this is my opinion of course

[little1]

Agreed. No problem here. Peace :truce: :blowkiss:

I don't know if I like the arguing or the making up more?!?!? :blowkiss:

 

[BlueCrab]

(John moved the body later that morning when he went into the basement by himself.) Now if he went to the basement later by himself, who saw him do that?IMO

John admitted he went into the basement later that morning by himself and "checked the broken window". No one believes that.

IMO that's when John moved JonBenet out into the open so she would be found easier. The Ramseys expected her to be found within minutes after the cops got there, but it didn't happen. John and Patsy couldn't stand it any longer, so John moved the body around 10 to 11 A.M.

It's why Fleet White didn't see the body at 6 A.M.; it wasn't there when he looked into the wine cellar at 6 A.M.

JMO

 

[little1]

Where was it? It had to be in the basement, right? JR wouldn't have tried to carry a body around that house with people and cops everyhere. If it was in the basement, why didn't FW OR JR see it before---in the initial first search? WHat other rooms in the basement were not checked that morning?

Actually, did the police ever do a complete search of that house--not a week later--but that day? A complete once over, you know to gather evidence?

 

[ICU]

ICU...if an intruder wrote the note and did it beforehand, how in the heck did he manage to sneak into the house with it, without folding it or getting it smudged and dirty and wrinkly? besides, the note was written on paper from the Ramseys' tablet, with their pen.

IMO

Ivy, If the intruder used an envelope the size of the letter it would keep it in good shape, I do not believe he sneaked into the house, however he just unlocked the door and let himself in. It would be easy to get paper from the Ramsey house if you were there before, and pens are not hard to find, I could pick up all that stuff at my friends house, even without his knowledge. I do not believe that the intruder was a sloppy person, I always thought that he was smart and organized, he wouldn’t have left a ransom note in bad shape.
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IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Where was it? It had to be in the basement, right? JR wouldn't have tried to carry a body around that house with people and cops everyhere. If it was in the basement, why didn't FW OR JR see it before---in the initial first search? WHat other rooms in the basement were not checked that morning?

Actually, did the police ever do a complete search of that house--not a week later--but that day? A complete once over, you know to gather evidence?

The cops were thrown off that morning by the ransom note. They thought it was a kidnapping and didn't think JonBenet was still in the house. Of course, that's no excuse for the cop's sloppy search of the house and not sealing off the whole house immediately after getting there. Kidnapping is a serious crime too.

Where was the body before John moved it? I don't know; it's only my theory. My guess is tucked somewhere behind the debris stored in the basement.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

The truth is most of you who are so damn sure that they are guilty, cannot even agree on who actually committed the murder. There are more scenarios flying around here and other websites that would make ANY movie screenwriter jealous.

What the majority of us agree on is that there was nobody in the house that night except the four members of the Ramsey family. There is no way to know for sure which of the surviving three was responsible for JonBenet's death and which (or how many) of the three were involved in the staging to cover-up what really happened. Each of the three Ramseys had the ability and opportunity to commit the crime, so all three are prime suspects.

Steve Thomas was right on the money when he said that unless there is a confession, this case will never be solved.

 

[ICU]

John admitted he went into the basement later that morning by himself and "checked the broken window". No one believes that.

IMO that's when John moved JonBenet out into the open so she would be found easier. The Ramseys expected her to be found within minutes after the cops got there, but it didn't happen. John and Patsy couldn't stand it any longer, so John moved the body around 10 to 11 A.M.

It's why Fleet White didn't see the body at 6 A.M.; it wasn't there when he looked into the wine cellar at 6 A.M.

JMO

OK then if we are talking about moving bodies around the basement, how about this, the intruder is playing games with the Ramseys, now this is only because we are talking about shuffling the body around. After the intruder kills the girl he hides the body because he believes that the Ramseys might conduct a house search for their daughter, he does not want to spoil the fun of his ransom note, now sense the body can be hidden in the basement and no one can seem to find her after a search, the intruder gets a call from Patsy that morning, after the Ramseys tell him she is missing, he does a search, the intruder goes down to the basement and moves the body closer to the door in the wine cellar, so she will be found, because the suspense is killing him, that she had not been found yet. A little screwy but so is the part about John moving his dead daughter around like a bag of garbage. Why can't anyone see that the intruder could be playing games with the Ramseys?
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IMO

 

[Britt]

Ivy, If the intruder used an envelope the size of the letter it would keep it in good shape, I do not believe he sneaked into the house, however he just unlocked the door and let himself in. It would be easy to get paper from the Ramsey house if you were there before, and pens are not hard to find, I could pick up all that stuff at my friends house, even without his knowledge. I do not believe that the intruder was a sloppy person, I always thought that he was smart and organized, he wouldn’t have left a ransom note in bad shape.

Yeah, points for tidiness, that's it

The intruder claimed to have two male accomplices (see note). Perhaps the intruder/notewriter wrote the note while the accomplices were committing or staging the crime, or perhaps while they were having pineapple with JonBenet. Tidy AND efficient, this faction.

But IMO Patsy wrote the note and the two male accomplices were John and Burke, but that's JMO... and technically speaking, Burke may've been an accomplice after the fact (by lying to participate, knowingly or not, in the coverup).

 

[ICU]

The cops were thrown off that morning by the ransom note. They thought it was a kidnapping and didn't think JonBenet was still in the house. Of course, that's no excuse for the cop's sloppy search of the house and not sealing off the whole house immediately after getting there. Kidnapping is a serious crime too.

Where was the body before John moved it? I don't know; it's only my theory. My guess is tucked somewhere behind the debris stored in the basement.

JMO

If a call came in that there was a kidnapping, and the police got there, why would they seal of the house? wouldn't that be done if there was a murder in the house? the one thing that I found strange is that the detective in charge asked John and Fleet to look around, I am surprised they did not ask Fleet to Flee the establishment.

Why in the world would she be tucked somewhere behind the debris stored in the basement, only to have to take the chance on being caught moving her to an obvious place, how would he know were to put the body were Fleet had not looked. that would be ludicrous. He would have known that it would definitely implicate him. Look if John and Patsy had killed her then staged it to look like a kidnapping, the nature of the crime shows no remorse, why not jest leave it until it rot, then it would be found, then they could look surprised and Fleet could say hey I did not see her there.
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IMO

 

[ICU]

Yeah, points for tidiness, that's it

The intruder claimed to have two male accomplices (see note). Perhaps the intruder/notewriter wrote the note while the accomplices were committing or staging the crime, or perhaps while they were having pineapple with JonBenet. Tidy AND efficient, this faction.

But IMO Patsy wrote the note and the two male accomplices were John and Burke, but that's JMO... and technically speaking, Burke may've been an accomplice after the fact (by lying to participate, knowingly or not, in the coverup).

Why isn't Burke in a psychiatric ward, do you have any idea what a murder like this could do to the mind of a nine year old boy? Have you ever known a nine year old boy keeping a secret? never mind a secret murder, He would have to brain dead. the Ramseys would be plotting his murder next, for fear that he will talk when it gets to much for him.
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IMO

 

[ICU]

What the majority of us agree on is that there was nobody in the house that night except the four members of the Ramsey family. There is no way to know for sure which of the surviving three was responsible for JonBenet's death and which (or how many) of the three were involved in the staging to cover-up what really happened. Each of the three Ramseys had the ability and opportunity to commit the crime, so all three are prime suspects.

Steve Thomas was right on the money when he said that unless there is a confession, this case will never be solved.

Shylock You said "What the majority of us agree on is that there was nobody in the house that night except the four members of the Ramsey family." Don't forget the intruder.

 

[ICU]

The cops were thrown off that morning by the ransom note. They thought it was a kidnapping and didn't think JonBenet was still in the house. Of course, that's no excuse for the cop's sloppy search of the house and not sealing off the whole house immediately after getting there. Kidnapping is a serious crime too.

Where was the body before John moved it? I don't know; it's only my theory. My guess is tucked somewhere behind the debris stored in the basement.

JMO

BlueCrab You said "The cops were thrown off that morning by the ransom note."

You forgot to mention that the keystone cops were thrown off by the whole darn case.

 

[Toltec]

Let's get some facts straight...John went into the basement BEFORE Detective Linda Arndt showed up..at around 8:10am. He told LE that he went into the basement between 7-9am. We know it is more like 7-8am. It's in the NE book...

Second, I believe JonBenet's body was tucked further into the wine cellar which explains why Fleet did not see her. When John went downstairs, he moved JonBenet closer to the door.

IMO

 

[ICU]

Where was it? It had to be in the basement, right? JR wouldn't have tried to carry a body around that house with people and cops everyhere. If it was in the basement, why didn't FW OR JR see it before---in the initial first search? WHat other rooms in the basement were not checked that morning?

Actually, did the police ever do a complete search of that house--not a week later--but that day? A complete once over, you know to gather evidence?

Little1 You Asked "why didn't FW OR JR see it before---in the initial first search?"

I believe that FW did see her, because that is just where he left her. John knew that FW checked the wine cellar, so all he did was look at the broken window in the basement, so they say. I believe that he would have no reason to believe that his daughter was in the basement because the note said that she was kidnapped. It wasn't until the detective told John and Fleet to check around for anything unusual, is when he checked the basement, However if Fleet said that he checked the wine cellar, why didn't he yell out to John that he already looked there and not to bother because he did not see anything? instead he let John discover his daughter.
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IMO

 

[why_nutt]

Second, I believe JonBenet's body was tucked further into the wine cellar which explains why Fleet did not see her. When John went downstairs, he moved JonBenet closer to the door.

IMO

I can find this credible because of one specific aspect of the case. If you look at the picture of the white blanket on the cellar floor, you can see that it is positioned directly over the safe which was drilled into the ground. But JonBenet's body shows no signs of laying over the safe for any length of time. There is no blanching of her back's lividity in the shape of the safe's door. The blanket does not appear to be so thick that it would absorb the height of the safe hinges and handle in such a way as to leave no mark on JonBenet. If, as you speculate, JonBenet was positioned somewhere other than over the safe, her body would have been laying on smooth ground and lividity would be unremarkable.

Note: If, on the other hand, JonBenet's body truly was left over the safe and not moved, then this speaks to even more concern on the part of the killer for JonBenet's "comfort." The killer might have left the blanket under JonBenet specifically to protect her body from being marked by the safe door. An intruder would have no instinctive reason to make her comfortable this way. A parent would instinctively do so.

 

[ICU]

Let's get some facts straight...John went into the basement BEFORE Detective Linda Arndt showed up..at around 8:10am. He told LE that he went into the basement between 7-9am. We know it is more like 7-8am. It's in the NE book...

Second, I believe JonBenet's body was tucked further into the wine cellar which explains why Fleet did not see her. When John went downstairs, he moved JonBenet closer to the door.

IMO

I was under the impression that Fleet was there at 6:am and that he was in the basement alone, looking at his prey. then John went down later to check on the window that he remembered was broken, he must have had a bad feeling that because he did not fix it, it made it easy for the intruder to get in and take his daughter out through the same window, of course not thinking that the intruder had a key. I'm sure that FW told the Ramseys that he checked the basement and did not see anything unusual.
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IMO

 

[ICU]

I can find this credible because of one specific aspect of the case. If you look at the picture of the white blanket on the cellar floor, you can see that it is positioned directly over the safe which was drilled into the ground. But JonBenet's body shows no signs of laying over the safe for any length of time. There is no blanching of her back's lividity in the shape of the safe's door. The blanket does not appear to be so thick that it would absorb the height of the safe hinges and handle in such a way as to leave no mark on JonBenet. If, as you speculate, JonBenet was positioned somewhere other than over the safe, her body would have been laying on smooth ground and lividity would be unremarkable.

Note: If, on the other hand, JonBenet's body truly was left over the safe and not moved, then this speaks to even more concern on the part of the killer for JonBenet's "comfort." The killer might have left the blanket under JonBenet specifically to protect her body from being marked by the safe door. An intruder would have no instinctive reason to make her comfortable this way. A parent would instinctively do so.

why_nutt Where were able to obtain the picture you spoke of about the safe? I would like to look at that, thank you.
However you sopke of the instinctive reason to cover the child in the blanket, I believe that empirically if the parents did it. when the blanket was used to cover her in a cocoon style to comfort her, I wonder why they left the arms outstretched, why not take them down and wrap the blanket around her as if she were sleeping in bed? I think that an intruder used the blanket to stop her from kicking him. I do not think that there was any comfort for JonBenet.

 

[BlueCrab]

Why isn't Burke in a psychiatric ward, do you have any idea what a murder like this could do to the mind of a nine year old boy? Have you ever known a nine year old boy keeping a secret? never mind a secret murder, He would have to brain dead. the Ramseys would be plotting his murder next, for fear that he will talk when it gets to much for him.
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IMO

Patsy and Burke were both under the care of psychiatrists following the murder, and they still may be. I don't know about John.

JMO

 

[Barbara]

Little1 You Asked "why didn't FW OR JR see it before---in the initial first search?"

I believe that FW did see her, because that is just where he left her. John knew that FW checked the wine cellar, so all he did was look at the broken window in the basement, so they say. I believe that he would have no reason to believe that his daughter was in the basement because the note said that she was kidnapped. It wasn't until the detective told John and Fleet to check around for anything unusual, is when he checked the basement, However if Fleet said that he checked the wine cellar, why didn't he yell out to John that he already looked there and not to bother because he did not see anything? instead he let John discover his daughter.
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IMO

Believe it or not, we have something in common. If your theory is that Fleet White killed JBR, then like me, you also have no faith that the DNA is a viable piece of evidence. After all, Fleet White's DNA was also tested and did not match.

Now having said that, it must also be your opinion, given your past posts about FW's involvement in a child sex ring that John Ramsey is also a pedophile, because nobody with common sense can separate the fact that John Ramsey was also accused along with Fleet of being a part of this pedophile ring.

So you see, every theory has a common thread.

 

[ICU]

Believe it or not, we have something in common. If your theory is that Fleet White killed JBR, then like me, you also have no faith that the DNA is a viable piece of evidence. After all, Fleet White's DNA was also tested and did not match.

Now having said that, it must also be your opinion, given your past posts about FW's involvement in a child sex ring that John Ramsey is also a pedophile, because nobody with common sense can separate the fact that John Ramsey was also accused along with Fleet of being a part of this pedophile ring.

So you see, every theory has a common thread.

I'm sorry I do not believe that I said anything about a child sex ring.

But DNA is interesting, What did they try to match FW's DNA to? What was on the body, that did not belong to JonBenet other than the ligerture and tape? They tried to match what piece of evidence that they thought had DNA on it? You have me very curious about that. I know that it is almost impossible to go into a room and not leave DNA there, We are DNA shedders from the time we are born to the time we die, it is like a paper trail of our lives. FW’s DNA must have been all over the house, including the Basement. Now that is really strange about FW’s DNA not being found on her, considering that even if she walked to the basement she should have picked up some of his DNA. What is your thoughts on that? I can not believe that the maid is that good at cleaning house.
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”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO