TH's cell phone pings

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I sure hope this case does not come down to these cell phone pings, if they are suddenly so unreliable...this (cell pings) was one thing I believed in, as far as use in court, but if they can't be trusted, that could change/challenge a lot of cases. I wonder if it is something that could even spark appeals.
 
I sure hope this case does not come down to these cell phone pings, if they are suddenly so unreliable...this (cell pings) was one thing I believed in, as far as use in court, but if they can't be trusted, that could change/challenge a lot of cases. I wonder if it is something that could even spark appeals.

Good point. I think that cell phone pings would be treated like any other evidence, and would be used in conjunction WITH the other evidence to build a case.

It sounds as if there alot of variables with the pings, and thank-you to everyone here for the information on the subject.
 
I sure hope this case does not come down to these cell phone pings, if they are suddenly so unreliable...this (cell pings) was one thing I believed in, as far as use in court, but if they can't be trusted, that could change/challenge a lot of cases. I wonder if it is something that could even spark appeals.

Cell pings aren't unreliable...they were never that exact to begin with. Info obtained from cell pings is a useful tool that can be used in some cases. It doesn't work in ALL cases. But it's only one piece of information. By itself it usually doesn't make a prosecution case, though it can help to show a suspect is somewhere other than where they claim to have been at the time of the crime. This is wholly dependent upon different cell towers being accessed by the phone.

In the Scott Peterson case, as I said earlier in a prior post, getting ping data from SP's phone worked to decrease the timeline for the "abduction" of Lacy Peterson because he claimed he was somewhere else at the time she disappeared and the ping data showed he was close to his house, based on the cell tower being utilized by his phone at that exact time.

But as an example of how it might not help: in my area a husband will be on trial this fall for murdering his wife. There are a couple phone calls he made and received while going back 'n forth to a local grocery store, running errands for the wife (at 6:30am). The wife was already dead and dumped before those trips to the store. But the same cell tower services both his home and that grocery store, so the ping data doesn't tell LE anything definitive about exactly where he was at the time of the calls.

Ping data off the cell tower in and of itself doesn't tell LE the exact spot you're standing in when your phone is using that tower (unless you are utilizing a GPS function of your phone in which lat & long is being broadcast). It tells them the area your phone is in.
 
(All below assumes a cellphone with no GPS tracking; I am assuming this because the searches are said to have been prompted by cell phone pings, and the search locations are all around the island. IMO, if her phone had GPS they would search in a different way)

http://searchengineland.com/cell-phone-triangulation-accuracy-is-all-over-the-map-14790

Ok, I have been reading about locating a person via cell phone pings. Cell phones are pinging whether you are using them or not. To get a really close location, you need three towers in the vicinity. (Thus the "cell phone triangulation").

For example: I have only 1 cell tower with a 4 mile radius. A ping can only indicate I am somewhere in that radius. Now, I have 2 cell towers. If they are far apart and their circles are seperate, it's just like having 1 tower. If, however their circles join, and both towers pick up the ping, then I am somewhere in the location where they both have signal. If I have three towers that ping me, now I can get REALLY close to the location- it's somewhere that all three join up. It's easier to see if you scroll down and look at the three circles in the above link.

Then there is the issue of whether or not the cellphone antenna is a directional antenna. If you have two towers that intersect WITH directional antennae, then the entire intersecting area doesn't have to be covered. This is also shown in the link, with two circles and the direction being represented.

What I would like to know is this: As you enter and go deeper into Sauvie, where are the cellphone towers and what is their radius? Are they using omnidirectional or directional antennae? I want to know how close one can actually come to pinpointing that someone is on that island by cell pings.

Guess the only way to do that is to start googling the towers and their reception circles and map it out. If I ever get it all figured out I will post. I'm kind of hoping someone else here might have a map of all the local towers and their corresponding radii. :)

Here's a snippet of the article:

However, there are many places where there are fewer cell towers available, such as in the fringes of the cities and out in the country. If you have fewer than three cell towers available, pinpointing a mobile device can become a lot less precise. In cities where there are a lot more vertical structures which can be barriers to cell phone broadcasting and receiving, there have to be many more cell towers distributed in order to have good service. In the countryside, there are relatively fewer cell towers and a phone’s signal may be picked up only by a single one at much greater distance.
Those areas where a phone is only getting picked up by a single tower, and if it’s equipped with only omnidirectional antennae, the accuracy becomes even less.
 
