Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[Searchfortruth]

I too still concede the possibility that the tape was applied after death, but have grown to favour before death.
To be blunt, I think whether the tape actually WAS the cause of death or not, the case that it was can be argued. We do have the body of a 2 year old found with tape across mouth area. No drugs detected. No broken bones etc. I would argue the tape across mouth and nose is a strong possibility for COD

I agree...I just can't think of any explanation for this duct tape being put on after death. I wouldn't be too surprised if the duct tape is the reason for the DP being brought back into play.

 

[nanny2five]

Definately not! Trust me.
18th was shovel day.

KC backed into garage 17th 18th and 20th.

she could have used the shovel to take the remains into the back yard to do her bagging there. then maybe she took the pool ladder down so she could wash the shovel and her hands in the pool water and didnt put the ladder back up. i think she did the dumping on the 19th and went to the ant home on 20th to try and clean her car out. would the 18th even be possible for bagging considering the amount of decomp in the car? i wonder....

 

[2goldfish]

1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)

......snipped
My guess is that is when Caylee died. That time period.

snipped - the 3.35 to 4.10 silence is where I think caylee died. I always wondered about the storm too..if it contributed, was caylee afraid of thunder and kc too busy for that


a tiny little window of time to murder a tiny little girl

I am so sorry to hear you lost your bff to a murder.

 

[nanny2five]

I think she crushed a 2 mg xanax and combined it with the gator aid and administered it to her with one of those dropper syringes. Gator Aid has a funny salty taste that I think it would mask the bitterness of Xanax well. I don't think Annie knew that she was casey's xanax supplier until much later. I think Casey was in the habit of pocketing a pill here and there.

The average dose for an adult is .25- .50. If Casey fed her an entire 2 mg tab I have no doubt in my mind it would slow her breathing to the point that being strapped up with duct tape would borderline on overkill.

i have always thought this theory was possible. i have a feeling kc may have been in the habit of giving Caylee a little bit of xanax to make her go to sleep at night so she could go out. imo Caylee may have been hard to get to sleep as many children without any kind of regular schedule will be. then on the evening of 6/16 when she couldnt get in touch w/ ca to drop her at gentiva, she may have given her a little more than usual so she could leave her in the car. no way was she going to let the "little snot head" cheat her out of another night with tony. she may have slid her through the back seat into the trunk leaving the back seat open a little bit thinking it would be safe that way. what a imo. i doubt she opened the trunk hatch in broad daylight but iirc that year/model had the backseat access to the trunk? then according to tl interview, they stayed in most of the day on the 17th, but i am sure Caylee was with our Father by then and i figure kc knew it.

 

[kk1012]

It just doesn't seem to be that much time that afternoon for something as devastating as your child dying, accident or otherwise, to happen and then to just be on your way to your boyfriend's house without a care in the world.

Also, by the looks of the call to GA, then 2 calls to CA, then back to GA, it appears that KC's conversation with GA involved him saying something like "I don't know, better call your mother and ask her". KC tries twice, no answer so she calls GA back and reports to him that she couldn't contact CA. If so, it could be that KC needed to make sure that it was alright with CA that she have the car that night and not return home with it. It's always been my thought that CA made KC stay home on the night of the 15th under threat of reporting the car stolen (post-fight punishment?). KC made those calls to be sure she had the ok from GA or CA and wouldn't be tracked down.

I'm not so sure about that.....I don't think Casey feared her mom or dad enough to make sure it was ok to use the car....I think she would just use it and deal with the consequences later....I don't think we've seen anything that shows she respected her parents enough to ask to use the car....and even though that was technically the parents car (probably more to do with the insurance and Casey not paying it or whatever) it was Casey's car, right? I mean I highly doubt she had to ask to use it because in her mind, that's her car....but yeah, I think those flurry of phone calls to mom and dad, was originally going to be the "Caylee died from an accident" phone call....after no one picked up, she thought that telling the parents would have her world come to a screeching halt...you know, those pesky police, the funeral.....that can be a real bummer to a party girl who only cares about herself and her life....I think she felt she would explain this death in a day or so....and the next day or so came and went, and she still didn't want to hamper her plans with all this daughter dieing business...so she kept going with the lies, living her life, etc...remember it wasn't until Cindy tracked Casey down, that she started with the story telling....I really think she would have kept the "Caylee's with the nanny" bit until the cows came home....had Cindy not been so up in her face about this, this could have easily been 2-3 months that rolled by without Caylee being reported missing....JMO as always....peace out

