Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[BondJamesBond]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67854"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #1[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71683"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #2[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75442"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78053"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79647"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85576"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)[/ame]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103475"]Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7 [/ame]



Continue here please...

 

[MissJames]

I still believe that whatever happened to Caylee was triggered by CA confronting ICA about stealing from Shirley Plesea,CA's mom.
We all know how arguments on one matter can turn into a laundry list of everything the person has ever done wrong .
I don't doubt that ICA had considered getting rid of Caylee before,but whatever happened on June 15th set that desire into motion.
I think the duct tape was placed on Caylee in Casey's bedroom the night of the 15th.JMO

 

[bayouland]

I keep thinking about ICA's meltdown when Caylee's body was discovered and feel it was because she knew that if the body were found too soon it could be determined how she died.

 

[Tuffy]

I keep thinking about ICA's meltdown when Caylee's body was discovered and feel it was because she knew that if the body were found too soon it could be determined how she died.

I don't think she wanted it to ever be found. All the evidence with it, and the duct tape, pointed right to Casey killing her. Casey knew this. Casey wanted Caylee to go on being a "missing child" forever.

I think she thought Caylee wasn't going to be found because after all the initial searching, she still hadn't been found.

God bless Mr. Kronk!

 

[miss plum]

Like Miss James, I think it's very possible Caylee died during the night of 15 June. That is 31 days back from when she was finally reported missing, and KC said 31 days over and over.
Perhaps CA said she heard them breathing on the morning of the 16th because KC was in her room with Caylee's body wrapped in a laundry bag and tucked under the blankets and KC feigned loud snoring to keep CA out.
I do think there was a fight the night before and KC stayed in her room all morning with poor deceased Caylee. Perhaps GA was too afraid to provoke KC after the fight so he tiptoed around and left them in peace.
I can imagine a fight happening where CA threatened to get custody and KC said no, she would take Caylee away from them and Caylee got upset and said she wanted to stay with CA and GA and it triggered a narcissistic rage in KC, so that when everyone was asleep she killed her, to punish her and punish them. In court, KC gets very angry when people say things she doesn't like, she shakes her head and she wants them silenced.
If GA ever did see KC and Caylee on the 16 June, I think Caylee's body was wrapped in a laundry bag and looked like a load of laundry KC was taking out to the garage. I can envision her brazenly waltzing past her father carrying a dead Caylee, and then him later remembering the bag and the silence all morning, and being filled with dread, and tweaking his story slightly.
I think it's possible KC put Caylee in the trunk in the laundry bag, and then wrapped her in the second laundry bag/trash bag on the day she borrowed the shovel. I've thought before that KC might have borrowed the shovel so she could view the Anthony backyard from the neighbor's house and see how much privacy she had. But she also might have used the shovel to put the body into the trash bag, and then wiped the shovel on the grass and/or rinsed it in the pool.
I recall KC could not bear to sleep in her own room when she was on bail.
These are just some of my thoughts about how things might have happened. Of course I don't know, and probably never will.

 

[darnudes]

I've been working on this theory for a while and would like to hear opinions on it. I'm not going to include every detail for the whole day but the ones I think are important.

June 16

8.03am - IM whiteplayboi - Casey states she is moving into her house at the end of the mouth (she already told him 4 days ago the house/apt will at Andover or around her parents place)

So far this is the story as normal, moving out into a place with Amy and Caylee at the end of the mouth.

11.47pm - Tony calls Casey 19mins - Casey's made up her mind that she's staying at Tony's and Caylee will never be coming home again.

12.50pm - Casey and Caylee leave the house
Casey has told her father that they will be staying overnight at Zany's.
Caylee's backpack(once recovered) contains no extra clothes and is found in the trunk.

12.53pm - Casey texts Tony
12.55pm - Tony texts Casey
1.00pm - Tony calls Casey 14mins

1.14pm End of call - Casey and Caylee are in the car somewhere, she could be driving but doubtful as no money for gas - Tony does not mention hearing Caylee on this phone call

1.26pm - Casey texts Jesse - I think Caylee was killed or chloroformed -before or after this text.

1.44pm - Casey calls Amy 36mins

2.20pm - End of Call - Casey and Caylee still in the car, Amy does not mention hearing Caylee on this phone call. If Casey parks car just down the street this is the approx time George is leaving and Casey sees him, ends call with Amy as she knows the coast is clear to go back to the house.

2.15pm-2.30pm - George is leaving the house

2.30pm - Casey must be back in the house as computer usage is high again - Did she duct tape Caylee to finish the job at this point, there really is no time to do that and also be on the computer.

2.52pm - Jesse calls Casey 12mins
This is the first time the story now changes and Casey's mother has changed her mind and it is now Casey that has to move out, tells Jesse she can't stay at home. There would only be one reason that Casey can no longer stay at home because Caylee is no longer alive or Casey has made the decision that she will finish Caylee off.

2.00pm-3.00pm - High computer usage, suggesting that Casey is in the house and on the computer.

3.04pm - End of call with Jesse
3.30pm - George calls the house
3.04pm - George calls Casey

3.35pm - Casey calls Tony 22sec

3.00pm-4.00pm - Low computer usage, suggesting that Casey is getting some stuff together and tidying house to make it look like she's not been there - there is time available here for her to duct tape Caylee - if there is no post mortem banding on the hair in the duct tape and Caylee was still alive when it was put on it would have to be on this day that she does that - if Casey had just chloroformed Caylee and left her in the car until 2pm the next day I believe Caylee would have been dead already by that point - Also Casey backs her car into the garage the next day so she knew that Caylee was dead in the back.

4.10pm - Casey calls George 34sec - Casey notices missed call on phone from George and she wants to know where George is and why is he calling.

4.11pm - 4.13pm - Casey calls Cindy 4 times - I suspect to find out where George is and is he on his way home.

4.14pm - Casey calls George 98secs - Casey is still trying to find out where he is.

4.14pm - Casey leaves the house and starts driving towards Tony's place

4.19pm - Casey calls Tony 1min

4.21 pm - Casey calls Jesse 2 times 75secs

4.25pm - Casey calls Cindy

6.31pm - Casey calls Cindy
6.32pm - Casey calls Cindy
6.32pm - Casey calls Home

7.06pm - Casey calls Home 83secs

Crisis averted

7.50pm - Casey and Tony at Blockbuster Video

I suspect it is George's call to the house and then to Casey that sets off the flurry of calls from 4.10pm. I think she tries to find out from Cindy why he is calling her then says what the hell and leaves the house at 4.14pm.
After she left house I think some panic may have sent and so there are numerous calls to set up alibis/stories and to let Jesse/Tony/Cindy know that all is good in Casey world.

- I think the doll was left in plain view in the car so that Casey had something there of Caylee's to show people.
- I think the backpack was tossed in the trunk because that would have looked suspicious without Caylee
- Thinking about Caylee's clothes and Casey's comment "they haven't even found her clothes yet" - I think Casey took off those well known clothes (and perhaps shoes) and put her in the ones less well known to Cindy, the big trouble tshirt and shorts (which may have been the sleeping clothes she kept in her trunk for when she and Caylee would stay at Ricardos) and I think Casey dumped the clothes somewhere, perhaps even in the dumpster at Amscot.

Amended due to feedback from Irisheyes, thank you

 

[Cubby]

I have not followed this case closely so the following is just something that crossed my mind after learning a little more since the trial started.

When the judge mentioned 'why didn't she just kill her parents then' (or something like that ) it was an eye opening moment for me. With all the talk of Casey getting the house, her parents getting divorced, her dad having an affair, the searches for household weapons, the search for making chloroform, it almost sounds as if ICA was planning on murdering her parents. With her parents gone her money and housing troubles would be over. (Lee would have likely bowed out of taking any monies from his parents estate allowing ICA to take them all since she had a young child to care for and he was more than able to care for himself. She would have continued to prey upon friends such as Amy who needed a place to stay/live in exchange for baby sitting services..... or she could have had parties at the house with her parents gone. )

I can not help but wonder if Caylee somehow got into some chemicals of some kind which ICA had collected to murder her parents, was overcome by or ingested those chemicals and then died. There is NO WAY Casey could have said this was an accident at that time because an autopsy along with other evidence collected may have proven Caylee died as a result of an accident that occured in the planning of the murder of someone else (those someone else's being Cindy and George). I believe in that case ICA would have still been charged with murder - where as the carp DT 'accidental drowning' theory came along only after it was known a cause of death could not be obtained/found for Caylee. (and ICA was still insistent on being innocent).

I think the duct tape was put on Caylees mouth after she was deceased with the thought Casey could 'stage' it as a kidnapping. Same reason she abandoned her car 'staged' with her purse, car seat and other items left behind. Her story would have been more believable had she not been stupid enough to put the heart sticker on the duct tape.

After Caylees death, I don't believe ICA planned on coming back home and would have 'drifted' until she latched onto someone who would take care of her and Caylee would have remained a missing child.

All jmo, but I really think the plan WAS for ICA to murder her parents and a terrible tragedy occured costing Caylee her life before ICA could implement her plan to kill her parents.

ETA: The above is the only logical reason I can come up with why ICA sat in jail for almost 3 years awaiting trial only to come up with this cockamamy (sp?) theory of an accidental drowning in the pool.

 

[SMK]

I have not followed this case closely so the following is just something that crossed my mind after learning a little more since the trial started.

When the judge mentioned 'why didn't she just kill her parents then' (or something like that ) it was an eye opening moment for me. With all the talk of Casey getting the house, her parents getting divorced, her dad having an affair, the searches for household weapons, the search for making chloroform, it almost sounds as if ICA was planning on murdering her parents. With her parents gone her money and housing troubles would be over. (Lee would have likely bowed out of taking any monies from his parents estate allowing ICA to take them all since she had a young child to care for and he was more than able to care for himself. She would have continued to prey upon friends such as Amy who needed a place to stay/live in exchange for baby sitting services..... or she could have had parties at the house with her parents gone. )

I can not help but wonder if Caylee somehow got into some chemicals of some kind which ICA had collected to murder her parents, was overcome by or ingested those chemicals and then died. There is NO WAY Casey could have said this was an accident at that time because an autopsy along with other evidence collected may have proven Caylee died as a result of an accident that occured in the planning of the murder of someone else (those someone else's being Cindy and George). I believe in that case ICA would have still been charged with murder - where as the carp DT 'accidental drowning' theory came along only after it was known a cause of death could not be obtained/found for Caylee. (and ICA was still insistent on being innocent).

I think the duct tape was put on Caylees mouth after she was deceased with the thought Casey could 'stage' it as a kidnapping. Same reason she abandoned her car 'staged' with her purse, car seat and other items left behind. Her story would have been more believable had she not been stupid enough to put the heart sticker on the duct tape.

After Caylees death, I don't believe ICA planned on coming back home and would have 'drifted' until she latched onto someone who would take care of her and Caylee would have remained a missing child.

All jmo, but I really think the plan WAS for ICA to murder her parents and a terrible tragedy occured costing Caylee her life before ICA could implement her plan to kill her parents.

ETA: The above is the only logical reason I can come up with why ICA sat in jail for almost 3 years awaiting trial only to come up with this cockamamy (sp?) theory of an accidental drowning in the pool.

This sounds plausible: Just one question: Usually if someone wants to kill their parents to get Life Insurance, bank accounts, house, etc., they will make it look like a robbery, and promise someone a % of the proceeds to break in, shoot parents, etc. while they are out on the town, making sure to be seen all over to form their alibi. (I can think of 3 real life cases I have read of which went like this). If Casey planned to chloroform her parents, and then inherit all, would not the police have listed HER as the #1 suspect???:waitasec:

 

[GracieLu]

I have thought long and hard about "what happened to Caylee" and the only plausible theory/explanation I can come up with is this was a rage killing.

First, ICA left the house on June 16th telling her father she would be gone all evening and that they (she and Caylee) would be sleeping at "Zannys." We all know there wasn't a Zanny. So where on earth was Caylee sleeping June 16th? TL states he didn't feel comfortable with Caylee hanging out at his house because of the environment, CA was working late, GA was working, and no friends of ICA came forward stating ICA asked if they would watch Caylee. So who was watching Caylee?

Second, the "flury" of calls, I believe, were a made up Zanny excuse as to why she couldn't babysit that evening. ICA was prob calling CA/GA stating Zanny had been in an accident, won a lottery (lol), or some other made up lie and she needed a babysitter. Also, why didn't CA take the calls? At one point she talked to a counselor who told her she should get custody of Caylee (we dont know what she said but must of been pretty bad for a counselor to recommend that) and didn't she tell an old friend of ICA's that she was a psychopath and to stay away from her? So, why didn't she take her calls (her granddaughter is in the care of a "psychopath" right? IMO CA knew why she was calling! ICA prob called her with excuses like this all the time but this time CA put her foot down because stealing money from grandma was the last straw.

Now, in a rage ICA smothers Caylee because nobody was getting in the way of her date with TL! She places Caylee in her car and goes out. The next afternoon she goes back home, puts Caylee in the backyard, and borrows a shovel intending to bury her. She discovers its not easy digging a hole and puts Caylee back in her car until GA and the gas can fiasco. In a rush she throws Caylee out like trash w/duct tape on her mouth to look like a kidnapping.

IMO chloroform searches were related to her parents or friends. I believe she was going to use it to steal from them, possibly stage an accident and off her parents. She probably stored the chloroform in her car = high levels.

 

[Cubby]

This sounds plausible: Just one question: Usually if someone wants to kill their parents to get Life Insurance, bank accounts, house, etc., they will make it look like a robbery, and promise someone a % of the proceeds to break in, shoot parents, etc. while they are out on the town, making sure to be seen all over to form their alibi. (I can think of 3 real life cases I have read of which went like this). If Casey planned to chloroform her parents, and then inherit all, would not the police have listed HER as the #1 suspect???:waitasec:

Casey certainly would have been a suspect had she murdered her parents. Not to say she wouldn't be on trial for murdering someone other than Caylee - possibly her parents. I just don't think she intended to kill Caylee and that Caylee was somehow collateral damage (for a lack of a better what to phrase it) with whatever the reason was for Casey to have done many of the strange things and the topics about which Casey lied in the months preceeding Caylees death. Only Casey knows the truth and I don't think anyone but she and God will ever know exactly what that truth is.

jmo

 

[tasylshari]

This sounds plausible: Just one question: Usually if someone wants to kill their parents to get Life Insurance, bank accounts, house, etc., they will make it look like a robbery, and promise someone a % of the proceeds to break in, shoot parents, etc. while they are out on the town, making sure to be seen all over to form their alibi. (I can think of 3 real life cases I have read of which went like this). If Casey planned to chloroform her parents, and then inherit all, would not the police have listed HER as the #1 suspect???:waitasec:

Further to this, it is my fervent opinion that ICAs goal was to be FREE. Offing the two people that fed, clothed, took care of her, paid her bills, RAISED HER basically would be
shooting herself in the foot!
She wanted to unburden herself to live like a rockstar, not do the opposite, right?

 

[Cubby]

Further to this, it is my fervent opinion that ICAs goal was to be FREE. Offing the two people that fed, clothed, took care of her, paid her bills, RAISED HER basically would be
shooting herself in the foot!
She wanted to unburden herself to live like a rockstar, not do the opposite, right?

Actually she would have had much to gain, a home, any insurance money, basically the entire estate. Having her parents home at her age would have been HUGE in her mind at her age - having far more than her friends could show for their accomplishments at their age.

jmo

 

[tasylshari]

Actually she would have had much to gain, a home, any insurance money, basically the entire estate. Having her parents home at her age would have been HUGE in her mind at her age - having far more than her friends could show for their accomplishments at their age.

jmo

Along with a big house to take care of including gardening chores, etc.. NOT the freedom that many here believe she TRIED TO acheive.....

And no more free food, clothes, gas, money OR babysitting!!!

 

[SMK]

Actually she would have had much to gain, a home, any insurance money, basically the entire estate. Having her parents home at her age would have been HUGE in her mind at her age - having far more than her friends could show for their accomplishments at their age.

jmo

Yes, I see this----but how would chloroform poisoning be explained to the police ? ( as opposed to staging a robbery/shooting)? ESPECIALLY if she was the beneficiary of insurance and house? Not trying to pester, just really dying to know!!!

 

[Baznme]

This sounds plausible: Just one question: Usually if someone wants to kill their parents to get Life Insurance, bank accounts, house, etc., they will make it look like a robbery, and promise someone a % of the proceeds to break in, shoot parents, etc. while they are out on the town, making sure to be seen all over to form their alibi. (I can think of 3 real life cases I have read of which went like this). If Casey planned to chloroform her parents, and then inherit all, would not the police have listed HER as the #1 suspect???:waitasec:

We're not talking about the typical person that is logical in the thoughts or actions. I do think she played with thoughts of getting rid of everyone in the family other than her brother. Had "thoughts" of it. Not that she could pull it off but yes, she would have had a lot to gain, her independence, yet she would not have had to set foot out of that house. "Indeed, the irony is rich"!!!!

 

[SMK]

I have thought long and hard about "what happened to Caylee" and the only plausible theory/explanation I can come up with is this was a rage killing.

First, ICA left the house on June 16th telling her father she would be gone all evening and that they (she and Caylee) would be sleeping at "Zannys." We all know there wasn't a Zanny. So where on earth was Caylee sleeping June 16th? TL states he didn't feel comfortable with Caylee hanging out at his house because of the environment, CA was working late, GA was working, and no friends of ICA came forward stating ICA asked if they would watch Caylee. So who was watching Caylee?

Second, the "flury" of calls, I believe, were a made up Zanny excuse as to why she couldn't babysit that evening. ICA was prob calling CA/GA stating Zanny had been in an accident, won a lottery (lol), or some other made up lie and she needed a babysitter. Also, why didn't CA take the calls? At one point she talked to a counselor who told her she should get custody of Caylee (we dont know what she said but must of been pretty bad for a counselor to recommend that) and didn't she tell an old friend of ICA's that she was a psychopath and to stay away from her? So, why didn't she take her calls (her granddaughter is in the care of a "psychopath" right? IMO CA knew why she was calling! ICA prob called her with excuses like this all the time but this time CA put her foot down because stealing money from grandma was the last straw.

Now, in a rage ICA smothers Caylee because nobody was getting in the way of her date with TL! She places Caylee in her car and goes out. The next afternoon she goes back home, puts Caylee in the backyard, and borrows a shovel intending to bury her. She discovers its not easy digging a hole and puts Caylee back in her car until GA and the gas can fiasco. In a rush she throws Caylee out like trash w/duct tape on her mouth to look like a kidnapping.

IMO chloroform searches were related to her parents or friends. I believe she was going to use it to steal from them, possibly stage an accident and off her parents. She probably stored the chloroform in her car = high levels.