Tragco,
Go to my post #168 in the MCSO searches SI again thread, you will see the cell tower info on the area and there's another site you can use called antennasearch.com.
 
In this picture (which wasn't taken by me) you can see what appear to be 3 cellphone towers. The towers are in the center of the picture, behind the stop sign:

http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af163/synpodcast/?action=view&current=IMG_1731.jpg

This picture was taken on Sauvie Island, just over the bridge. The towers are southeast of the island, and are across the river. Cellreception.com shows two towers at about that location. There is a power station near the towers but I don't believe they are related to it. I did find them on Google Street View at one point. Whether Terri's phone would ping off one, two or all three towers if it were in that location I don't know but there are line-of-sight towers in the area.
 
I asked this in another thread, but is more suitable here:

Was it confirmed that there:
A) were cell pings on Sauvie Island; and
B) that cell phone belonged to Terri?

Define "confirmed" LOL! Just kidding!

I believe it's one of the family of sources....since LE has not really confirmed much of anything publicly! KOIN did talk about a resident seeing a white truck on Sauvie the day Kyron went missing. Have to rewind my tape and see if they also say pings. Still...I think you'll find everything comes back to the WW story. ;)

ETA: Just rewound the tape and KOIN says "there are also published reports that say her cell phone sent out a signal from the island the day he disappeared'
Again....I think they are referring to the WW story.
 
Define "confirmed" LOL! Just kidding!

I believe it's one of the family of sources....since LE has not really confirmed much of anything publicly! KOIN did talk about a resident seeing a white truck on Sauvie the day Kyron went missing. Have to rewind my tape and see if they also say pings. Still...I think you'll find everything comes back to the WW story. ;)

ETA: Just rewound the tape and KOIN says "there are also published reports that say her cell phone sent out a signal from the island the day he disappeared'
Again....I think they are referring to the WW story.

Perhaps Calliope will come along and be kind enough to recap again the whisper-down-the-lane string of sources, none of whom are involved in the case, from whom that info came.


Then we have in the 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian where Desiree says that Terri said that LE told her a ping from her phone didn't match. Which could, of course, have simply been LE trying to get more info from Terri.
 
Perhaps Calliope will come along and be kind enough to recap again the whisper-down-the-lane string of sources, none of whom are involved in the case, from whom that info came.


Then we have in the 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian where Desiree says that Terri said that LE told her a ping from her phone didn't match. Which could, of course, have simply been LE trying to get more info from Terri.

Right! And that coupled with the eye witness(es) that saw a white pickup on the island that morning...maybe that's as close to confirmed as we're going to get. :confused:
 
The Horman truck? Or just a generic white pickup?

I believe they said a truck similar to this one and showed the Horman truck. Want me to record it and upload? It's not much more than that though....
 
Perhaps Calliope will come along and be kind enough to recap again the whisper-down-the-lane string of sources, none of whom are involved in the case, from whom that info came.


Then we have in the 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian where Desiree says that Terri said that LE told her a ping from her phone didn't match. Which could, of course, have simply been LE trying to get more info from Terri.

Thank you so much BillyLee and Chilifries! That is helping me get the info :blowkiss: . I am just now going to view.

BeanE, that's kind of what I am trying to figure out. Are these searches really able to be related to cell phone pings exclusively or is there some other information out there we don't know about? If I can find where two towers radii intersect and they are searching only those areas, well that would tend to support the ping theory.

If I find the areas being searched aren't really a match with cell towers, then there's something else LE has that we don't know.

It's probably not that much, just finding out if the cell pings are really the source of the search, but it gives me something to look into while I wait.
 
I'm sure someone has mentioned before that it's not unusual to hop to a far away tower. I recently pinged on Canadian cell towers from the San Juan Islands in State of Washington. I knew because the provider said "ROGERS" on my phone (a Canadian cell provider).

I live in Portland, but I haven't done any research in the Skyline area about the cell towers. If someone were really gung-ho about sleuthing this one, they could enable a feature, or install an app on their cellphone that shows detailed signal strength, e.g. exact signal strength in dB. Drive around the area and figure out thee or four positions where the signals are strongest, then figure out when it hops to a new tower while driving towards the Sauvie Island area. If you're still in Skyline at the time it drops, and the signal steadily increases while heading towards Sauvie Island, you can presume that you've hopped to a Sauvie tower. Has anyone done any tests like that?
 
What about if you are in an area that gets no cell signal? Would it still be possible to get pings from it?

Someone else might have already answered this question, but I'll have a go at it.

I learned about cell phone pings during the Laci Peterson case, in which Scott Peterson's cell phone pings confirmed that on many occasions he was lying about his whereabouts. Sometimes there were even transcripts of taped calls that confirmed he was saying he was in one place when really he was in another location.

Someone looked up a bunch of information about how cell phone towers worked, and we discovered that the towers "call out" to the phones that are in the area.

Around that same time, my teenage daughter had a cell phone that she earned for being a youth teen member of the local school board. It was our family's first cellphone, so I paid attention to where the phone seemed to "ping" from a tower.

We noticed that one place in the mountains the phone would lose a signal, then suddenly come back to life as we neared a certain ridge with a tower. Sometimes the phone would actually "ping" or make a noise.

So yes, you don't really "ping" if you are in between towers, but as you drive along, the next tower will definitely pick up the signal.

And as I understand it, newer phones also have longitude and latitude capabilities, so they are more like GPS trackers, which is how they find people who are lost just by using their cell phone signals.
 
Perhaps Calliope will come along and be kind enough to recap again the whisper-down-the-lane string of sources, none of whom are involved in the case, from whom that info came.


Then we have in the 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian where Desiree says that Terri said that LE told her a ping from her phone didn't match. Which could, of course, have simply been LE trying to get more info from Terri.

To me, Desiree wasn't talking about which tower on Sauvie Island might have pinged that day, but the fact that TH was lying about where she was.

That is the value of cell phone pings - not to determine exact whereabouts, but to show a pattern of lying by a person of interest. JMO
 
To me, Desiree wasn't talking about which tower on Sauvie Island might have pinged that day, but the fact that TH was lying about where she was.

That is the value of cell phone pings - not to determine exact whereabouts, but to show a pattern of lying by a person of interest. JMO

Yes, you're right that Desiree never mentioned Sauvie, or any specific location.

I agree that Desiree was likely trying to imply that Terri was lying.

I look forward to finding out if LE did tell Terri that, if they were telling the truth, and if the ping put Terri in a place other than where she said she was.
 
Anyone with no tech skills and a google android phone can see in plain english where the phone thinks they are.

I posted on some other thread that when I was in Cathlamet about 5-10 miles inland from the Columbia, it thought I was 20 miles away in Clatskanie. That is as the crow flies. It would take me at least an hour, maybe two and a ferry ride to get from one place to the other.

Someone else mentioned when one tower is down or overloaded, the phones will use another local tower to triangulate your position. If you have a smart phone and use the map/my location feature, you can see how this works. I have had it (city or rural) pinpoint my location within 5 meters, 50 meters, or 1500 meters....

I seem to recall coming across cel tower information, and it seemed like if TH was driving Hwy 30, she'd triangulate off the Sauvie Island tower anyway.... Apparently the cel tower information is public record....
 
I seem to recall coming across cel tower information, and it seemed like if TH was driving Hwy 30, she'd triangulate off the Sauvie Island tower anyway.... Apparently the cel tower information is public record....

On a related note...for some reason I remember info that purportedly came from Terri in which she said police told her she had been driving on Highway 30 that morning. I seem to remember thinking that the way it was worded implied her story was that she was not near that area. But I can't find that info anywhere. I thought it was in Terri's e-mails which were made public on August 9th but I just re-watched that KATU story and it's not there. Any help finding this info would be appreciated, maybe I'm just imagining it.
 

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