Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[JDG]

I'm going to link another New York Times article explaining what the Navy found:



The key words here, IMO, are "an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion".

Even though said anomaly happened in the vicinity of the Titan, and it happened around the time the Titan lost communication, confirmation of the debris absolutely had to be done. Period.

The authorities may have been 99.9% certain there would be no rescue; they may have been prepared for a search- and recovery-effort from the get-go.

But, without verifying the debris, can you image how the families would have reacted? Forever wondering if their loved ones perished?

Speaking for myself, I would want debris confirmation.

ETA: I am sitting on my hands regarding Mr. Cameron's opinion!

Secret Navy sensors detected a possible implosion around the time the Titan’s communications failed..

JMVHO.

Intentionally or not, it also gave the families time to adjust a bit before it all hit the media.

Im sure they would have been told that they were looking for debris with no hope for their loved ones survival.

I agree with you re: wanting proof of debris. You’ve got to know for sure.

 

[gitana1]

The US Navy detected an acoustic signature consistent with an implosion on Sunday in the general area where the Titanic-bound submersible was diving when it lost communication with its mother ship, a senior Navy official told CNN.

The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.

But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort. “Any chance of saving a life is worth continuing the mission,” the official said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/22/us/submersible-titanic-oceangate-search-thursday/index.html#:~:text=The%20Navy%20detected%20an%20acoustic,senior%20Navy%20official%20told%20CNN.

How could that have been immediate when there was no search until after 6:26 pm?

 

[gitana1]

How is going on a tourist trip to see the Titanic wreck a "worthy cause"? I feel sympathy for them and their family and friends, but it was an adventure trip, done for a thrill.

I guess because it funds further development and exploration? I think ocean exploration is as important or more so as space exploration.

But for me, taking tourists in something that is new in the industry (the carbon fiber hull) and hasn’t been similarly tested as other vessels have, shouldn’t have happened.

 

[SouthAussie]

How could that have been immediate when there was no search until after 6:26 pm?

I believe they looked back at data (from the time of the last known communication) and then heard the implosion. They didn't hear it in real time.
Kind of like going back and looking at phone communications to sort out what happened around the time of a crime.


In a statement to the Journal, a US navy official said: “The US Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost.”

Titanic submersible search as it happened: Titan debris found, shows ‘catastrophic loss of pressure’, US Coast Guard says

The search for the missing submersible has culminated in the discovery of vessel debris following a catastrophic implosion. All five passengers are confirmed dead.

www.theage.com.au

 

[gitana1]

top secret military acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard what the U.S. Navy suspected was the Titan submersible implosion hours after the submersible began its voyage, officials involved in the search said.

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance Sunday, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago

Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first heard the suspected implosion just hours after the submersible began its voyage.

www.wsj.com

Was it you or @PrairieWind who previously said that the military would have the ability to hear things underwater at that depth but wouldn’t revela it because of military secrets? Spot on.

 

[gitana1]

I believe they looked back at data (from the time of the last known communication) and then heard the implosion. They didn't hear it in real time.
Kind of like going back and looking at phone communications to sort out what happened around the time of a crime.


In a statement to the Journal, a US navy official said: “The US Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost.”

Titanic submersible search as it happened: Titan debris found, shows ‘catastrophic loss of pressure’, US Coast Guard says

The search for the missing submersible has culminated in the discovery of vessel debris following a catastrophic implosion. All five passengers are confirmed dead.

www.theage.com.au

Oh!!! Ok. That makes perfect sense.

 

[gitana1]

I imagine they will be found liable.

Yeah. I mean this even if this wasn’t their only vessel, their founder and designer hadn’t died, and now one else would agree to fund future trips, lawsuits would destroy them.

But I don’t think there’s going to be anything much left to take.

That business is done. IMO.

 

[Gardenista]

I don't think the Navy Sensors are secret because in another group I am in, on the day Titan went missing, people were posting about the implosion picked up by the Navy. They had screenshots showing the movement in that area of the ocean, picked up at the time communication was lost. Apparently there is a website that monitors and posts all the abnormal movements in the ocean. Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the website, but the info about the what the Navy picked up was definitely out there the day they went missing.

I also saw talk about it on twitter the first day. So I came right here and asked if ocean sounds are monitored by the military and was told it was true. I couldn't post a link though because it was just random twitter people, but they did sound like they knew what they were talking about.

 

[gitana1]

19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says

In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean, the 19-year-old expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said in an interview.

www.yahoo.com

Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he “wasn’t very up for it” and felt “terrified” about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.

But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate’s 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father’s Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.

She apparently hasn’t been in touch with her brother in years. I’m taking this with a grain of salt. I don’t think it’s likely the CEO or Nargeolet would have let a terrified 19 year old on that vessel. Because they’d be stuck with him for 8-10 hours and that could be bad for everyone.

 

[Charlot123]

And, it's not as if the person who owned this vessel simply charged money for the excursion and waited on dry land for their return... he was on it.

The loss of life is sad for all.

Yes. Today, it is RIP.

It shouldn’t prevent people from discussing the mistakes made in the process of producing the Titan, and the expedition

What a nice young man !
I feel the worst about him, and at that age he'd be so dependent on the wisdom of the adult around him.

Yes, I feel the worst for him, too. I assumed that he shared the same hobby with the father and experienced the explorer's thrill, but it might be that he was not even into the Titanic, just a loving son.

The others, probably, considered the risks they took being worthy of the pioneers' thrill. I still don't believe they were fully aware of the reality of the trip, though.

i feel very sorry for all the victims' families. They are all grieving, they lost their closest relatives. My special thoughts are about the family of Suleiman and Shahzada Dawood.

Titanic sub tragedy: Dawood family expresses gratitude amid tragic loss

The family of Shahzada Dawood, a Pakistani-born businessman, and his 19-year-old son Suleman, released a heartfelt message expressing their profound gratitude to all those involved in the rescue...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[MassGuy]

Was it you or @PrairieWind who previously said that the military would have the ability to hear things underwater at that depth but wouldn’t revela it because of military secrets? Spot on.

I’d love to take credit. I’m actually blown away by this capability

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm possibly alone on this, but after thinking about it some more I do believe the carbon fiber hull could have shown warning signs of failure rather than suffering an instant rupture. Most pressure hulls are made from solid steel or titanium. Cracks are rare, but any crack usually opens very suddenly; that's where most of the knowledge about such failures comes from.

This carbon fiber design is new and seemingly untested. There's no frame of reference for how a failure would manifest.

Poorly applied layers of carbon fiber could result in voids that would be invisible to the naked eye. Only a proper scan of the hull (which apparently wasn't done to Titan) would reveal that. The layers of carbon fiber could also potentlally delaminate, flaking apart like the layers of pastry in a croissant. There also could have been a crack that only ran through a few layers: lets say a crack ran through 2 inches of the five-inch thick hull, but the other three inches were intact.

Under those circumstances it is, theoretically, possible that the hull would have retained enough integrity to survive a little while before finally failing completely.

No I also feel that it's possible there was enough time to know that they were going to die
Even if it was just seconds.

I'm not convinced that they didn't have even a second of fear

 

[AliceInPain]

No I also feel that it's possible there was enough time to know that they were going to die
Even if it was just seconds.

I'm not convinced that they didn't have even a second of fear

Imagine that one second, especially for the boy, not an experienced explorer.
It's been hurting my stomach since I saw somewhere he wasn't looking forward to this trip.
I don't know how quick "quick" is, or what's less than a second but I'm hoping that was it, just a tiny bit of noise and poof gone.

 

[d0lphin]

No I also feel that it's possible there was enough time to know that they were going to die
Even if it was just seconds.

I'm not convinced that they didn't have even a second of fear

I think that in the case of tragedies, authorities often say that victims did not know that they were going to die (when they may have known), as it's kinder to the relatives to hear that.
IMHO

 

[SouthAussie]

A submarine expert, Prof Fusil, says that the implosion would have "happened within 20 milliseconds".

That the hull was made of two opposing forces. Titanium which is very elastic, and composite carbon fibre material which is very stiff.


Professor Fusil said it's an "experimental technology" and it was too early to tell whether that design caused the issues.
What we know about the 'catastrophic implosion' that killed five men aboard the Titanic submersible

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It takes 500 milliseconds, or half a second, for sensory information from the outside world to be incorporated into conscious experience.19 Dec 2016

how fast is a human thought - Google Search

So perhaps there wasn't enough time to feel frightened.

 

[arielilane]

James Cameron says Titan submersible passengers likely had warning just before implosion

'Titanic' director James Cameron says that OceanGate's Titan submersible deaths are ‘impossible to process’ and that passengers were likely warned just before implosion.

www.latimes.com

JUNE 22, 2023 6:36 PM PT

[…]
“For us, it’s a very similar tragedy where warnings went unheeded. To take place at the same exact site with all the diving that’s going on all around the world, I think it’s just astonishing. It’s really quite surreal.”

The Times obtained the 2018 letter privately written to Stockton Rush, the chief executive of OceanGate, who was among those who died in the implosion. The manned underwater vehicles committee at the Marine Technology Society wrote to Rush, stressing the need for a third-party safety review of OceanGate’s submersibles.

 

[SouthAussie]

James Cameron says Titan submersible passengers likely had warning just before implosion

'Titanic' director James Cameron says that OceanGate's Titan submersible deaths are ‘impossible to process’ and that passengers were likely warned just before implosion.

www.latimes.com

JUNE 22, 2023 6:36 PM PT

[…]
“For us, it’s a very similar tragedy where warnings went unheeded. To take place at the same exact site with all the diving that’s going on all around the world, I think it’s just astonishing. It’s really quite surreal.”

The Times obtained the 2018 letter privately written to Stockton Rush, the chief executive of OceanGate, who was among those who died in the implosion. The manned underwater vehicles committee at the Marine Technology Society wrote to Rush, stressing the need for a third-party safety review of OceanGate’s submersibles.

So, they probably had a warning. Perhaps they could hear creaking of the structure, as well as whatever noise the sensors made - if they made a noise.

From your link:
“This OceanGate sub had sensors on the inside of a hull to give them a warning when it was starting to crack,” he told ABC News. “And I think if that’s your idea of safety, then you’re doing it wrong. They probably had warning that their hull was starting to delaminate, starting to crack. ... [W]e understand from inside the community that they had dropped their ascent weights and they were coming up, trying to manage an emergency.”

 

[iamshadow21]

Into the 'midnight zone': Here's what happens when you go as deep as the Titanic wreck

Pretty nifty graphic/article/presentation created by ABC News Australia. I really like these style of articles when they do them. Sometimes they contain bits of video or photographs that change like a slideshow the further you scroll - this one just gets darker and darker and the pressure gauge rises.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

As the rescuers are still trying to recreate the vessel's final moments, several videos with spine-chilling visual representations have emerged, claiming to show what an implosion looks like.

Among these clips is an old YouTube video of a railroad tanker abruptly collapsing, showing that such an implosion happens quickly.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671956820208877578

Titanic Sub: Spine-Chilling Videos Showing What Implosion Looks Like Surface On Social Media

Among these clips is an old YouTube video of a railroad tanker abruptly collapsing, showing that such an implosion happens quickly.

www.indiatimes.com