like or know the brand? How much liquid could we be talking about?

Still, I think that probably went down a sink as fresh water & a little bleach could quickly wash away any smell arising from that. She would also want to wash the little container as well after dumping it. I'm just thinking expediency and thoroughness are key to her actions.

There are lots of pictures of the various vacuum cleaners, spot cleaners, etc. being carried out of the house overnight Dec. 11/12, when they searched the house right after finding Caylee's body.

 

[BondJamesBond]

OK...found the current "Theories" thread over on page 5. Last post was almost 2 weeks ago...and I'm wondering, "How is this possible?". :waitasec:

Sooooo......

Perhaps this'll provide something to noodle on to bring the truth closer to light through your sleuthing.

Consider the analysis provided here that supports speculation that Caylee was alive as late as 2:45PM 6/16.

Granted using the provided analysis there are plenty of theory directions still to go from 2:45PM until Caylee met her demise. Still - without intending to suggest the folks holding onto a pre-2:45PM 6/16 death theory are wrong (since there's plenty of evidence we haven't seen that could reverse assumptions, etc....and since I've been wrong plenty of times in my analyses :bang I DO hope to get these minds to consider applying their energies & abilities toward the possibilities of post-2:45PM scenarios. IOW...you don't hafta let go of your theory to join in to sleuting out the possiblity of something counter to it, IYKWIM.

So...how about it?

Does this get anyone closer to a pool accident? Get anyone closer to a rage-induced incident @ JB Park? etc. etc?

 

[eddeva]

I don't know what the real answer is, but someone, a few days ago, posed the question/statement...what IF the dirty water from the miniature carpet cleaning machine had been dumped into the backyard (after cleaning the trunk). Would the cadavar dog have "hit" on this?

i'm one of several people who have posted this idea. a cadaver dog will hit on a body, anywhere a body has been, and anything that has come into contact w/ a body.

 

[Rumpole]

Ok! See, I have always agreed that the tape may have been placed on her to keep the fluids from leaking, but I can't wrap my brain around her handling her child that has been dead for 2 or 3 days now and is starting to decompose! That is just....so....gross! I can't see how she could do that! But, then, I can't see how she could kill her own child, so......

Getting a bit OT for computer forensics.

I'll move this to Theories about Caylee thread:

Having found tape on Caylees skull I think it could be argued by prosecution as cause of death?

I do not think it will be any use for the defence to claim " No, KC put it there after death"?

 

[Dear Prudence]

Quote from JWG brought from computer forensics thread:
Agreed Hercule...no chloroform involved in death.

Hercule and JWG,
I love reading your posts. You both are informative and educating. Could you share your views on the chloroform levels found in the trunk of the Pontiac? The report from the Oakridge Lab tests found levels of chloroform that were way above normal in the trunk of KC's Pontiac. How would you explain this?

 

[Rumpole]

Quote from JWG brought from computer forensics thread:
Agreed Hercule...no chloroform involved in death.

Hercule and JWG,
I love reading your posts. You both are informative and educating. Could you share your views on the chloroform levels found in the trunk of the Pontiac? The report from the Oakridge Lab tests found levels of chloroform that were way above normal in the trunk of KC's Pontiac. How would you explain this?

If I was the prosecution I wouldn't explain it. I would not even bring it up. I would note that:
Chloroform is a "normal" product of decomposition, especially in anaerobic conditions. In fact it is one of the indicators of early decomposition which is dominated by anaerobic reactions within the intact body. Here we have a body triple bagged in an enclosed trunk. Likely to be oxygen deprived (anaerobic)

If it were brought up and I were the DEFENCE I would argue:

The standard recipe for manufacture of chloroform is: mix household strength sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) with an organic solvent (acetone mentioned but essentially any organic solvent). Whether it actually happened or not, the defence could argue beyond reasonable doubt that in cleaning the trunk with bleach and a solvent based cleaner, chloroform COULD have been produced

 

[kk1012]

I have a problem with the duct tape being used for anything other than keeping Caylee quiet, in the event she woke up, after being placed in the trunk. I just can't reasonably accept that Casey would put duct tape on Caylee to stop fluids from coming out of the mouth. If Casey wanted to drown Caylee, all she would have to do is put the ladder against the pool and let Caylee get in...she couldn't swim without floats.

I agree...not to mention duct tape doesn't work too well when it's wet....I don't think the tape would stick had she taken a wet Caylee from the pool, spewing fluids from her mouth.....I think that would make it near impossible to tape her mouth in that situation.

 

[kk1012]

If I was the prosecution I wouldn't explain it. I would not even bring it up. I would note that:
Chloroform is a "normal" product of decomposition, especially in anaerobic conditions. In fact it is one of the indicators of early decomposition which is dominated by anaerobic reactions within the intact body. Here we have a body triple bagged in an enclosed trunk. Likely to be oxygen deprived (anaerobic)

If it were brought up and I were the DEFENCE I would argue:

The standard recipe for manufacture of chloroform is: mix household strength sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) with an organic solvent (acetone mentioned but essentially any organic solvent). Whether it actually happened or not, the defence could argue beyond reasonable doubt that in cleaning the trunk with bleach and a solvent based cleaner, chloroform COULD have been produced

I agree....the state shouldn't even bring it up....the chloroform...it could backfire if they do because they don't have chloroform evidence linked to the killing and it's just piling on in a case that really doesn't need it.....they have so many other things, bringing that up could confuse or add doubt to the states case....I've wondered before if the chloroform was used to try and clean the trunk....whether it was made from a mixture of other stuff, I don't know....but the only problem with that is, the previous internet searches on chloroform......that would at least show the idea had been thought of before, right?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I don't know what the real answer is, but someone, a few days ago, posed the question/statement...what IF the dirty water from the miniature carpet cleaning machine had been dumped into the backyard (after cleaning the trunk). Would the cadavar dog have "hit" on this?

I had mentioned this earlier...GA drove KC's pontiac from the tow yard home, with the windows open it's smelled so bad...so, I'm thinking since GA was in the car with the decomp smell, the scent was all over him...when he got back home, the first thing they both did was check the playhouse (due to them thinking one or both of their "girls" were dead)..I'm guessing the dogs hit on the scent GA carried with him from the car...

I also feel Caylee got herself into the pool while KC was preoccupied on the computer or her phone..I remember when CA/GA went to visit KC and CA tells KC, people are saying Caylee drowned in the pool, or words to that effect..KC says, "Surprise, surprise". I instantly felt that is what happened to Caylee or KC would have said, why are you listening to people/media, they don't know what happened...Surprise, Surprise...:behindbar

 

[KenoshaKid]

I've heard more than one person mention that the tape was over the mouth AND the nose. Is this mentioned in any of the docs - that it was over the nose also?

 

[Bittiness39]

I've mentioned this before...not in this thread. But at the time I believe Caylee was killed...in that zip code (I would have to go back in my notes...but the zip code in which KC's parents live) there was a horrible thunderstorm that afternoon. Check the weather underground. That is why I never bought the swimming pool accidental drowning thing. It was raining cats and dogs then. Lightning too. Granted it rains all the time in places like Orlando but this was an above average storm. I believe it rained for at least two hours. After the rain stopped there was a flurry of phone calls from KC to GA and CA.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/FL/Orlando.html
Can someone help me out with this? I used to have the direct link to the archives. Maybe they have changed the site since I last visited.
My theory was at the time, the Caylee wouldn't be quiet and in direct response to quiet her...KC inadvertantly killed her. I believe differently now. I now think that KC lost her temper...that she had been resentful of Caylee, had been angry with her parents, had been plotting whatever she was plotting...but those flurries of phone calls do coincide (at least from my understanding) of the end of the storm...I don't know. Part of me still wants to believe she snapped because the "little snothead wouldn't shut up" and the other part of me believes she planned it. But can someone help me out with the weather underground stuff? I used to keep notes on this but have since moved when I used to post on another venue.

 

[Marina2]

If I was the prosecution I wouldn't explain it. I would not even bring it up. I would note that:
Chloroform is a "normal" product of decomposition, especially in anaerobic conditions. In fact it is one of the indicators of early decomposition which is dominated by anaerobic reactions within the intact body. Here we have a body triple bagged in an enclosed trunk. Likely to be oxygen deprived (anaerobic)

If it were brought up and I were the DEFENCE I would argue:

The standard recipe for manufacture of chloroform is: mix household strength sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) with an organic solvent (acetone mentioned but essentially any organic solvent). Whether it actually happened or not, the defence could argue beyond reasonable doubt that in cleaning the trunk with bleach and a solvent based cleaner, chloroform COULD have been produced

I don't think chloroform played a part in Caylee's death.

The defense shouldn't argue the point by saying it could've been made by cleaning out the trunk with bleach and a solvent-based cleaner. Who cleans a trunk out with that? It seems to me that would just reinforce how bad the smell was in the trunk. Next, we'd have the prosecution asking CA if she cleaned out the trunk and, if so, what did she use.
CA, "I used bleach and a solvent-based cleaner. That pizza smelled horrible! Have you ever smelled pizza that's been sitting in the Florida heat for like 19 days!?" It was awful!"

Maybe it's best if the chloroform is left out altogether.

 

[Noddy]

I've mentioned this before...not in this thread. But at the time I believe Caylee was killed...in that zip code (I would have to go back in my notes...but the zip code in which KC's parents live) there was a horrible thunderstorm that afternoon. Check the weather underground. That is why I never bought the swimming pool accidental drowning thing. It was raining cats and dogs then. Lightning too. Granted it rains all the time in places like Orlando but this was an above average storm. I believe it rained for at least two hours. After the rain stopped there was a flurry of phone calls from KC to GA and CA.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/FL/Orlando.html
Can someone help me out with this? I used to have the direct link to the archives. Maybe they have changed the site since I last visited.
My theory was at the time, the Caylee wouldn't be quiet and in direct response to quiet her...KC inadvertantly killed her. I believe differently now. I now think that KC lost her temper...that she had been resentful of Caylee, had been angry with her parents, had been plotting whatever she was plotting...but those flurries of phone calls do coincide (at least from my understanding) of the end of the storm...I don't know. Part of me still wants to believe she snapped because the "little snothead wouldn't shut up" and the other part of me believes she planned it. But can someone help me out with the weather underground stuff? I used to keep notes on this but have since moved when I used to post on another venue.

I believe this is the link back to June 16, 08 in the archives. Hope this is what you're looking for. http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLORLAN45&day=16&year=2008&month=6
The archives are still there under History and Almanac half way down the page on the left on the link you provided. Scalliwags hid it amongst all the other data :crazy: