Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[MsMarple]

They did. Reported to Coastguard involved in the search.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/22/us/submersible-titanic-oceangate-search-thursday/index.html

Thanks for the link! So the Incident Commander was a Coast Guard officer.

I’ll amend my earlier question: Did the Coast Guard alert the Polar Prince captain about the possible implosion and if so, when?

 

[Erutan]

19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says

In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean, the 19-year-old expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said in an interview.

www.yahoo.com

Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he “wasn’t very up for it” and felt “terrified” about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.

But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate’s 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father’s Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.

What a nice young man !
I feel the worst about him, and at that age he'd be so dependent on the wisdom of the adults around him.

 

[Erutan]

Thanks for the link! So the Incident Commander was a Coast Guard officer.

I’ll amend my earlier question: Did the Coast Guard alert the Polar Prince captain about the possible implosion and if so, when?

Good question. ^^^

If they knew in advance, there was no need for the costly rescue and prolonging the families' worries, correct ?
There'd still be a recovery, but experienced ocean scientists and naval people would have a good idea about the condition of the passengers and the submersible as well.
Imo.

 

[10ofRods]

This entire situation is a bit confusing, did they consider the craft a "passenger" sub? Or did they consider the sub a private craft, for "explorers" and employees of OceanGate? Is that way there was no review of safety procedures?

I think Rush played it however he wanted, depending on what it got for him.

It was never registered or rated as a "passenger" submersible. The licensing agency actually reached out to OceanGate to point out they were *not* meeting regulatory requirements for carrying people.

It was a private, DIY, never registered, never purchased, put together from various components by the pilot. It would not be legal to fly it out of any airport in the US, if it were a plane. But since it was just dangling from a registered Canadian craft, it was okay.

The people who agreed to get inside probably knew none of these issues (and probably wouldn't have cared if they did). <modsnip>

The CEO said in an interview with Smithsonian that "safety" interferes with "innovation" (meaning that every one should get to do what they want and build their own vehicles).

<modsnips: not victim friendly and off topic>

IMO.

 

[JennieM]

I thought the Navy heard the implosion first? They would have then reported it to OG?

US Navy detected implosion on Sunday and relayed information to search efforts, official says​

From CNN's Oren Liebermann

The US Navy detected an acoustic signature consistent with an implosion on Sunday in the general area where the Titan submersible was diving in the North Atlantic when it lost communication with its support ship, according to a senior Navy official.

The Navy immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, the official said Thursday, adding that information was used to narrow down the area of the search.

But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort.

“Any chance of saving a life is worth continuing the mission,” the official said.

The Wall Street Journal was the first to report about the acoustic signature picked up by the Navy.
Audio of the implosion was picked up by a network of sensors as part of an underwater Navy acoustic listening system, said the official, who declined to go into more detail about the secret system. The network of sensors allowed the Navy to zero-in on a possible location of the noise, providing search teams with a more refined area.

The Navy also helped analyze the audio signatures of banging and other acoustic data that were heard throughout the search efforts. Those were likely some form of natural life or sounds given off by other ships and vessels that were part of the search effort, the official said.

June 22, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

The Titanic-bound submersible that went missing on Sunday with five people on board suffered a "catastrophic implosion," killing everyone on board, officials said Thursday.

edition.cnn.com

 

[JennieM]

Good question. ^^^

If they knew in advance, there was no need for the costly rescue and prolonging the families' worries, correct ?
There'd still be a recovery, but experienced ocean scientists and naval people would have a good idea about the condition of the passengers and the submersible as well.
Imo.

'But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort.'

June 22, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

The Titanic-bound submersible that went missing on Sunday with five people on board suffered a "catastrophic implosion," killing everyone on board, officials said Thursday.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Sundog]

Statement from our Principal | University of Strathclyde

www.strath.ac.uk

"I feel disbelief," Azmeh said, speaking through sobs. "It's an unreal situation."

"I feel like I've been caught in a really bad film, with a countdown, but you didn't know what you're counting down to," she said. "I personally have found it kind of difficult to breathe thinking of them."

"I never thought I would have an issue with drawing breath," she added. "It's been unlike any experience I've ever had."

Azmeh and Shahzada are scions of one of the most prominent corporate dynasties in Pakistan. The family’s namesake business empire, Dawood Hercules Corp., has investments in agriculture, the health sector and other industries.

Shahzada was the vice chairman of the Karachi-based Engro Corporation and an adviser to Prince’s Trust International, a charitable organization founded by King Charles III.

In recent years, Azmeh had fallen out of touch with Shahzada. ​

She was diagnosed with primary progressive multiple sclerosis in 2014 and "reduced to being in a wheelchair." She and her husband decided to move from England to Amsterdam so she would have easier access to medicinal cannabis.

19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says

Azmeh Dawood, the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, said her nephew was reluctant to go on the Titan expedition.

www.nbcnews.com

I wish the media would leave these grief-stricken family members alone. It is now a private matter, and asking them to give interviews as they process their grief is unconscionable, IMO. Perhaps they will delegate a family spokesperson to help with the media demands.

Keeping them in my prayers, each of the families, as they grieve their immense losses.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672059733287776256

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I'm possibly alone on this, but after thinking about it some more I do believe the carbon fiber hull could have shown warning signs of failure rather than suffering an instant rupture. Most pressure hulls are made from solid steel or titanium. Cracks are rare, but any crack usually opens very suddenly; that's where most of the knowledge about such failures comes from.

This carbon fiber design is new and seemingly untested. There's no frame of reference for how a failure would manifest.

Poorly applied layers of carbon fiber could result in voids that would be invisible to the naked eye. Only a proper scan of the hull (which apparently wasn't done to Titan) would reveal that. The layers of carbon fiber could also potentlally delaminate, flaking apart like the layers of pastry in a croissant. There also could have been a crack that only ran through a few layers: lets say a crack ran through 2 inches of the five-inch thick hull, but the other three inches were intact.

Under those circumstances it is, theoretically, possible that the hull would have retained enough integrity to survive a little while before finally failing completely.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It is disgusting. Perhaps they think Christine Dawood feels less pain than they would just because she is rich? Perhaps they also think their comments cannot be seen or heard by the families?

Thank you to WS, Tricia, and the Mods for insisting on respectful discussions and kindness.

These threads are outstanding in terms of information and sensitivity to the victims. Thank you to everyone for contributing to making it that way, I learned a great deal.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

Good question. ^^^

If they knew in advance, there was no need for the costly rescue and prolonging the families' worries, correct ?
There'd still be a recovery, but experienced ocean scientists and naval people would have a good idea about the condition of the passengers and the submersible as well.
Imo.

“The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.

But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort. “Any chance of saving a life is worth continuing the mission,” the official said.”
Link

They determined the sound was not definitive and made the decision to continue with search and rescue. They didn’t give up. They were able to find debris, and then made the conclusion. Seems logical to me.

 

[LinasK]

I'm possibly alone on this, but after thinking about it some more I do believe the carbon fiber hull could have shown warning signs of failure rather than suffering an instant rupture. Most pressure hulls are made from solid steel or titanium. Cracks are rare, but any crack usually opens very suddenly; that's where most of the knowledge about such failures comes from.

This carbon fiber design is new and seemingly untested. There's no frame of reference for how a failure would manifest.

Poorly applied layers of carbon fiber could result in voids that would be invisible to the naked eye. Only a proper scan of the hull (which apparently wasn't done to Titan) would reveal that. The layers of carbon fiber could also potentlally delaminate, flaking apart like the layers of pastry in a croissant. There also could have been a crack that only ran through a few layers: lets say a crack ran through 2 inches of the five-inch thick hull, but the other three inches were intact.

Under those circumstances it is, theoretically, possible that the hull would have retained enough integrity to survive a little while before finally failing completely.

You aren't alone. My husband had similar thoughts about the Carbon Fiber and the direction it has strength. He told me that it's strong when stretched, not compressed. (His qualifications are that he has a degree in Mechanical Engineering, we've toured 6 submarines, and he has toyed with designing a submersible).

 

[JennieM]

Expert describes how robots and other machinery will help recover Titan wreckage​

A single vessel, if properly equipped, and remotely controlled vehicles on the seafloor would likely be capable of recovering the wreckage of the Titan submersible, Capt. Mark Martin, a salvage master and deep submergence pilot, said Thursday.

The ship would need a crane with a wire that can reach a depth of 4,000 meters (about 2 and a half miles), which can be found on many vessels involved in offshore gas and oil construction, Martin said in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper.

Recovery crews will also need one or two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, which have already played a key role in the search for signs of Titan, the captain said. The ROVs are large, powerful machines that can be controlled from the vessel above them.

The ROVs will work in concert with the crane to scoop pieces of the sub into large "recovery baskets," which Martin said look like half of a shipping container made of mesh.

ROVs will pick up pieces with their arms and move them into baskets, or help attach pieces to straps for the crane, which will lift pieces to the surface, he said.

June 22, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

The Titanic-bound submersible that went missing on Sunday with five people on board suffered a "catastrophic implosion," killing everyone on board, officials said Thursday.

edition.cnn.com

 

[JennieM]

4m
John Nathanial Paschall, stepson of famed French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet says he “thought nothing of it” in the lead up to the trip owing to his step-father’s past experience visiting the wreck of the Titanic.

Speaking to MSNBC, Paschall said he and other families have been shocked by the news of the fate of the Titan.

We’ve been living a nightmare this week. I think that goes for all the families. We can speak about PH but it has been truly is a nightmare of an experience. And I hope no one ever has to go through it again.

Paschall remembered his Nargeolet as a “really great step-father to me” with a big heart, a great sense of humour and a love of pranks.

There are so many ways I was just blown away by his love and care for me.

The ocean, Paschall said, was his step-father’s “home away from home”.

It was so cool. He talked about it so much, I almost became numb to it, in a way because of how much he talked about it. Oh, another expedition you get to go on. That’s so cool. But he was just such an inspiration in terms of the amount of work he put in and his fearlessness with everything.

His big question for OceanGate however was: Were the safety procedures followed as close as possible? Was anything going on?

US navy says it picked up ‘anomaly’ hours after sub began mission – as it happened

Anomaly ‘consistent with an implosion’ was detected near where craft was operating when it lost communications

www.theguardian.com

Emphasis is mine.

 

[Erutan]

'But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort.'

June 22, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

The Titanic-bound submersible that went missing on Sunday with five people on board suffered a "catastrophic implosion," killing everyone on board, officials said Thursday.

edition.cnn.com

Ah, ok.
Thanks for clarifying !

 

[mickey2942]

These threads are outstanding in terms of information and sensitivity to the victims. Thank you to everyone for contributing to making it that way, I learned a great deal.

Yeah, I saw the presser earlier, and one of the reporters asked about verification of the deceased. I could tell that the Coast Guard guy...was sort of caught off guard...he didn't want to say anything in response to that question. The reporter wanted to know the status of the bodies...really?!

 

[cuffem]

Expert describes how robots and other machinery will help recover Titan wreckage​

A single vessel, if properly equipped, and remotely controlled vehicles on the seafloor would likely be capable of recovering the wreckage of the Titan submersible, Capt. Mark Martin, a salvage master and deep submergence pilot, said Thursday.

The ship would need a crane with a wire that can reach a depth of 4,000 meters (about 2 and a half miles), which can be found on many vessels involved in offshore gas and oil construction, Martin said in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper.

Recovery crews will also need one or two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, which have already played a key role in the search for signs of Titan, the captain said. The ROVs are large, powerful machines that can be controlled from the vessel above them.

The ROVs will work in concert with the crane to scoop pieces of the sub into large "recovery baskets," which Martin said look like half of a shipping container made of mesh.

ROVs will pick up pieces with their arms and move them into baskets, or help attach pieces to straps for the crane, which will lift pieces to the surface, he said.

June 22, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

The Titanic-bound submersible that went missing on Sunday with five people on board suffered a "catastrophic implosion," killing everyone on board, officials said Thursday.

edition.cnn.com

With the technology today we send robotics into dangerous places while a pilot is in a safe location. Nuclear reactors, drones in war, exploring other planets, bomb squads etc.

With online cams I can watch eagles nests without disturbing them, I can watch locations all over the world and go on adventures I could never afford nor have the physical conditions to do. I can do these things without leaving a footprint on protected areas. I can even dive the shipwrecks of the deep seas with better imagery than a tiny portal.

 

[Cindizzi]

 

[10ofRods]

If the us navy heard the implosion that was consistent with the last known area of the sub, as were now suddenly hearing, and they reported this immediately to the coast guard, what was the need for all the planes?l searching the size of Connecticut?
What was the need for the requests of various governments for more ships to the area? Ive got to echo james Cameron’s thoughts here and say it seems like a prolonged charade.

I don't think that's how it went down.

I think they went back and looked at their sound files once the event had occurred.

ICBW. Open to correction.

IMO.

No one was paying attention to that tiny sector of the Atlantic at the exact point in time when the Titan stopped responding.

IMO. The Navy found the facts after it went missing (although it could have been reported as an anomaly in the Titanic sector).

 

[acutename]

I think Rush played it however he wanted, depending on what it got for him.

It was never registered or rated as a "passenger" submersible. The licensing agency actually reached out to OceanGate to point out they were *not* meeting regulatory requirements for carrying people.

It was a private, DIY, never registered, never purchased, put together from various components by the pilot. It would not be legal to fly it out of any airport in the US, if it were a plane. But since it was just dangling from a registered Canadian craft, it was okay.

The people who agreed to get inside probably knew none of these issues (and probably wouldn't have cared if they did). <modsnip>

The CEO said in an interview with Smithsonian that "safety" interferes with "innovation" (meaning that every one should get to do what they want and build their own vehicles).

<modsnips: not victim friendly and off topic>

IMO.

what I find weird is that Mr. Rush was a pilot (at 19!)

What We Know About Stockton Rush, OceanGate CEO. Rush, 61, graduated from Princeton in 1984 with a degree in aerospace engineering. He had become the world's youngest jet-transport rated pilot at age 19, and went on to build his own Glasair III experimental aircraft in '89—the same year he earned an MBA from U.C.7 hours ago

Pilot of Missing Titanic Sub Told Us Why He Kept Going Back​

and successful pilots are usually oriented towards safety checks and attention to mechanical systems- you cannot successfully fly planes without attention to weather and maintenance....so he was IMO very lucky his whole life or what he was doing with this Titan was kind of out of character. He was a mechanical engineer, not some one with resources and no brains... just odd.