Timeline Discussion

[sofia76]

Yes but it only takes maybe 10 minutes to get past Scappoose and St. Helens and then you're pretty much clear past Trojan and all the way through Rainier and Clatskanie and on to the coast. She couldn't have gone much past Rainier, but she could have made a loop on a long stretch. I've done that. Or even made a grid on open roads with minimal stops. I've done that too.

Cornelius Pass isn't a terribly windy road, nor is it terribly high. We lived in Hillsboro when we first moved here, and my son's best friend was in W. Scapoose, almost to St. Helens. I drove that road several times a week (and others). I'm pretty familiar with it. It's not a terribly grueling drive, nor is it a sharp elevation change at any point. It's pretty gradual up and down, which is less likely to cause pain.

I totally agree. It's not that these roads are so undeveloped nor is it terribly hilly. The biggest thing I have a question about is how she managed to kill 90 minutes DRIVING. I mean, 90 minutes in Portland outside of rush hour is a LOT of mileage.

 

[stmarysmead]

These are all great questions ... very thorough post detailing all the questions one might have about Terri's drive along back roads with the baby.

I'll play devil's advocate and provide some possible answers that I think are plausible.
-Maybe Terri didn't buy perishables. She may have just run to the store for, say, toothpaste, or a can of cream of mushroom soup, formula, or baby food. Heaven knows I've done that. I usually do my meat/dairy shopping once every two weeks, then do supplemental runs more frequently.
-Maybe the baby didn't have an earache per se, but was just fussy. 18 months is definitely an age where teething happens, and it's not uncommon for them to put their hands on the ears. I've never driven around for 90 minutes trying to soothe a fussy baby, but I have driven around in the car after a fussy baby fell asleep in the car. (But rather than waste gas, I've pulled over into a parking lot or on a residential street to have a phone conversation, read a book, or eat as baby slept.)
-If baby didn't have an earache exactly, but was just fussy/tired/teething, this could explain why she took baby to childcare at the gym without mentioning an earache.
-I've changed many a diaper in the car if I wasn't at a location that had a changing table.
-I don't know if Terri was breastfeeding, but if she were, I know lots of moms who take breastfeeding breaks in the car. Or she could have easily carried snacks with her, and a bottle. At that age, I always took at least one extra bottle with me, even if I were only planning to be out for 20 minutes. You could get stuck in construction traffic, or a bottle could leak, spill open, or be "off" for some reason.

I suspect that Terri probably has a pat answer for everything ... or is just not answering things. And that is why things are not adding up to investigators or Kaine.

This is a great post and each thing by itself is absolutely possible.

But, the thing I keep realizing...is that over and over again, on so many topics, we have to work SO hard to help Terri look innocent.

 

[passionflower]

90 minutes of driving and never stopping???
Diaper change, feeding? I would need a potty break!!
And gas that the truck would eat up!
How many miles to a gallon does that truck use?
ow big is the gas tank?
No fill up?
2 women being absent for 90 minutes........
very 'hinky' to me!!!
and a small boy missing at the same time........2+2=4 JMOO

 

[BeanE]

This is a great post and each thing by itself is absolutely possible.

But, the thing I keep realizing...is that over and over again, on so many topics, we have to work SO hard to help Terri look innocent.

I don't know who you mean by 'we', but I have to work hard to help Terri look guilty, and from my perspective, there's a tremendous amount of speculative assumption that goes on across the threads - indeed across the internet - into helping Terri look guilty.

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't know who you mean by 'we', but I have to work hard to help Terri look guilty, and from my perspective, there's a tremendous amount of speculative assumption that goes on across the threads - indeed across the internet - into helping Terri look guilty.

In my opinion, that speculation does not... begin... in the threads or randomly on the Internet. The Murder-for-Hire assumption comes from a court filing that indicates the police shared that information with Kaine. If they shared it, it is not unfounded speculation to believe they found it credible, is it?

One would not like to think LE would be reckless in breaking up a home and being the basis for information that removes a child from her Mother.

But we could assume it might be so. This is what I mean by "working hard." To disregard this as just some Rogue Lying Landscaper means LE was rather reckless, or so it seems to me.

The "failed polygraph" assumption is one that Kaine and Desiree said came from Terri herself. They might be mistaken, of course. But neither Terri, nor her attorney , nor LE have corrected that.

I guess we could think THAT is a lie too...working hard again to give Terri every benefit.

I suppose Desiree could be lying and Terri is fully cooperating. The witnesses who said Terri's friend left work on the day of the Disappearance might be lying too.

The two different stories from the little classmate of Kyron's might be nothing and only the one that supports Terri might be credible.

The Long Ride and all the things that concern me in my original post may indeed be of no consequence.

But I do not agree that there is NO reason to suspect Terri... and any thoughts to the contrary are just UNFOUNDED (my adjective) speculation.

On a discussion Board, to a certain extent, "speculation" is the intellectual task at hand within reasonable confines. I do not believe I have seen much "unreasoned" speculation on this excellent Board.

But I respect your opinions.

(And, in that friendly spirit, I withdraw my offending pronoun...I am sorry to have used "I.")

 

[rnmif]

90 minutes of driving and never stopping???
Diaper change, feeding? I would need a potty break!!
And gas that the truck would eat up!
How many miles to a gallon does that truck use?
ow big is the gas tank?
No fill up?
2 women being absent for 90 minutes........
very 'hinky' to me!!!
and a small boy missing at the same time........2+2=4 JMOO

My understanding of TH and DDS's missing time is the whole time does not overlap.

 

[Billylee]

Just a note about the failed polygraph. If TH did try to pull off a MFHP, and add to that the possibility she also was being unfaithful before Kaine left the house, I would think that would be enough to make her squirm under the LDT. JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

You're responding to my post, which makes it appear that I made the statement you're disagreeing with, I'd like to note that I said nothing of the sort. Here's what I did say:

Yes.

That is why I made it clear "unfounded" was MY adjective...in fairness to you. And I did quote your post so it would be read first...and right there for anyone to see before my ramblings.

 

[freefallzzzz]

I totally agree. It's not that these roads are so undeveloped nor is it terribly hilly. The biggest thing I have a question about is how she managed to kill 90 minutes DRIVING. I mean, 90 minutes in Portland outside of rush hour is a LOT of mileage.

BBM

Exactly what you said above....

 

[stmarysmead]

It was not clear that I had not said anything like this:




I did not, and have never, said that there is no reason to suspect Terri.

You are correct.

Just to be clear you said:

"

I don't know who you mean by 'we', but I have to work hard to help Terri look guilty."

I regret I did not quote you exactly.

I hope we can just go on with the discussion now and agree to disagree. Perhaps soon there will be more information to give us all more clarity.

 

[debirlfan]

Just one note - I get the feeling that many of the posters here don't like to drive - or at least don't like to drive long distances.

There are those of us who do - if I could afford the gas, I'd be perfectly happy to go out and drive around for a couple hours for no real reason. I recently drove from CT to Ohio (it was my friend's minivan and she would have been more than happy to drive some of the way - but I just enjoy driving). Since TH owns a Mustang, I would assume she probably also likes to drive.

Just saying...

 

[eyes4crime]

This is a great post and each thing by itself is absolutely possible.

But, the thing I keep realizing...is that over and over again, on so many topics, we have to work SO hard to help Terri look innocent.

I find your comment interesting because over and over again on all the different threads, I have to stretch, bend, and make numerous assumptions on each topic so Terri looks guilty, and even after all that trouble I still sit on the fence.

Because she was the last person seen with Kyron, in my mind, does not make her a murderer - at least without more evidence. And if Terri can escape the school unseen with Kyron, so could a seasoned pedophile. moo

The car ride, the earache, the pings, working out, and everything that happened that day has been kneaded over and over again so she looks guilty - it no longer works for me. Sorry. I hope with all my heart Kyron is found and this case ends. It's fallen into the category of 'tabloid' for me, and I can't stand that. moo mho and all that stuff.

 

[stmarysmead]

"The car ride, the earache, the pings, working out, and everything that happened that day has been kneaded over and over again so she looks guilty "

Yes, I would agree with you if that were the entirety of what forms my leaning toward guilt. But that list leaves out the "murder-for-hire" part and the failed polys...and that provides a tipping point off that fence for me.

Especially since the Murder-for-hire part seems to have been credible enough for the police to tell Kaine...and credible enough for him to leave his wife and get a restraining order.

But let me clarify one thing about MY opinion: I would like to be wrong about Terri. I will happily eat crow here or anywhere.

I hope she really has been the truly loving Mother some believe. And continued to always be.

Because one thing I am probably MOST certain about is that Kyron loved Terri. She pretty much raised him. Hers was the face leaning over the bed each night.

I don't like to think of any child... looking up at the face of anyone he loves and seeing something frightening.

So I will defend my point of view and opinions..but on some emotional gut level, I'm hoping to be very wrong.

 

[rnmif]

Just one note - I get the feeling that many of the posters here don't like to drive - or at least don't like to drive long distances.

There are those of us who do - if I could afford the gas, I'd be perfectly happy to go out and drive around for a couple hours for no real reason. I recently drove from CT to Ohio (it was my friend's minivan and she would have been more than happy to drive some of the way - but I just enjoy driving). Since TH owns a Mustang, I would assume she probably also likes to drive.

Just saying...

Yah, for me, it's always been cheaper than therapy.

Often when I'm stressed and can't sleep, rather than toss and turn, I'll get up and go for a drive, listen to music, take a friend and talk, whatever. Less now than when I was young, but I find road trips therapeutic, short or long. Aside from getting cranky little ones to sleep, sometimes I would take them for a drive just because they tend to be quiet in the car, and I can have a little peace.

 

[rnmif]

Especially since the Murder-for-hire part seems to have been credible enough for the police to tell Kaine...and credible enough for him to leave his wife and get a restraining order.

Well, I would think if at that time (still VERY early in the criminal investigation) were leaning towards TH, and found the MFH plot, they would feel honor bound (if not legally required) to tell KH and have him protect himself and K.

However other than one failed sting, which TH reacted to pretty much the way someone who had no idea WTF the accuser was talking about, there hasn't really been much more heat on that. Also, I notice nobody we're aware of being called to the GJ seems related to the MFH plot....

Could mean something, could mean nothing. I'm still pretty much a fence sitter. I don't fall off the fence, I climb carefully onto one side or the other, which is one of the reasons I get accused of being slow and oblivious. I'm not one to rush to judgement.... Or... since I'm such a tortoise my version of "rush" is a thousand fold slower than normal people.

 

[Etilema]

Just one note - I get the feeling that many of the posters here don't like to drive - or at least don't like to drive long distances.

There are those of us who do - if I could afford the gas, I'd be perfectly happy to go out and drive around for a couple hours for no real reason. I recently drove from CT to Ohio (it was my friend's minivan and she would have been more than happy to drive some of the way - but I just enjoy driving). Since TH owns a Mustang, I would assume she probably also likes to drive.

Just saying...

ITA. In fact, I often DO drive around in the country aimlessly for anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours and 30 minutes. And thinking about this obvious hole in TH's story, I actually had the thought that maybe I should be more aware of my aimless driving, or even discontinue it, in case it would ever create an issue for me, Heaven forbid!

 

[Etilema]

My understanding of TH and DDS's missing time is the whole time does not overlap.

Yes, at least according to the timeline that has been described in the media (which may or may not be accurate), TH claims to have been at the gym pretty much during the exact time period that DDS was "missing".

 

[bessie]

Just one note - I get the feeling that many of the posters here don't like to drive - or at least don't like to drive long distances.

There are those of us who do - if I could afford the gas, I'd be perfectly happy to go out and drive around for a couple hours for no real reason. I recently drove from CT to Ohio (it was my friend's minivan and she would have been more than happy to drive some of the way - but I just enjoy driving). Since TH owns a Mustang, I would assume she probably also likes to drive.

Just saying...

Count me among those who enjoy long drives. The problem with Terri's story is that the drive in her case leaves her with ninety unaccounted minutes at just about the time Kyron went missing. Factor in the nasty weather and the excuse that she was driving to soothe a toddler with an earache, and well, it just smells, IMO.

 

[AbbieNormal]

Just one note - I get the feeling that many of the posters here don't like to drive - or at least don't like to drive long distances.

There are those of us who do - if I could afford the gas, I'd be perfectly happy to go out and drive around for a couple hours for no real reason. I recently drove from CT to Ohio (it was my friend's minivan and she would have been more than happy to drive some of the way - but I just enjoy driving). Since TH owns a Mustang, I would assume she probably also likes to drive.

Just saying...

Some people DO love to drive, my hubby is one of those kinds of people. He is a car nut and loves to take one of his "hot cars" out for a ride just for the heck of it.

I have a stick shift Jeep that's a lot of fun to drive. But I am one of those people who sees driving as a means of getting from point A to point B and nothing else. Yes, I enjoy the trip from A to B, but I never go out driving aimlessly for the fun of it, ever.

90 minutes of driving is a lot, IMO. Maybe she did get non-perishables at the grocery store, but I am still not beleiving the driving-to-soothe-an-earache story. Then a trip to the gym? Was baby K's earache problem cured from the drive? I call BS.

IMO doesn't make sense, doesn't add up, she's been said to be a known liar, and there are too many other things like sexting, two phones, taking truck to pick up science project but not picking it up, MFH plot, not fighting to get her baby girl from her hubby when he took her, then the plot to try to snatch baby K from gym daycare next time Kaine came in, telling friends to not cooperate w/ LE, asking someone to lie to her atty (was it asking MC to lie? Can't remember)etc etc that knocked me off the fence a long time ago....
Also asking someone to lie to her atty tells me in my own way of thinking that shes probably been a lot less than honest w/ her atty as well. I think that, like Casey Anthony, shes going to sit clammed up and not utter a peep.
No plea deals, no confessions or even any half-truths or mistruths from her, she is just going to say NOTHING fro now on. JMO of course.

 

[sherbetjello]

In my opinion, that speculation does not... begin... in the threads or randomly on the Internet. The Murder-for-Hire assumption comes from a court filing that indicates the police shared that information with Kaine. If they shared it, it is not unfounded speculation to believe they found it credible, is

But we could assume it might be so. This is what I mean by "working hard." To disregard this as just some Rogue Lying Landscaper means LE was rather reckless, or so it seems to me.


The "failed polygraph" assumption is one that Kaine and Desiree said came from Terri herself. They might be mistaken, of course. But neither Terri, nor her attorney , nor LE have corrected that.

The murder for hire is a she said, he said. If they had SOLID evidence she would be in jail. That is a crime.
Also, there is a HUGE reason why polys are not allowed as evidence in a trial.