Yes, this may have been true. But if so, she was playing a VERY dangerous game. I know Amy H said she fell asleep at the wheel and totaled her car. Wonder if she breathed in any chloroform? But when you knock someone out to rob them , it is usually a stranger. How was she planning to explain to them later why they had passed out, and why their money was missing? Also, Casey would have made a very stupid criminal had she killed her parents with chloroform. She may have liked the idea of house, life insurance, bank accounts, and fantasized about it, but the first question cops and others would have had is, "How on earth did your parents die of chloroform"? Unless she knew something or had some plan I do not know of. Or she really has a screw loose.

 

[Cubby]

Yes, I see this----but how would chloroform poisoning be explained to the police ? ( as opposed to staging a robbery/shooting)? ESPECIALLY if she was the beneficiary of insurance and house? Not trying to pester, just really dying to know!!!

Perhaps to weaken her parents? I really can't pinpoint the why on chloroform. She would not have needed it for a 2.5 yr old child. Liquid benedryl or nyquil would have worked fine on a 2.5 yr old and been much easier to obtain.

I'm also thinking along the lines of the beneficiary of any life insurance policy, the estate... Additionally GA and CA having elderly parents and unless they had other children other than GA and CA ICA may have also 'inherited' that money somewhere in what she saw as the 'near future'. The money she stole from family(including her elderly grandparent(s) and being cut off from having easy access to that money has some part in this somewhere.

 

[Baznme]

Yes, I see this----but how would chloroform poisoning be explained to the police ? ( as opposed to staging a robbery/shooting)? ESPECIALLY if she was the beneficiary of insurance and house? Not trying to pester, just really dying to know!!!

Out of all the searches for a means of doing harm to someone, chloroform was only one of those. If....and that's a big IF.......she had thoughts of doing harm to her parents, I don't think just chloroform would have been the only tool. Maybe to get control of them at first and then do something else, such as looking like self-defense, rupturing someone's spleen.....maybe with a shovel......??? I don't even like typing this but after today's testimony about the computer searches, my mind just took off as to how logically she was going to pull this off. Since chloroform is supposed to evaporate rapidly, she may have thought there would be no trace of it afterwards and LE would not have suspected her. I mean, c'mon.....she thought if she deleted files there would be no way to find those searches. At the end of that testimony, you see JB asking ICA something, she says "no, I didn't", I believe. He looks at her as if he FINALLY doesn't believe her. He seems downright disgusted. If anyone could find that part of the video, I would love for you to see it.

 

[SMK]

Perhaps to weaken her parents? I really can't pinpoint the why on chloroform. She would not have needed it for a 2.5 yr old child. Liquid benedryl or nyquil would have worked fine on a 2.5 yr old and been much easier to obtain.

I'm also thinking along the lines of the beneficiary of any life insurance policy, the estate... Additionally GA and CA having elderly parents and unless they had other children other than GA and CA ICA may have also 'inherited' that money somewhere in what she saw as the 'near future'. The money she stole from family(including her elderly grandparent(s) and being cut off from having easy access to that money has some part in this somewhere.

I have an idea: As you say, "weaken" her parents. Maybe she thought she could give them low doses or fumes and cause a car accident? Or stage one? Or perhaps chloroform them to sleep and start a house fire? THEN she really would have gotten all............

 

[TripleA]

I had this same exact thought today while istening to the testimony, that the chloroform was for her parents. Why would she need chloroform for Caylee when she could have easily just thrown her in the pool and screamed "accidental drowning".

I think she was trying to figure out how to kill her parents and maybe make it look like a domestic violence double homicide with Cindy and George killing one another in a dramatic "War of the Roses" type scenario.

I think she was testing the chloroform on Caylee (maybe Amy too at one point) to see how effective it would be and overdosed the poor baby girl. With all of the choloroform forensic evidence, she probably firgures that jury confusion of pool chlorine vs chloroform levels is the best lie at this point.