 

[Marina2]

I'm not so sure about that.....I don't think Casey feared her mom or dad enough to make sure it was ok to use the car....I think she would just use it and deal with the consequences later....I don't think we've seen anything that shows she respected her parents enough to ask to use the car....and even though that was technically the parents car (probably more to do with the insurance and Casey not paying it or whatever) it was Casey's car, right? I mean I highly doubt she had to ask to use it because in her mind, that's her car....but yeah, I think those flurry of phone calls to mom and dad, was originally going to be the "Caylee died from an accident" phone call....after no one picked up, she thought that telling the parents would have her world come to a screeching halt...you know, those pesky police, the funeral.....that can be a real bummer to a party girl who only cares about herself and her life....I think she felt she would explain this death in a day or so....and the next day or so came and went, and she still didn't want to hamper her plans with all this daughter dieing business...so she kept going with the lies, living her life, etc...remember it wasn't until Cindy tracked Casey down, that she started with the story telling....I really think she would have kept the "Caylee's with the nanny" bit until the cows came home....had Cindy not been so up in her face about this, this could have easily been 2-3 months that rolled by without Caylee being reported missing....JMO as always....peace out

No, she didn't fear her parents. But on that day, she may have feared the police pulling her over in response to CA having reported the car stolen. There's a good chance there was a dead body in her trunk on that day. Kind of changes the fear factor a little.

 

[kk1012]

No, she didn't fear her parents. But on that day, she may have feared the police pulling her over in response to CA having reported the car stolen. There's a good chance there was a dead body in her trunk on that day. Kind of changes the fear factor a little.

Right right....if there was a dead Caylee in the trunk then yes Casey would be kissing up to make sure it was cool to take the car....especially after the fight between her and Cindy....I just assumed those flurry of calls was to explain that something happened to Caylee....I still believe that...however, I'm trying to remember if she got ahold of anyone before she ended up taking the car? I didn't think so....but I could be wrong...if she did, then you could be right...something I hadn't thought of....thanks for that....peace out

 

[KenoshaKid]

The skull had no "nose" as such. I would imagine though that a 2" wide piece of tape on a 2 year old mouth might well obstruct nose as well.

True enough, but I think its an important distinction regarding the intent to shut her up vs suffocate her. I wonder if they could even tell after the flesh was gone.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I am just looking at the time in which something happened (murder of Caylee) and I am looking at that day and what stands out is 30-40 minutes in which there were no calls. JMO.

Hey, LittleBitty. Sorry to hear about your loss. Good friends are hard to find.

Following along w/ the fleshing out you've been doing...

You might find the analysis [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3723917&postcount=340"]here[/ame] helpful to consider regarding the focus on that 32minutes (2:20-2:52PM 6/16). The analysis suggests that Casey was on the computer for most, if not all, of that period you are interested in.

Note: The % information I used in that linked post is only an approximation based on the Encase report interpretation - it may come across in the post as being presented as fact. Working on getting a better fix of the scale on the Encase report.

Also, FWIW. The "flurry" call activity was actually quite common for Casey. Analyzing her cell records shows that she pulled that maneuver several times...both before & after Caylee's murder.

 

[nephers]

Hey, LittleBitty. Sorry to hear about your loss. Good friends are hard to find.

Following along w/ the fleshing out you've been doing...

You might find the analysis here helpful to consider regarding the focus on that 32minutes (2:20-2:52PM 6/16). The analysis suggests that Casey was on the computer for most, if not all, of that period you are interested in.

Note: The % information I used in that linked post is only an approximation based on the Encase report interpretation - it may come across in the post as being presented as fact. Working on getting a better fix of the scale on the Encase report.

Also, FWIW. The "flurry" call activity was actually quite common for Casey. Analyzing her cell records shows that she pulled that maneuver several times...both before & after Caylee's murder.

I really don't see the "flurry" of phone calls as being a true "flurry" of calls. If I'm trying to get a hold of my mother I'll call her cell, then her house phone, then her cell, then her house again, then my sister-in-law to see if she's with her. I will do that even if it isn't something important. It's partly because of worry that she didn't fall in the tub or something but it's also because sometimes she doesn't hear the phone. I would call it a "flurry" if she had called the same numbers 10 times in a row. When I saw the report on the flurry of calls I wasn't impressed, I thought "hey, that looks like what I've done"....Oh no, does that make me like her?

 

[eddeva]

I really don't see the "flurry" of phone calls as being a true "flurry" of calls. If I'm trying to get a hold of my mother I'll call her cell, then her house phone, then her cell, then her house again, then my sister-in-law to see if she's with her. I will do that even if it isn't something important. It's partly because of worry that she didn't fall in the tub or something but it's also because sometimes she doesn't hear the phone. I would call it a "flurry" if she had called the same numbers 10 times in a row. When I saw the report on the flurry of calls I wasn't impressed, I thought "hey, that looks like what I've done"....Oh no, does that make me like her?

i could be wrong, and i'm not just saying that, i really could be wrong, but w/ casey the 'flurry' is totally out of character. you describe making these calls as a common occurrence but w/ casey this is, i think, the only time she behaved like this. it would be odd for me to do this too. unless it's imperative that i get hold of someone, or one of my children isn't answering their phone, i'll just leave it for an hour or so then try again.

 

[BondJamesBond]

i could be wrong, and i'm not just saying that, i really could be wrong, but w/ casey the 'flurry' is totally out of character. you describe making these calls as a common occurrence but w/ casey this is, i think, the only time she behaved like this. it would be odd for me to do this too. unless it's imperative that i get hold of someone, or one of my children isn't answering their phone, i'll just leave it for an hour or so then try again.

*bold by me*

FWIW, see above. Casey & the redial function were well-acquainted based on the records 6/1-7/17. Some immediately recognizable times when she was flurry-prone :

• Between G&C's and Ricardo's 6/9
• After the gas can drama @ G&C's 6/24

There are others...just doing these for short list.

 

[eddeva]

*bold by me*

FWIW, see above. Casey & the redial function were well-acquainted based on the records 6/1-7/17. Some immediately recognizable times when she was flurry-prone :

• Between G&C's and Ricardo's 6/9
• After the gas can drama @ G&C's 6/24

There are others...just doing these for short list.

i said 'i could be wrong' lol.
i wonder why there was manic calling after the gas can incident? it's not as if anyone could help or there was anyone she could confide her concerns to.

 

[AZlawyer]

i said 'i could be wrong' lol.
i wonder why there was manic calling after the gas can incident? it's not as if anyone could help or there was anyone she could confide her concerns to.

She wanted to talk to Cindy right away to give her "spin" on the situation before George could tell her what happened.

 

[Sassy Frog]

True enough, but I think its an important distinction regarding the intent to shut her up vs suffocate her. I wonder if they could even tell after the flesh was gone.

Not to be gross, but they could see if the tape was over the nose cavity or not. I have always believed she taped her mouth only, fastening the tape over her hair, so she could not pull it loose. She may have pretending to play a little game with Caylee, so she would allow her to place the tape on her. The heart sticker was part of the game. Now comes the really bad part...the neighbors reported sounds coming from the pool that day...I think she put Caylee in her swim suit, and put her in the pool, and walked away. (No tape over the nose allowed her to breathe in the water and drown.) KC probably either went into the computer, or sat texting until no further sounds came from the pool. Then she fished her out of the pool, lay her on the ground to catch her breath, maybe twice, and then dragged her into the bedroom.

Then the flurry of phone calls to try to offer an accidental drowning theory, or to discover where everyone was at the time, but got no answers. She also had to try to remove the duct tape before anyone saw the body, and the wet tape proved impossible to remove the way it was all entangled in Caylee's wet hair. She removed the wet swimsuit, maybe thinking she would dress her, but it was too much hassle after fighting the wet suit off the inert body. Found the Pooh blanket from the bed, (it was under the Pooh quilt, and Cindy wouldn't notice it missing right away) and wrapped the wet body in it. Looked around and spied the canvas clothes hamper, thrust the body into it, along with the clothes she had removed from the body previously. Also a few of the toys that may have gotten wet from the body laying on them on the floor.
Somehow she managed to drag the body to her car and heft it into the trunk...it couldn't have been easy for her, she is a small person, and Caylee was a good size for her age. She was worn out, and decided not to worry anymore that day about the body in the trunk. After all "tomorrow is another day".

The "Tomorrow is another day" continued until the smell began, and the body fluids began to seep out of the canvas bag....what to do... what to do? She tried putting the hamper bag in a garbage bag, (which are advertised as smell proof.) however the garbage bag people never meant them to house a body. This was her first trip backing the car into the garage. When the bag didn't solve the smell problem she decided to try another bag, hence the second trip with the car backed into the garage. The last straw was when GA made her admit she had the gas cans, and she truly panicked when she thought GA might have glimpsed or smelled the body bag. She drove down to Suburban drive and disposed of the body as fast as she could.

 

[AZlawyer]

Not to be gross, but they could see if the tape was over the nose cavity or not. I have always believed she taped her mouth only, fastening the tape over her hair, so she could not pull it loose. She may have pretending to play a little game with Caylee, so she would allow her to place the tape on her. The heart sticker was part of the game. Now comes the really bad part...the neighbors reported sounds coming from the pool that day...I think she put Caylee in her swim suit, and put her in the pool, and walked away. (No tape over the nose allowed her to breathe in the water and drown.) KC probably either went into the computer, or sat texting until no further sounds came from the pool. Then she fished her out of the pool, lay her on the ground to catch her breath, maybe twice, and then dragged her into the bedroom.

<snipped>

I've heard several people make this statement (bold above). Do you know where it comes from?

 

[kageykaren]

I've heard several people make this statement (bold above). Do you know where it comes from?

It would be so helpful if someone could post a link pertaing to "sounds that day?" I'm unable to find that statement reported by neighbors and I think this is a huge statement if true, in further developing a timeline. This statement made by W/S member needs verifying. Mahalo :wave:

 

[Sassy Frog]

I read it in the evidence some where. Will have to do considerable research to provide a link.

 

[kageykaren]

I read it in the evidence some where. Will have to do considerable research to provide a link.

I'm looking for it as well. Do you think you saw it in the neighbors LE interview?

 

[jeepgirlva]

Not to be gross, but they could see if the tape was over the nose cavity or not. I have always believed she taped her mouth only, fastening the tape over her hair, so she could not pull it loose. She may have pretending to play a little game with Caylee, so she would allow her to place the tape on her. The heart sticker was part of the game. Now comes the really bad part...the neighbors reported sounds coming from the pool that day...I think she put Caylee in her swim suit, and put her in the pool, and walked away. (No tape over the nose allowed her to breathe in the water and drown.) KC probably either went into the computer, or sat texting until no further sounds came from the pool. Then she fished her out of the pool, lay her on the ground to catch her breath, maybe twice, and then dragged her into the bedroom.

Then the flurry of phone calls to try to offer an accidental drowning theory, or to discover where everyone was at the time, but got no answers. She also had to try to remove the duct tape before anyone saw the body, and the wet tape proved impossible to remove the way it was all entangled in Caylee's wet hair. She removed the wet swimsuit, maybe thinking she would dress her, but it was too much hassle after fighting the wet suit off the inert body. Found the Pooh blanket from the bed, (it was under the Pooh quilt, and Cindy wouldn't notice it missing right away) and wrapped the wet body in it. Looked around and spied the canvas clothes hamper, thrust the body into it, along with the clothes she had removed from the body previously. Also a few of the toys that may have gotten wet from the body laying on them on the floor.
Somehow she managed to drag the body to her car and heft it into the trunk...it couldn't have been easy for her, she is a small person, and Caylee was a good size for her age. She was worn out, and decided not to worry anymore that day about the body in the trunk. After all "tomorrow is another day".

The "Tomorrow is another day" continued until the smell began, and the body fluids began to seep out of the canvas bag....what to do... what to do? She tried putting the hamper bag in a garbage bag, (which are advertised as smell proof.) however the garbage bag people never meant them to house a body. This was her first trip backing the car into the garage. When the bag didn't solve the smell problem she decided to try another bag, hence the second trip with the car backed into the garage. The last straw was when GA made her admit she had the gas cans, and she truly panicked when she thought GA might have glimpsed or smelled the body bag. She drove down to Suburban drive and disposed of the body as fast as she could.

or held her head under water ...I believe the duct tape was staged to look like she was kidnapped...